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Do Most Used Perks = Overpowered?
I hear fellow killer mains frequently stating that self care, desicive strike, borrowed time (before), and sprint burst are op, and should be nerfed, BECAUSE they are the most used perks.
By that logic shouldn’t ruin and BBQ be nerfed?
Comments
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I don't think it would be really useful nerf killer perks nor survivor perks; but you have to agree that in higher ranks survivors are a way advantaged than killers, thanks SWF and Items such as purple flashlights and new pieces.
Please don't kill me, it's only an opinion XD0 -
The problem with survivor perks is they, for the most part, have no downside. Hex: Ruin is now near useless at high ranks because either A. survivors hit great skill checks like it's not even there or B. it gets found in the first 5 seconds.
Sprint Burst makes quick chases near impossible while giving survivors a huge advantage with no downsides except for a cooldown, which isn't even that big because by the time your out of the chase it comes back and you can do it again.
Self-care makes keeping control over survivor health states actually impossible without Nurse's Calling. Even then they'll just heal outside of your range.
Borrowed Time I actually don't mind now, it was annoying before the change but I like it now.
Desicive Strike.. oh god. It's one of those perks that completely screws you over with no skill included. Even if bad survivors use it it wastes a lot more time than it should ever do. Let's say the obsession runs you around pallets for 2 generators, not falling for any mind games and there's nothing you can do. He finally makes a mistake and you get him down. He uses DS and suddenly finds a whole new set of loops, meaning he has the opportunity to run you around for the rest of the match.
Ruin shouldn't be nerfed as it already has a very big drawback, but I would say if all these survivor perks get nerfed it would be acceptable to have BBQ split into 2 perks, one for tracking and the other for BP.
That's my take on it, everyone has their own opinions I guess, I'm play both sides equally for the record.0 -
Ruin can be completely removed from the match, so not really op. BBQ and chili can be fooled if you know the killer has it. Honestly I mainly use BBQ for the extra bp. If they want to nerf the aura reading and boost the bp from it, then I'd be ok with that. The only survivor perks I really have a problem with is ds and sb. I think not being able to heal once ds is used is a great balance. Not sure how to balance sb though... definitely needs a change.
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@almondbutter said:
The problem with survivor perks is they, for the most part, have no downside.
Ruin shouldn't be nerfed as it already has a very big drawback, but I would say if all these survivor perks get nerfed it would be acceptable to have BBQ split into 2 perks, one for tracking and the other for BP.
That's my take on it, everyone has their own opinions I guess, I'm play both sides equally for the record.Killer perks don't have downsides either... Hex perks only have their glaring weakness to compensate for how strong they are supposed to be.
But IMO, a stale meta should always be looked at, but in the context of the game as a whole. I.e. it's silly to think that stealth perks would be meta with such strong anti-stealth perks being meta. (BBQC, NC)
@Michael_Myers said:
Ruin can be completely removed from the match, so not really op. BBQ and chili can be fooled if you know the killer has it. Honestly I mainly use BBQ for the extra bp. If they want to nerf the aura reading and boost the bp from it, then I'd be ok with that. The only survivor perks I really have a problem with is ds and sb. I think not being able to heal once ds is used is a great balance. Not sure how to balance sb though... definitely needs a change.They should just separate the BP perk to something else or just make it passive. BBQC is mandatory because it's good and it serves as the best utility in the game for most players. If it was just aura reading, even if stronger than it is now, fewer people would take it if it didn't have the 2x BP bonus.
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@Jack11803 said:
I hear fellow killer mains frequently stating that self care, desicive strike, borrowed time (before), and sprint burst are op, and should be nerfed, BECAUSE they are the most used perks.By that logic shouldn’t ruin and BBQ be nerfed?
In term of power, Ruin & BBQ aren't even close of SB/SC/DS. That's the thing.
Ruin is a NECESSITY more than an actual "OP perk".
BBQ is a nice way to reward people from playing killer in such a meta, with BP.1 -
@Jack11803 said:
I hear fellow killer mains frequently stating that self care, desicive strike, borrowed time (before), and sprint burst are op, and should be nerfed, BECAUSE they are the most used perks.By that logic shouldn’t ruin and BBQ be nerfed?
