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Let’s talk about about DS buff
With the current state of Decisive Strike where it's only a 3 second stun, good survivors knows that it is still a great perk, we understand it only means we need to path somewhere with resources we can work with after the stun. Raising the stun duration to 5 seconds only limits survivor skill expression by making the escape guaranteed, specially against weaker killers but really it's just a huge time waste for your team to rush gens.
A common misconception is that as a survivor you have a right to not be tunneled, with my own experience I can't count how many times I've watched ttv survivors literally report me for tunneling as if it's a bannable offense and have hate mails/threats sent to me for tunneling all the while I have never BM'ed (it's a waste of time not spent on pressuring gens). You are not entitled to the killer not continuing to pursue you after you've been unhooked, and anti tunneling perks and basekits are not a birth right as much as they're starting to appear to be.
Remember the very first meta shake up that had very positive impact as far as survivor builds finally having some diversity? Well prepare to see DS on every survivor in every game. Because this patch is the great flood on everything that’s good and holy and DS is the only passenger on Noah’s ark.
You know how killer’s “meta” builds are basically 4 gen slow downs? Well this is the survivor equivalent of that
but you don’t see survivors running this or is even considered meta, why?
Now imagine killers have the opposite equivalent of “DS, OTR, DH, Adrenaline” basically 4 perks to ensure you can tunnel out a survivor. Oh ya and now imagine the killer have that times 4, that’s survivor meta for you.
Comments
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Prove is not good lol.
Tunneling isn't good for the game, it can't be solved via perks.
DS has a shorter stun time than listed due to the animation. It's something around 1.5 seconds; which is literally nothing.
Killers already have that meta build. It's called stacking four slowdowns (stronger than Survivor perks, by design) and then tunneling someone out immediately.
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I'm trying to formulate a response but I literally can't even.
All I'll say is, the existence of DS will just encourage killers to go for Grim Embrace/Pain Res value. Don't think it's gonna be a super huge deal.
Tunneling has been out of control ever since Attack on Titan came, and Survivors are over it. Something had to give.
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”prove is not good lol” , an opinion, subjective
“tunneling isn’t good for the game” an opinion, subjective and differs based on the situation presented“Can’t be solved via perks” but a killer tunneling someone with ds otr dh basically just loses way too much time so he goes to the next guy, oh looky he also has ds otr dh, next guy, next guy, next guy, oops the gens are all gone? Prime example is Momoseventh losing his 1900+ blight win streak because everyone had otr ds (and that’s with the 3 seconds ds for future readers)
killer perks has to be “stronger, by design” because survivors 16 perks while the killer has only 42 -
Prove isn't even decent unless you are all stacking on a final gen, in which case other perks do it better. Saying that's subjective is like you saying, "Shattered Hope is not good" and then me saying, "That's an opinion actually, the perk is good!"
Momo lost because he threw. He didn't take them seriously and he got complacent. If you have multiple people with DS and OTR up, YOU ARE WINNING THE GAME. DH is bad, any perk that relies on ping is fundamentally bad.
Yes, obviously they need to be somewhat stronger by design.
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Current DS definitely isn't a "great" perk. It barely gives you time to do anything before the killer can resume the chase, and if you combine that with the severe lack of resources some maps have then there is little you can actually do if the killer wants you out of the as soon as possible.
No one expects a complete immunity to the killer after being hooked, but it is reasonable to expect a way to fight back.
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"A common misconception is that as a survivor you have a right to not be tunneled"
And killers don't have an inalienable right to tunnel.
DS is the most easily circumvented perk in the entire game. If you don't want to get hit by that five second stun, you can simply choose not to.
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- first of all, no way you just compared prove to shattered hope, you see a boon maybe once in 15 games and you waste a perk slot to “counter it” when they can just put it on another totem which you then have to waste time destroying again but there are 7 generators in every game and 4 survivors chances are likely there’ll be times where two are doubled up on a gen and if you think gen progression perks aren’t viable and not worth running then don’t worry about gen regression perks.
