Should flashbang and background player be changed?
Ive been getting these teams trying to exploit this the past few days. I go to pick up looking at a wall. And a flashbangs dropped at my feet blinding me anyway. So i get another down. I look around. Don't see anyone. Go to pick up. Dude with better sprint burst comes running in and drive-bys me. Theres not much i can do to avoid it since it removes the counterplay of flashlight saves (looking at walls). Most of these games though the people are overly altruistic and i can get them eventually. Just sucks some of the saves are unavoidable now.
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Now I have to look up background player. I'm not a troll but seems effective.
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This combo is something that BHVR should keep an eye on because the problem seems to be the collision that doesn't seem to exist sometimes. I've seen some clips of survivors crossing the killer even though he's looking at the wall. This is something that shouldn't happen.
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Flashbang is fine, the issue is Background Player. It removes almost all counter play for the killer bar getting lucky and near a wall.
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Flashbangs in here because it removes the counterplay of looking at a wall because they can throw the flashbang on your feet.
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Well I don't feel like they'd be able to get into position for that flashbang in time without the aid of Background Player.
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imagine a team where 2 people have background player+flashbang and 2 people have for the people+buckle up, then you factor everyone running Decisive strike. You can get games where you get following
You down someone, FTP+Buckle up → You down them again →Hook them.
You chase survivor, down them, you get hit by decisive strike, you down them again, Flashbang+Background player.
Within 1 hook stage, survivor needed to be downed 4 times because they got saved 3 times by the perks. If player selects dead hard, that is another second chance on top of all that. If player selects Med-kit with red syringe, that is another second chance.
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Considering Lightborn hard counters the combo, no.
I'd say the problem is Killers feel like they can't run anything but gen-regression perks. …but honestly, I think that's a bad argument. Kill rates a very revealing. Killers can't be bothered to run anything that requires a modicum of effort, less they risk killing only 2 survivors every trial.
Post edited by EQWashu on7 -
Is it counter able by Lightborn? If so…
No.
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just run a perk 4head where were these words of wisdom with ultimate weapon? Just to humor you though. I havent ran the perk since i started in 2017. Never plan to. I want survivors to have a chance to flashlight save me. What i dont need is flashbang sniping from cross map with no counterplay.
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What perk counters Ultimate Weapon?
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Calm spirit and in some ways vigil.
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Thought Calm Spirit prevented the scream but didn’t affect Blindness. I guess if you’re throwing in Vigil (which also doesn’t prevent the Blindness), that’s still two perks to halfway counter one. Not equal to using Lightborn to counter this BP + Flashbang combo.
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I knew this was coming am not even bother to even comment lol.
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I have been recording all my games and notice that in the middle of the game or towards the end, the players are actually bots.
The behavior is not of a real person. I had a bot go right passed me like a flash of light. They normally send 3 Prestige level 1-3 and 1 at level 25 to 66. Game starts and I make sure I'm the last one to check in to the game and I notice that 3 bots had not toolbox, flashlight, med-kit or map. Once in the game, they all have flashlights.
Not sure how long my comment will be here or if they try editing.
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What does lightborn do to pallet saves? They die on pallet nothing you can do against 5s 200% SB.
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I think the flashbang should only work in a cone in front of the killer instead of a full semicircle. Otherwise, you can flash the killer while they are literally looking away.
Background Player is busted, though. The sprint is so strong that if a survivor is downed near a pallet, the killer can't realistically look for the survivor who's going to come for the pallet save because they could be anywhere. It makes it impossible to counter.
However, I feel that the average player base is still not up to this type of meta yet, so even when survivors run these perks, they don't always get value from them. But when the time inevitably comes when survivors get better with these perks, it's going to be hell, and they will definitely get nerfed.
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Background Player definitely needs to be adjusted. The killer essentially has no play if a survivor goes down at a pallet and someone has BGP. The only option is to leave the slug and chase the lurking survivor. I'm at the point where I don't even go through the song and dance at the pallet if I see a survivor staring it down within 20m. I just immediately cycle to the person with BGP.
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Im waiting for the "just run blood favor" i swear.
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Calm Spirit did not counter ultimate weapon the same way lightborn does to flashlight and flashbangs. Killers love this factually false statement so much. It removed the scream, but the blindness stayed.
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I think flashbang needs to be looked at.
Not changing what the perk does of course, but the detection on what counts as a blind with it is wonky. Being able to blind while facing a wall is a problem, but I also get survivors who throw it in front of the killer and get no blind even if the killer stares straight at it without lightborn.
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Why do you need an answer to every situation?
Survivor went down on a pallet—tough luck. Not like it happens every single time a survivor goes down.
