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Background Player + Flashbang counter?
Okay seriously, how are you meant to counter it? You can’t face away, or even face a wall because the speed boost and blast angle still allows for saves
You can’t realistically equip lightborn every game just in case they bring 1 perk
Flashbang by itself is fine, it allows for skilful saves if you’re close enough and have the right timing, or a free blind at pallets every now and then. The problem is Background Player, it makes the perk incredibly frustrating, especially in the hands of a coordinated SWF
Background player needs nerfing
Comments
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Yeah, I'm all for flashlight/flashbang saves as they take skill and have lots of counter play but Background Player with all this just removes all killer counter play.
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Exactly, same with pallet saves. Ordinarily fine, but with Background Player someone can by legit halfway across the map and still get the save. A good survivor in a SWF will purposely go down on a pallet and know you can’t do anything and will be forced to slug
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I will say it again.
Background player and flasbang are overpowered because they offer no counterplay.
Background player removes any skill or well timing and Flashbangs can blind you without you even looking at them and Survivors can do colision bug to go under the killer and drop it in front of wall anyway. Audio is also horrible because you have no warning even standing half meter away behind wall and you won't hear the drop activation window.
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You can’t realistically equip lightborn every game just in case they bring 1 perk
Why not? Does it unequip each match or something?
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It’s just a waste, it’s already 4 perks vs 16 so permanently reserving 1 slot is just unviable, and unlike flashlights the killer has no way of knowing if they’ll bring a certain perk, or if survivors are even in a group or not
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Its not a problem with flashbang or background player. There is a bug right now where picking up a survivor removes all collision. So a survivor can just walk inside of the killer and drop a flashbang. This was not the case in the patch prior to the unknown. It also has other implications, for example on some areas like say, the game. You could position yourself such that when you pick the survivor up, you also block another survivor from pallet saving on 1 side of the pallet, forcing them to go around. But now the survivor can just drop the pallet while inside the killer.
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That's the funny thing
You don't
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Lightborn is your counter. 🤓
In all seriousness, there is nothing you can do, and wasting a perk slot for something uncounterable at points is ridiculous.
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So heres what you can do, go to the menu and quit the game. Boot up idk dark souls 3 and have fun.
There is no counter to a flasbang background player save unless the survivors messes it up and with backgrounds player speed unless they are literally bots they will not mess it up.
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There's genuinely nothing you can really do if a survivor is down at a pallet and someone is within 20m with Background Player. You just have to make lemonade out of lemons and go for the person with Background Player. If I see that a team is trying to go down at pallets intentionally, I'll try to swing super late to bait out the pallet drop+get the hit, but smart players will either not drop the pallet or catch on pretty quick. And it won't work consistently if you play on crappy ping or wifi.
You can always run Fire Up to try and throw off the timing, but that requires you to run Fire Up, which is a huge downside.
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Background player needs to go. Its just such a dumb perk to go against. It offers no real counterplay and make the gap between facing SWF and SoloQ worse, since its much stronger perk in the hands of a coordinated team (which is already strong by itself). They should nerf it back to the previous version (150% sprint for 4s) or even rework it entirely.
Imagine having to equip Empathy to counter old Eruption? Lightborn its a meme perk and shouldn't be required to counter something in game, specially since flash save are easily countered if there is no Background Player in the match.
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The complaints about BGP and pallet saves are overblown. Survivors can work the same strategy with Power Struggle. It may even be more efficient since it’s one survivor off a gen versus two.
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Except they will have to dedicate half their build to do that because you need Flip Flop to do that with Power Struggle. And that still has counter play as the killer can just pick the survivor up instantly and avoid it. The only way Power Struggle/Flip Flop works is if someone else comes to distract them, in which case it is similar to BGP but requires 2 perks instead of 1 and I can still just chase the distraction instead of picking up, unlike BGP where I can’t as the survivor isn’t nearby.
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Lightborn and Fire Up
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This is a Background Player issue tbh.
If you remove Flashbang from the picture, they will just swap to Flashlights or Pallet Stuns.
Background Player is, unfortunately, too good at doing its job. It provides too much speed, lasts way too long, and has an easy proc condition.
People used Sprint Burst before, since it was the only effective option, but it required good timing to use effectively for a save, and it’s speed and duration were balanced as well, it was fair since it took skill and positioning to get right… Background Player skips all of that and pretty much hands the Survivors a free save on a silver platter.
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True, but that would still be more efficient than BGP as it requires only one person to occupy the killer. But can the killer really avoid the pallet stun so easily? I’d argue not.