2. I watched his stream, him reviewing the game and his after thoughts. He was giving it his all. Let’s be real here, a comp team having ds otr on each and everyone of the survivor is an unwinnable game for even the top tier comp killers, that’s why in competitive settings there are rules implemented. And no way Momo would’ve lost if they didn’t all have ds otr, and I know you at least know that.
3. “Dh is bad” another opinion that’s subjective. Definition of the word subjective from Oxford language dictionary : based on or influenced by personal feelings, tastes, or opinions.4. Thank you for agreeing. If you somehow debated with me on that that’d be concerning
1 - first of all, no way you just compared prove to shattered hope, you see a boon maybe once in 15 games and you waste a perk slot to “counter it” when they can just put it on another totem which you then have to waste time destroying again but there are 7 generators in every game and 4 survivors chances are likely there’ll be times where two are doubled up on a gen and if you think gen progression perks aren’t viable and not worth running then don’t worry about gen regression perks.
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”fight back” okay at this point just introduce pistols as an item and just shoot the killer because the initial idea from the devs were that the killers are threats and inflict fear in survivor to create a horror atmosphere.
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I don't mean "fight back" in the literal sense of actually fighting against the killer. What I mean is that there must be a way for you to not be rendered helpless if the killer just wants you out of the game as soon as possible.
DS fills that role perfectly, or it did when it had a 5 seconds stun time.
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"A common misconception is that as a survivor you have a right to not be tunneled."
Something about the way this statement is written is so funny to me. DBD is a video game, not a bill of rights.
It feels bad when you're playing a game and get taken out early, nobody wants to be the first one bankrupt in Monopoly. DBD's design just so happens to make it so that getting a player out of the match early is extremely advantageous for killer whilst feeling extremely bad as survivor because depending on the gen count, you know your comrades aren't going to be very far behind you.
Nobody has a right not to be tunneled, but we're all playing the same game here. Unless it's a necessary strat for the killer to do or the survivor is asking for it (seriously Nea Ormond is a big map and you're sitting injured behind a rock like the last three times you went for a Flash bang save), I don't see what most players get out of it.
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ya I wrote it like that because some survivors really enforce the no tunneling rule like it’s written on the constitution. But with playing the survivor role, you have to understand you’re one of four and your lifespan in the game isn’t of value in the grand scheme of things and the killer is supposed to have enough power to tunnel you out early, by no means am I saying to just stand there and let them go for you for free, but the value you bring to your team increases as the time you build for them to complete the objective increases. Creating perks and basekit mechanics to limit the killer choices and survivor skill expression is lowering the skill ceiling for the game as a whole, meaning both sides are becoming easier and easier
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If you think the perk is weak against S tiers or something like that, that's okay. But to say that DS isn't a great perk is just wrong. It's so weird to me that some players seem to have this misconception and I wonder if that's what led to it being buffed in the first place. It's comfortably meta right now even with the 3 second stun. It had to get nerfed from 5 seconds, so it's odd to me that they opted to revert the stun time to 5 seconds instead of changing it to 4 first.
In my opinion, the way to buff DS (if it even needs a buff) is to make it give 10 or 15 seconds of endurance when it's used. It would barely change how it works against low tier killers, but would make it much stronger against S tiers.
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so like a 15 seconds styptic? Making them able to make cross map distance before you can hit them or if you hit them you sit through the weapon wipe animation and have to catch up with them after the speed burst of being hit. Isn’t that just 5 seconds ds stun with more steps?
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good survivors knows that it is still a great perk … stoped reading there, cause thats obviously wrong.
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Nah, it is pretty weak. 3 seconds doesn't give you nearly enough time, especially with the animation and the lack of resources some maps have.
Going back to 5 seconds is absolutely justified, imho.
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""good survivors knows that it is still a great perk" stopped reading here. guilt tripping people to agree with your opinion means your opinion is trash. Talk about entitlement.
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The new DS will allow survivors to get away from top-tier killers like Blight and Spirit (sans Nurse) after being tunneled in order to run towards a tile that'll allow them to waste the killer's time for more DS value. It'll properly punish every other killer for tunneling.