BBQ needs some sort of downside on Billy and Nurse. It's just for BP on other killers. Ruin is actually a horrible perk, I hate running it the totem never lasts and you barely get any stall from it. Sadly the gens just get done so fast that you get forced into running ruin unless you play Billy/Nurse. Trust me if the gen speeds were a little more reasonable nobody would run ruin.
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Most games tend to nerf things if they become overpicked because it causes the meta to become super stale.
In DbD, we keep meta perks super strong, and instead introduce even more powerful perks to convince people to use those instead, while keeping all previous perks super weak, which only ends up slightly shifting the meta temporarily until everyone defaults back to SC/DS/SB.
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From the feedback I’ve gotten, it’s seems the answer is no, which is good. Thank you for the posts and time. And an F to pay respects for that one downvote I got. I CRI EVRY TYM
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@Runiver said:
@Jack11803 said:
I hear fellow killer mains frequently stating that self care, desicive strike, borrowed time (before), and sprint burst are op, and should be nerfed, BECAUSE they are the most used perks.By that logic shouldn’t ruin and BBQ be nerfed?
In term of power, Ruin & BBQ aren't even close of SB/SC/DS. That's the thing.
Ruin is a NECESSITY more than an actual "OP perk".
BBQ is a nice way to reward people from playing killer in such a meta, with BP.He's not wrong. Ruin is absoloutely a necessity, else the match is gone before you know it. BBQ I primarily use for points, and the BBQ can be abused in the survivors favor. Neither one is "OP", perks like getting out of a killers grasp after being caught because you made a stupid move is OP as hell.
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@DrDannieburger said:
@Runiver said:
@Jack11803 said:
I hear fellow killer mains frequently stating that self care, desicive strike, borrowed time (before), and sprint burst are op, and should be nerfed, BECAUSE they are the most used perks.By that logic shouldn’t ruin and BBQ be nerfed?
In term of power, Ruin & BBQ aren't even close of SB/SC/DS. That's the thing.
Ruin is a NECESSITY more than an actual "OP perk".
BBQ is a nice way to reward people from playing killer in such a meta, with BP.He's not wrong. Ruin is absoloutely a necessity, else the match is gone before you know it. BBQ I primarily use for points, and the BBQ can be abused in the survivors favor. Neither one is "OP", perks like getting out of a killers grasp after being caught because you made a stupid move is OP as hell.
I think I mentioned this is my thread called “sad state of survivor balance” maybe I mentioned it elsewhere. Maybe on in specific nerf DS thread. It was that; DS itself is not actually OP, pallet looping is OP, and DS lets you pallet loop.
So with that, the problem isn’t DS, but loops. If pallet looping was much weaker, DS would be too, and the game would be healthier. Seeing how pallet looping will take a long time to remove, I believe a nerf for DS should just be, only obsession can use it. No injured Mumbo jumbo
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@Jack11803 said:
@DrDannieburger said:
@Runiver said:
@Jack11803 said:
I hear fellow killer mains frequently stating that self care, desicive strike, borrowed time (before), and sprint burst are op, and should be nerfed, BECAUSE they are the most used perks.By that logic shouldn’t ruin and BBQ be nerfed?
In term of power, Ruin & BBQ aren't even close of SB/SC/DS. That's the thing.
Ruin is a NECESSITY more than an actual "OP perk".
BBQ is a nice way to reward people from playing killer in such a meta, with BP.He's not wrong. Ruin is absoloutely a necessity, else the match is gone before you know it. BBQ I primarily use for points, and the BBQ can be abused in the survivors favor. Neither one is "OP", perks like getting out of a killers grasp after being caught because you made a stupid move is OP as hell.
I think I mentioned this is my thread called “sad state of survivor balance” maybe I mentioned it elsewhere. Maybe on in specific nerf DS thread. It was that; DS itself is not actually OP, pallet looping is OP, and DS lets you pallet loop.