Position your body so it is blocking the easiest point of access, and pick up the survivor. Sometimes a survivor with Background Player happens to be working on a generator nearby, but most of the time they were shadowing chase. I don't see the problem.
If survivors are giving up gen pressure for chase support, let them win some battles.1 -
Use both perks 100 times in solo queue. Report your results. I run both perks, often, always in solo queue. If I wanted results, I'd just tunnel as Killer.
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Flashbang is fine, Background Player needs to be fully reverted to it's pre-buff version, It never needed a buff in the first place
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Chase survivor for 45s to just give up and have wasted all that time. Survivors have the control to die on a pallet consistently and in a way that means a pick up allows both sides to be dropped. They get the gen pressure & you're denied a down lots of counterplay!
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Literally who cares about the blindness anyway ? If you took the screaming from Ultimate Weapon and only kept the blindness literally nobody would be running this perk anymore (just like they won't after the upcoming nerfs as well).
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You're talking as if the survivor escapes through the exit gates every time a pallet is dropped on your head.
Of course your chases are going to be longer when a second survivor is helping their teammate extend the duration of their chase. They are doing so at the detriment of gen progress, so it's a net zero gain.
If a survivor intentionally goes down on pallet, because their buddy is nearby with BGP, I still don't see the issue. They just gave you a free down SOONER than if they were genuinely trying to outrun you.
Survivors aren't winning the game because of BGP any more than they did without it. It just sucks to get dunked on, and thats the real reason Killers have issue with it.
Don't live in absolutes, and it won't be a problem. Downing a survivor isn't the "end" of a chase—just part of it.1 -
If you think 30 seconds of blindness isn't useful, I can't help you, so trying to convince you otherwise would be a complete waste of my time. But that's besides the point, since your whole comment is moving the goalposts of my original comment. Since calm spirit does not prevent blindness, it is not a full counter, and cannot be equated to lightborn. It's really that simple.
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Today a game of the community cup was literally lost because a team messed up a background player play, so yes it can literally win games. In fact most comp teams use it as it is a guarantee save unless the bgp user has played less than 3 hours. Also you do not need a survivor trailing behind the chase to get the save you, the speed boost lets you get the pallet save almost across the map you just have to let go of the gen a little after your teamate tells you they will go down or you suspect they will go down.
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No it removes collision
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Survivors can pull off the same trick with Power Struggle.
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Flashbangs have 2 issues at the moment:
- Sound occlusion. You can drop a flashbang behind a wall and the killer will not be able to hear it thanks to sound occlusion. Now they walk around a corner and immediately get blinded with nothing they could realistically do.
- Survivors can glich themselves into the killer during the pick up animation. This allows them to drop the flashbang right on their feet and get the blind even when they apply the correct counter (staring at a wall).
If both of these were fixed, I'd be completely fine with flashbangs and Background Player.
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Flashbang is fine; Background Player needs a nerf.
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Imagine if you could only cleanse a Hex if someone were running a boon perk? Do you really think that counters should be based on perks? Lightborn is one of the worst perks in the game and remove one thing that everyone who wants to play killer must learn: how to deal with survivors with lanterns and pallet saves. Anyway, its not healthy to the only counter of one thing being ONE perk among the hundred that you can bring.
About the topic:
The problem is Background Player, not flashbangs. BGP needs to be reverted at least for the previous version before the buff. Its not just a perk that facilitates flashligh saves, but makes flash saves possible when they would not be possible otherwise. It don't have a clear counter for killers and its a very strong perk in SWFs.1 -
Its a bug right now where when a killer picks up a survivor, they lose collision. It also affects pallet saves. There are many situations where you can pick up a survivor under a pallet and you position yourself in a way where you body block the pallet save so they have to go around. But now you can just walk right through for some reason.
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Your anecdote proves my point—they ran BGP and still lost.
Also, I'm not interested in discussing game balance with respect to comp.Do you really think that counters should be based on perks?
No, I do not. However, BHVR has communicated their design philosophy loud and clear, and I'm not in the business of offering suggestions the design team won't even entertain.
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So what is the counterplay when you can time it perfectly to blind anytime? Sorry, everything in the game should have a counterplay, and there should be no automatic if the killer positions themselves correctly.
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Would Forced Hesitation work against it?
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This is why I'm running Lightborn all the time and learning to play Pyramidhead. Cages of Torment dgaf about flashbangs and background players.
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Ironically BGP may actually push Killer players to learn to weigh the benefits of whether hooking a survivor is worth it or not which ties into macroplay. The down > hook cycle isn't a must in every chase rotation. Sometimes slugs can generate more pressure and renders BGP useless as a bonus.
I look forward to more Killer players getting better at macroplay.
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