DBD should not be balanced around tunneling, so hopefully Decisive Strike entering the meta again will combat that. Reporting for tunneling is undeniably petty, but don't be surprised that people are being upset for a playstyle that is notoriously annoying and unfun to play against.
On the topic of the gen speed builds, there are perks to combat against those currently in the meta. Plenty of variety too: Pain Resonance, PGTW, Dead Man's Switch, the new Grim Embrace, and Surge. On the other hand, there isn't much to consistently counter tunneling. Off the Record can be immediately consumed by just hitting the unhooked survivor and then tunneling them out as they get no value out of OtR. Made for This, a perk not even intended to be anti-tunnel, is unreliable against killers that wait out the Endurance. That's two inconsistent anti-tunnel perks, and five reliable gen slowdown perks.
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What? DS is comfortably meta at the moment. It's an S tier perk already, so that's why it's strange to see it getting buffs
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DS was kinda meta pre-nerf, but still sucked at doing what it should do. atm its far away from meta.
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the same statement was made by the best most well-known players in the competitive/content creating community. The statement simply implies that there’s a skill difference between players and the players at a higher mmr or overall understanding of the game have a better understanding of how to get value from the perk compared to the lower mmr survivors. Which isn’t a bad thing it’s just real life but it shows that buffing it in the sake of the lower mmr survivors will only make it more abusable by the higher ones. Hopes this explanation suited you well enough that you didn’t choose to stop reading not even half way in, I understand reading things you don’t agree with isn’t the easiest but it’s the way to find communicate and hopefully find common ground
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I mean if you knew how to count how long it actually works would be a start its a 2 second perk 1 second is used jumping off the killers back.
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I brought up the gen slowdown meta for killer as a mirror to show that the survivor equivalent of that (a gen speed/progression) build isn’t meta so why is a killer’s
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I can tell you dont play much survivor. Its meta lol? Its only use is not to get tunneled out of the game for new players in 2 min of a game and you still have to use 3 perk slots dh and otr to make it even viable lol.
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Less than that, it’s like 1.4 seconds
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Current ds was never s tier thats just cope
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DS is maybe B-tier against someone like Trapper and F-tier against any Killer higher than B-tier.
This DS won't be much better, but it's something I suppose.
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let's settle to disagree. The points you have brought up come out of thin air and does not match my experience with this game, or the streamers i had occasionally watched playing. I also don't like arguing with people who pretend to have a good point but all they have laid out are logical traps to derail every other point about the topic at hand.
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I don't like the DS change because it's just moving backwards.
It was changed because it was meta, highly used. It's the anti-tunnel solution, and it's behind a paywall. All these problems are coming back with this change. Survivors will probably start using it offensively again, like forcing a wesker grab to get a DS off. It's gonna be annoying.It's also not even that bad of a perk right now. I see it fairly frequently as it is and it does make a difference when i am playing killer.
Something else should be done to address tunnelling.
I'm disappointed i really thought they wouldn't go backwards on this. I hope they reconsider before this goes live. Maybe make it 4 seconds or something.2 -
1.) Yes, I did. If Survivors are using Prove consistently, they aren't being efficient. It is NEVER efficient to group up on any gen besides the last one. Prove saves VERY little time, something like seven seconds. It's a TERRIBLE perk and is a complete noob trap. It's something that both Killers and Survivors see and go, "Here, this one speeds up gens, it's the problem/solution!"
2.) He didn't take them seriously at first. After they started winning, he started malding and got tilted. I can't really blame him, I'd be pissed as ######### too, but he let that affect him and it shows. He beat teams like that before with little to no difficulty, so cherry-picking a single game out of two thousand is laughable and disingenuous.
3.) If you're gonna be nitpicky semantic about opinions, literally every point you tried to make in your original argument is an opinion.
4.) Yeah, that was literally my point in bringing it up. There's supposed to be some difference in power, but not the gulf that we have right now.