So with that, the problem isn’t DS, but loops. If pallet looping was much weaker, DS would be too, and the game would be healthier. Seeing how pallet looping will take a long time to remove, I believe a nerf for DS should just be, only obsession can use it. No injured Mumbo jumbo
I actually get where you're coming from that. The only thing I struggle to understand with DS is the fact that all the effort the killer put into a chase goes to waste because of a perk. But I do understand what you mean in terms of pallet looping.
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@DrDannieburger said:
@Jack11803 said:
@DrDannieburger said:
@Runiver said:
@Jack11803 said:
I hear fellow killer mains frequently stating that self care, desicive strike, borrowed time (before), and sprint burst are op, and should be nerfed, BECAUSE they are the most used perks.By that logic shouldn’t ruin and BBQ be nerfed?
In term of power, Ruin & BBQ aren't even close of SB/SC/DS. That's the thing.
Ruin is a NECESSITY more than an actual "OP perk".
BBQ is a nice way to reward people from playing killer in such a meta, with BP.He's not wrong. Ruin is absoloutely a necessity, else the match is gone before you know it. BBQ I primarily use for points, and the BBQ can be abused in the survivors favor. Neither one is "OP", perks like getting out of a killers grasp after being caught because you made a stupid move is OP as hell.
I think I mentioned this is my thread called “sad state of survivor balance” maybe I mentioned it elsewhere. Maybe on in specific nerf DS thread. It was that; DS itself is not actually OP, pallet looping is OP, and DS lets you pallet loop.
So with that, the problem isn’t DS, but loops. If pallet looping was much weaker, DS would be too, and the game would be healthier. Seeing how pallet looping will take a long time to remove, I believe a nerf for DS should just be, only obsession can use it. No injured Mumbo jumbo
I actually get where you're coming from that. The only thing I struggle to understand with DS is the fact that all the effort the killer put into a chase goes to waste because of a perk. But I do understand what you mean in terms of pallet looping.
Geez this chain is getting long. Don’t think of DS as punishment, it’s not. Merely an extra health state for survivors.
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It's not about the fact there are meta, Dead Hard and the new BT are in the meta yet very few complain about them.
DS is very usually the perk people complain about the most, for several reasons: a FREE get-out-of-jail perk, extremely frustrating on the killer side (denies a hook you deserved), and can be - in the right hands - potentially broken.
On the same fashion, people dislikes Self Care because the infinite heal is kinda against the core mechanics - and so are the killer perks / addons with wallhacks but they are all carefuly balanced (sometimes weak...) in order to not break the balance.
Sprint Burst just needs to have a condition like other exhaustion perks.
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DS really isn't op. its balanced.... provided you only dealt with one. but 4 DS can be an entire game without a hook. same way with BT. it isn't op unless they're borrowing time right through the exit gates.... alot of perks deemed op weren't really op. they were abused.... same way with pallets, windows and swf....
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@Soren said:
It's not about the fact there are meta, Dead Hard and the new BT are in the meta yet very few complain about them.DS is very usually the perk people complain about the most, for several reasons: a FREE get-out-of-jail perk, extremely frustrating on the killer side (denies a hook you deserved), and can be - in the right hands - potentially broken.
On the same fashion, people dislikes Self Care because the infinite heal is kinda against the core mechanics - and so are the killer perks / addons with wallhacks but they are all carefuly balanced (sometimes weak...) in order to not break the balance.
Sprint Burst just needs to have a condition like other exhaustion perks.
Same thing here as above. I believe those perks are only so bad because of the current state of looping.
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@Jack11803 said:
@Soren said:
It's not about the fact there are meta, Dead Hard and the new BT are in the meta yet very few complain about them.DS is very usually the perk people complain about the most, for several reasons: a FREE get-out-of-jail perk, extremely frustrating on the killer side (denies a hook you deserved), and can be - in the right hands - potentially broken.
On the same fashion, people dislikes Self Care because the infinite heal is kinda against the core mechanics - and so are the killer perks / addons with wallhacks but they are all carefuly balanced (sometimes weak...) in order to not break the balance.
Sprint Burst just needs to have a condition like other exhaustion perks.
Same thing here as above. I believe those perks are only so bad because of the current state of looping.
