Can we add using a flashlight save to the conspicuous action list for DS?
Because if you are flashlight saving, you aren't being tunneled.
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What if you're trying to be healed on death hook but you're attacked by a tunneling zombie?
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🤣🤣🤣
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Aren't those different score events?
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Even more so, protection hits. Solves the abuse problems. If you're body blocking for someone you aren't being tunneled, you're trying to extend chases and progress the game.
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This is an idea I'm for... however the scenario it doesn't work is when a survivor is pulled off hook by an injured survivor to trade and the killer instead hits the unhooked player.
This would be a "protection hit" and would deny the Decisive Strike through no fault of the unhook player... It also affects scenarios where an injured player happens to be within 16m, which can happen by mistake of anyones part.
I can't think of a way to protect against this... other than to say endurance hits don't count... but then we have the OTR problem...
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Wow these topics gets more and more interesting of lately.
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The issue here is that sometimes a killer may be tunneling but because another survivor is close trying to help the person being tunneled, it may still register as a protection hit. The scenario happens a lot where someone makes a bad path and the killer manages to get around or swing around them and still hit the person they were tunneling instead of the person trying to protect them from being tunneled.
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Killer could still be tunneling you when you try to flashlight save. Perhaps you made it to a pallet and then blinded them? DS shouldn’t deactivate in that situation.
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Actually Huge_Bush is right here
Post edited by MaTtRoSiTy on1 -
That's a fair point. I'd prefer just no collision on the unhooked to prevent all this.
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I think it should be tied to unshouldering a Survivor from a Killer by any means (to include pallets, Head-on, and other things I'm not thinking of off the top of my head). That way blinding a Killer in a tunneling chase isn't nerfed as a side effect (or stunning a tunneling Killer with the expanded pallet/Head-on/other list).
No collision while you haven't done a CA off hook also helps a Killer when the Survivor fakes touching a gen. You can simply 'shoulder check' them, and if you phase through, you can hit and leave, or commit knowing it might hit anti-tunnel effects.
Protection hits are just coded too strangely to use the score event. Your health doesn't matter, just your distance to an injured Survivor. That means a Huntress spamming hatchets would easily disable anti-tunnel, getting hit out of basement, your rescuer taking the only pallet/window near hook, etc., if they used the Protection score event.1 -
The score event would only count it upon a completed blind, but I think it'd be fairer if trying to use a flashlight at all would count as a conspic action.
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I have no issue with that either that I can think of. I imagine it would be buggy at first but what isn't buggy at first in games these days lol.
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Disagree.
What if you get hit off hook?
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I already responded to this above.
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What if they made it deactivate only when another survivor gets hooked and disabled all forms of self pick up while it's active
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That's not the same as a save. I think if you want to keep things like flashlighting the killer as a diversion technique, or a way to lose them in chase that is fine. But if you successfully do a save, you aren't being tunneled.
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Thats not the same as a save. That is using a flashlight. I'm saying, i pick up a survivor, and you flashlight save and i drop them, you should now lose all anti-tunnel perks because you LITERALLY are not being tunneled by nature of me picking up a different survivor.
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Just because the game is asymmetrical does not mean it is impossible for it to be balanced.
Also, why do i find that people who say: "the game can't be balanced" or "its an asymmetrical game" or "won't someone think of the average player!" always happen to be survivor mains? Would you feel the same if killer was the role that dominated at a high level?
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It should be fine to add extra things to the list of conspicuous actions that deactivate DS. That would make the perk high risk high reward, which is fine.
Killers already need to deal with hex perks and scourge hook perks, where they aren't guaranteed to get full value out of those perks. And for years, killer were told "that's fine" because it's high risk high reward. The same should apply to DS.
Also, remember that Adrenaline is getting changed so that extra things will deactivate it, which means survivors won't always get full value out of the perk, and that's fine. The same should apply to DS.
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What if you fail to get the save? Should accidentally tapping the flashlight on for 1 second disable DS? What if you save with a pallet? Should dropping pallets be a conspicuous action?