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I'm not sure what you were expecting. Tunnelling is one of the most common complaints. The devs were always going to address it. Now either they address it with something basekit like they did for face camping, or they give survivors their own means of countering it via perks. Basekit means tunnelling will be pretty much taken off the table as a strat. Perks simply add a layer of risk. The latter is obviously preferable. You can still tunnel, you just take the risk that that survivor has something up their sleeve to help them along.
It fell out of meta after 6.1. One of the biggest complaints at the time was it being used in endgame, which was removed in 6.1. Most people agreed the 5s time didn't need to be adjusted and the perks nerf was overkill. All this buff looks like to me is the devs finding the middle ground between old and new that they should have settled on in 6.1.
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No the only reason it was meta was because it worked after the last gen.
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I don't believe that. It was very effective at dealing with tunnelling. Everyone on forums who complained about tunnelling would just get told to use DS.
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It wasnt and we wont know until we find out there was never an in between to see how it worked.
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Well said friend 🙂
Thanks, friend!
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Well that last part is true but i still believe it'll be in nearly every loadout if it goes live
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It will be untill killers stop tunneling.
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Nah it's gotta stay meta to keep the fear there. Once people feel comfortable to take it off, they'll get tunnelled and put the perk back on again. That's what happened before
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No back in the day killers would sit out a locker wasting time and the reason they complained was because end game you could get taken off hook be at exit gate and crawl out. I used to hop in a locker waste the killers time and not even have the perk. We have never seen the perk actualy give you more then 2 sec to get away and be disabled after doing an action. 6.1 was the first complete nerf of the perk description we have now.
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We have though? For like an entire year ds had 5 second stun plus the deactivation conditions.
Yeah i agree the endgame usage was the main complaints but the 5 second stun was very powerful, many people say this. It's why tunnelling was on a rise when it got nerfed. It's why they buffed OTR to replace it.0 -
They also found that otr does nothing and they also changed the distance surviors got after the stun because they didnt gain as much distance anymore. A lot of things have been changed including the stun duration on killers in 6.1 so well see how it plays out.
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I'm surprised to see that people didn't really hear a week or two ago that momoseventh, a comp player that mains blight, lost a 1947 game winstreak to a team running 4 OTR and 3 DS. The perk is absolutely meta even against S tiers, and if comp didn't enforce unique perks on survivors you would see it on everyone or nearly everyone in scrims. It's super strong.
I record my games on nightlight and decisive strike is the 10th most popular survivor perk that I run into when I play killer. That's for a reason - it's really good! This is at higher mmr though, I'm a p100 blight main so my games are against the strongest survivors matchmaking is willing to give me, which is not saying much lol. In my survivor games I've been playing with brand new friends and DS is definitely not a popular pick in low mmr
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That's not true, I play a little more survivor than killer. I record all of my games on nightlight, where DS is the 10th most popular perk when I play killer. I'm surprised to see a lot of people in this thread unaware of how good and popular the perk currently is
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Okay not to be an ass but you only have 260 games played. Its not that good of a perk.
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so the take away here is not that a 1947 win streak is outrageous, but that ds is so strong. cool.
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260 since March 10
Both can be true
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Well I guess we both play a lot I just disagree its not that great of a perk. It almost never effects me as killer.
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you have misread my intentions. I’m only expressing the concern me and other killer mains I’ve seen said or spoken to on this issue and putting it out there after putting it into words with the concerns I’ve heard expressed and of course through my own personal experience and biases which I won’t deny but I do believe it’s healthy to hearing an opposing view on the matter at hand and find a middle ground when dealing with such a controversial topic
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ya I also brought up Momo’s win streak lost and they completely dismissed me on it
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Killers already have that meta build. It's called stacking four
slowdowns (stronger than Survivor perks, by design) and then tunneling
someone out immediately.not to mention that tunneling only works that well if you´re a tier A killer, and the tier A—tier S killers, low tier killers suffering because nurse is (for some reason) a thing
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because it is not a good point, and it is mind-boggling to me that someone does not see that
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