Well, forget that Nea comment on that other thread, I can farm downvotes here. I don’t know how, but someone got off kilter from what I said.
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I don't consider DS to be fine only for a matter of balance.
DS isn't fun. At all.
It just feels wrong to get punished, especially early game, for catching someone.
Not to mention it allows non-obsession to get caught next to the basement, and to wiggle off before being hooked there, which is basically rewarding a huge mistake with some HUGE benefits.Not to mention one easy thing :
Being obsession should NOT allow you to survive LONGER.
Obviously, Dying Light makes this statement arguable, but Dying Light is underused and arguably VERY weak. And most killer obsession perks also EXTEND the obsession's life, which doesn't feel quite right.0 -
BBQ doesnt need a nerf. I rarely get caught by it because I assume everyone has it and act accordingly. Run one way while you count to four, then turn and walk another way.
As others have said. Ruin is almost a necessity. Killers absolutely need a perk to slow down gens. As far as other gen-slowing perks go... Lullaby needs several hooks to take full effect and can be destroyed before it does anything. Overcharge requires that you kick the gen, and skilled survivors can just make the check anyway (I almost always fail the first overcharge check, but after that it's easy). Thanatophobia is near-worthless... Even with Thana 3 and all four survivors injured, it only adds 12 seconds to a gen.0 -
The thing that makes SB “op” is that when a survivor breaks into the sprint, there is a built in Dead Hard effect which will prevent the killer from hitting the survivor as the sprint begins.
With the hillbilly’s chainsaw, when a survivor breaks into the sprint, the chainsaw will cut itself off, like it does when a survivor activates Dead hard. Same thing happens when the killer lunges with the melee attack. The lunge stops.
Sprint Burst could also be said to be op because it can outrun The Pig’s dash attack.
IMO, the killer’s ability should always have priority over the survivor perks - unless, of course, they have Dead Hard1 -
Personally, I find surrivor perks very powerful, more so than killers. I don't feel like they're op, I feel like they're simply too strong and need tweaking. I personally may get hate for this yet I think self care should have limited uses.
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@Runiver said:
I don't consider DS to be fine only for a matter of balance.
DS isn't fun. At all.
It just feels wrong to get punished, especially early game, for catching someone.
Not to mention it allows non-obsession to get caught next to the basement, and to wiggle off before being hooked there, which is basically rewarding a huge mistake with some HUGE benefits.Not to mention one easy thing :
Being obsession should NOT allow you to survive LONGER.
Obviously, Dying Light makes this statement arguable, but Dying Light is underused and arguably VERY weak. And most killer obsession perks also EXTEND the obsession's life, which doesn't feel quite right.I think spending a perk slot, a painting a target on your back is fine for a single extra health state. It doesn’t punish the killer at all, that would suggest the killer did something wrong. It’s merely a bonus health state for a perk slot.
If it worked only for obsession (my nerf idea for DS is its own thread) it would be fine. Pallet looping a four used makes it ridiculous.
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@Jack11803 said:
@Runiver said:
I don't consider DS to be fine only for a matter of balance.
DS isn't fun. At all.
It just feels wrong to get punished, especially early game, for catching someone.
Not to mention it allows non-obsession to get caught next to the basement, and to wiggle off before being hooked there, which is basically rewarding a huge mistake with some HUGE benefits.Not to mention one easy thing :
Being obsession should NOT allow you to survive LONGER.
Obviously, Dying Light makes this statement arguable, but Dying Light is underused and arguably VERY weak. And most killer obsession perks also EXTEND the obsession's life, which doesn't feel quite right.I think spending a perk slot, a painting a target on your back is fine for a single extra health state. It doesn’t punish the killer at all, that would suggest the killer did something wrong. It’s merely a bonus health state for a perk slot.
If it worked only for obsession (my nerf idea for DS is its own thread) it would be fine. Pallet looping a four used makes it ridiculous.
This "bonus state" is huge as it can break all the momentum a killer has on a game.