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Wdym I love when I go for the survivor who wasn't on the hook and get blinded by the unhooked survivor then have to deal with DS + OTR if I decide to chase them such a fun interaction
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As long as it's after a successful save, sure why not. Wouldn't want it to be for just using a flashlight a single time no matter what though.
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So when this happens unintended the player is punished, I see
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Conspicuous actions are ones that progress the match. Flashlight saves don't progress anything.
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You need to read what i wrote multiple times in this thread. Using the flashlight =/= getting a flashlight save. I am stating that if you flashlight save someone, you are not being tunneled literally because someone else was being picked up from the ground.
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I wouldn't mind if they did this only problem I would be worried about is is if the code would allow it, because we dont want survivors blinding the killer to get away while getting tunneled then they lose the perk.
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I see nothing speaking against it.
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Feels like deactivating DS if another Survivor is picked up would resolve this scenario.
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but what about blinding with pallet stuns? If you’re being tunnelled, I find this a useful way to briefly confuse the killer at pallets to buy myself more time… plus, combined with other perks (Lucky Break, for example) it gives you ample opportunity to lose a killer mid-chase. Which is of course very helpful if you’re being tunnelled.
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Yeah someone flaslight saved agains't me and then she had otr and ds. So she should lose those was rough match for me then.
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There's literally a score event for saving someone. Simply tie it to the same mechanism.
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For the 4th time, please read the post. There is a difference between "using a flashlight" and "getting a flashlight save"
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Agreed. I don't know why this is getting so much push back honestly.
If you're able to get a flashlight save, that quite literally by definition isn't tunneling and should deactivate DS.
Also, flashlight saves do progress the game like other conspicuous actions. If healing is considered a conspicuous action, why would saving your teammate not be?
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Oh, in that case, I wouldn’t mind if they changed it to deactivate since they’re not trying to get away. It’s not a huge priority though.
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Yea I know I was thinking about that when I was typing it I just don't know how much work would go into codeing it I mean it sounds simple to me also but I feel like if the codeing was that easy we would have a lot more fixes for a whole list of issues that seem easy to fix. For sure should be a thing though even for pallet saves.
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I would agree with getting rid of various ways in which anti-tunnel perks can be used aggressively, if they were to also make it so these perks are much more reliably good in case the survivor is actually getting tunnelled.
Removing collision for the 10 seconds of unhook Endurance would help prevent survivors from using it to bodyblock for other survivors. But those 10 seconds should in turn become unhook invincibility, meaning that if you get hit during this time, you aren't inflicted with Deep Wound. This would help make perks such as Off The Record, Dead Hard and Second Wind much more reliable anti-tunnelling tools as the killer can't simply slap the survivor off hook to render all of them more or less useless. Collision could also be removed for as long as Off The Record and DS are active. Pallet and flashlight saves could be treated as conspicuous actions, disabling DS and ending Endurance. Entering a locker could also disable DS. In turn, DS' timer could stop if you enter the dying state, then being active indefinitely until either picked up by the killer or healed up by any means. DS could also activate up to two times, instead of only once.
That said, it can generally be pointed out that "weaponizing anti-tunnelling tools" while not being a non-issue is a bit of an overblown issue. If a recently-unhooked survivor is in your face, you can just tunnel them. They are serving themselves up on a silver platter, not only not sitting on gens but instead of hiding also giving you the down for free while occupying at least two survivors' time. Wait out unhook Endurance, or, if they have OTR, just slap them and then chase them. If you suspect they have DS, slug them for free pressure/slowdown, wait out the timer if enough time has already passed for it to be feasible, or simply eat the Strike and tunnel them through it. And while not real counterplay, keep in mind that survivors can also miss the skill check. That happens rarely for experienced survivors, but it does happen, and the more people use it and the more often you pick them up instead of trying to wait out the timer or being afraid of it, the more often it will happen that people miss.
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