Not to mention that a single health state, in the early game, can cost you 1-2 gens easily.You're gonna tell me "Well, don't chase the obsession first then", and I'll tell you my previous argument : Why should an obsession perk be protecting a survivor while it should be BOTH a benefit and a downside ? At the moment, it's ONLY a benefit, and it's fundamentally wrong.
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@Runiver said:
@Jack11803 said:
@Runiver said:
I don't consider DS to be fine only for a matter of balance.
DS isn't fun. At all.
It just feels wrong to get punished, especially early game, for catching someone.
Not to mention it allows non-obsession to get caught next to the basement, and to wiggle off before being hooked there, which is basically rewarding a huge mistake with some HUGE benefits.Not to mention one easy thing :
Being obsession should NOT allow you to survive LONGER.
Obviously, Dying Light makes this statement arguable, but Dying Light is underused and arguably VERY weak. And most killer obsession perks also EXTEND the obsession's life, which doesn't feel quite right.I think spending a perk slot, a painting a target on your back is fine for a single extra health state. It doesn’t punish the killer at all, that would suggest the killer did something wrong. It’s merely a bonus health state for a perk slot.
If it worked only for obsession (my nerf idea for DS is its own thread) it would be fine. Pallet looping a four used makes it ridiculous.
This "bonus state" is huge as it can break all the momentum a killer has on a game.
Not to mention that a single health state, in the early game, can cost you 1-2 gens easily.You're gonna tell me "Well, don't chase the obsession first then", and I'll tell you my previous argument : Why should an obsession perk be protecting a survivor while it should be BOTH a benefit and a downside ? At the moment, it's ONLY a benefit, and it's fundamentally wrong.
No, I’m gonna tell you my opinion is based on needs to survivor I discussed on another thread, and that DS only does that because of looping. The problem is looping, which shouldn’t be a thing.
They should make chases shorter and with more LOS breakers or blockers that prevent the killer from catching up as fast.
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I agree with you...killers must use at least one perk to try to stop the gen rush, and the better perk at the moment is ruin, but as said before, it’s to easy for skilled players to pick perfect skill-checks and to destroy it.Esheon said:BBQ doesnt need a nerf. I rarely get caught by it because I assume everyone has it and act accordingly. Run one way while you count to four, then turn and walk another way.
As others have said. Ruin is almost a necessity. Killers absolutely need a perk to slow down gens. As far as other gen-slowing perks go... Lullaby needs several hooks to take full effect and can be destroyed before it does anything. Overcharge requires that you kick the gen, and skilled survivors can just make the check anyway (I almost always fail the first overcharge check, but after that it's easy). Thanatophobia is near-worthless... Even with Thana 3 and all four survivors injured, it only adds 12 seconds to a gen.
I think that the best thing could be to have two perks against the gen rush; ruin for 20-15 ranks, because of the difficulty of the skill-checks, and another perk, maybe tanatophobia (but improved because now is nearly useless) for lower ranks.
if nothing will change, maybe we should consider the idea to use killers and perks for the end-game (pig/noed ecc..)0 -
@Jack11803 said:
@Runiver said:
@Jack11803 said:
@Runiver said:
I don't consider DS to be fine only for a matter of balance.
DS isn't fun. At all.
It just feels wrong to get punished, especially early game, for catching someone.
Not to mention it allows non-obsession to get caught next to the basement, and to wiggle off before being hooked there, which is basically rewarding a huge mistake with some HUGE benefits.Not to mention one easy thing :
Being obsession should NOT allow you to survive LONGER.
Obviously, Dying Light makes this statement arguable, but Dying Light is underused and arguably VERY weak. And most killer obsession perks also EXTEND the obsession's life, which doesn't feel quite right.I think spending a perk slot, a painting a target on your back is fine for a single extra health state. It doesn’t punish the killer at all, that would suggest the killer did something wrong. It’s merely a bonus health state for a perk slot.
If it worked only for obsession (my nerf idea for DS is its own thread) it would be fine. Pallet looping a four used makes it ridiculous.
This "bonus state" is huge as it can break all the momentum a killer has on a game.
Not to mention that a single health state, in the early game, can cost you 1-2 gens easily.You're gonna tell me "Well, don't chase the obsession first then", and I'll tell you my previous argument : Why should an obsession perk be protecting a survivor while it should be BOTH a benefit and a downside ? At the moment, it's ONLY a benefit, and it's fundamentally wrong.
No, I’m gonna tell you my opinion is based on needs to survivor I discussed on another thread, and that DS only does that because of looping. The problem is looping, which shouldn’t be a thing.
They should make chases shorter and with more LOS breakers or blockers that prevent the killer from catching up as fast.
The problem is not only looping.
No looping doesn't always mean shorter chases. Some people can actually juke efficiently without looping.
It takes more skill, for sure. But DS Overly rewards it, too.
I don't consider that chases should be made shorter overall, as I still think the survivor skill should be relevant. But still, DS just allows way too much time wasting, especially early game, and is a nice protection for the DS user, while it should be both a bonus AND a downside to have such perks, considering it's an obsession perk.1 -
@Runiver said:
@Jack11803 said:
@Runiver said:
@Jack11803 said:
@Runiver said:
I don't consider DS to be fine only for a matter of balance.
DS isn't fun. At all.
It just feels wrong to get punished, especially early game, for catching someone.
Not to mention it allows non-obsession to get caught next to the basement, and to wiggle off before being hooked there, which is basically rewarding a huge mistake with some HUGE benefits.Not to mention one easy thing :
Being obsession should NOT allow you to survive LONGER.
Obviously, Dying Light makes this statement arguable, but Dying Light is underused and arguably VERY weak. And most killer obsession perks also EXTEND the obsession's life, which doesn't feel quite right.I think spending a perk slot, a painting a target on your back is fine for a single extra health state. It doesn’t punish the killer at all, that would suggest the killer did something wrong. It’s merely a bonus health state for a perk slot.
If it worked only for obsession (my nerf idea for DS is its own thread) it would be fine. Pallet looping a four used makes it ridiculous.
This "bonus state" is huge as it can break all the momentum a killer has on a game.
Not to mention that a single health state, in the early game, can cost you 1-2 gens easily.You're gonna tell me "Well, don't chase the obsession first then", and I'll tell you my previous argument : Why should an obsession perk be protecting a survivor while it should be BOTH a benefit and a downside ? At the moment, it's ONLY a benefit, and it's fundamentally wrong.
No, I’m gonna tell you my opinion is based on needs to survivor I discussed on another thread, and that DS only does that because of looping. The problem is looping, which shouldn’t be a thing.
They should make chases shorter and with more LOS breakers or blockers that prevent the killer from catching up as fast.
The problem is not only looping.
No looping doesn't always mean shorter chases. Some people can actually juke efficiently without looping.
It takes more skill, for sure. But DS Overly rewards it, too.
I don't consider that chases should be made shorter overall, as I still think the survivor skill should be relevant. But still, DS just allows way too much time wasting, especially early game, and is a nice protection for the DS user, while it should be both a bonus AND a downside to have such perks, considering it's an obsession perk.My suggested nerf for DS in another thread was to make it so only obsession can use it, everyone else can’t whatsoever. Unlike other obsession perks where everyone can use it,with some weakened version or hard to acquire. This would be simple.
One DS only is always better, and people would run it much less to avoid wasting a slot, or synergies with other obsession perks. Win win.
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The only Killer perk that should be nerfed is none. Killers are the underpowered ones here outside the Nurse. All the "OP" killer perks have huge counters. Sprint Burst and DS are the ones that I find can ######### a Killer hard. A Killer's power should not be neglected because a Survivor suddenly Sprint Burst away. #########'s so stupid that it can outrun The Pig's ambush attack which should have been a successful hit, but nope, gets outran because of a silly perk Survivors don't even have to charge like The Pig's dash attack or the Billy's chainsaw.
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I agree with most things said above.
BBQ is easy to read by the killers movement and therefor easy to counter.
Hex Ruin is just there to avoid people from rushing gens thus gaining some extra time for the killer. Not op at all, since the positioning of the totem seems to be completely random, it will either save your day or just be easy 1k points for the survivors and 1 less perk in the entire match.0
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