The same way a person with BGP could rush up to get the pallet stun is the same way a person could do it with Sprintburst or by simply following the killer until they get a down under a pallet. Either way it’s to the detriment of survivors as they’re not on gens.
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I don’t really have an issue playing against it as killer. On survivor, my flashbang save build is tied for my most used build right now.
Flashbang timing requires the survivor to be pretty close, even with BG player. This makes it incredibly easy to bait. Once you know they have bgp and/or flashbang, just be more deliberate with your pickups. They cannot linger far away and still hit the bang save, so you know they will be close. Bait the pickup and you will 90% of the time see them start to move in.
Pallets are really only a problem when it comes to coordinated teams on coms. It’s not an issue in majority of my games, maybe once every couple games somebody will pallet save with BGP.0 -
Background Player is a severe case of "great for solo, horrible for SWF" design. Intentionally dying under pallets and having fellow SWF members around for the pallet save (or simply to threaten it until Flip-Flop + Power Struggle do the trick) has always been something that is problematic, but in the past the killer at least still knew the potential rescuer has to be in the immediate vicinity, and could relatively reliably chase them out of range or even get free hits and downs by finding them around the pallet or baiting the pick-up. With Background Player however, unless you are Blight or Nurse, there just isn't really a way to chase someone out of range or secure the perimeter. In solo queue on the other hand, not only do other players not know someone else might have Background Player, but intentionally dying under pallets isn't something people commonly do to begin with, as they can never know if another survivor is around or let alone whether they will even attempt to pallet save even if they are, not least because that other survivor might not realize they are under a pallet. Background Player makes opportunistic pallet saves more reliably possible in solo scenarios, and it also makes it more "efficiently" possible, in the sense that the survivor attempting to get a pallet save doesn't have to constantly run after chases just on the off-chance that a survivor will die under a pallet.
While they could nerf Background Player itself and probably should tone it down a bit regardless, it is far from the only perk that is problematic if a full SWF abuses it in a coordinated way. The real solution is to limit SWFs to only be able to use 1 instance of any perk between them. They can still use Background Player, but it will only be 1 player that has it, not only allowing for the possiblity that the Background Player player will be the one going down themselves, but also rendering this tactic much less reliable seeing as how not everyone can be on the perk, nor Flip-Flop + Power Struggle.
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In todays decision of what will we nerf today from survivors because we are too lazy to pressure the survivors away:
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ah yes lemme pressure the survivors from the other side of the map
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Can we at least fix the bugs that make flashbangs stronger than they are intended to be?
Sound occlusion makes the drop silent and survivors can glitch themselves into the killer during the pick up animation, which allows them to blind the killer even if they press their face into a wall.
Other than that I'm mostly fine with both flashlights and Background Player. Although, I'll admit I like facing 4 people with Background Player about as much as I liked playing against Boil Over squads.
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I honestly still think the issue is the .4 second buffer of the flashlight saves rather than Background Player. Many flashlight saves and flashbangs feel pretty undeserved when the timing became more forgiving.
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Bring Lightborn instead of one of the 4 slowdown perks that carried you.
You're welcome.
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Flashbangs we're already difficult enough to use. The killer should not be blinded when facing a wall however, at the same time though if that's getting fixed then so should the killer being able to clip through the person being unhooked to hit the survivor doing the unhooking. This has ruined many games for me alone because of how fake it is.
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revert background player back to 4 seconds or put it back at 150% speed at 6 seconds. It way to strong as is right now
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The killer should not be blinded when facing a wall however, at the same time though if that's getting fixed then so should the killer being able to clip through the person being unhooked to hit the survivor doing the unhooking.
Isn't this what we want though? For the killer to go after the unhooker instead of tunneling? I honestly think this might be better as intended feature. If the unhooked survivor completely lost collision with the killer and their power, this would benefit survivors more than killers.
So I see less of an issue with this bug in particular.
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You're not understanding, you can be unhooked and forcefully take a protection hit for the person who just unhooked you, yet with body clipping behind disabled for a few seconds it doesn't work. That NEEDS to be fixed. And I've played 8 games in a row today and all 8 I have been targeted and tunnelled, so your suggestion of leaving it be makes no sense.
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No, I think I do understand.
But if you take that protection hit, the killer has all the more reason to tunnel you because the base kit endurance effect is gone immediately, so a potential OTR is too.
Anti tunnel measures are not meant to be used as a protection for anyone but the survivor that was just unhooked because that defies their purpose. That's why old BT was nerfed.
Leaving it be would at least give the killer a chance to avoid tunneling. But that's not what I suggested. I suggested enforcing this further, so that the killer literally cannot hit you for the first 10 seconds after you were unhooked but you also cannot bodyblock them. This would make OTR a way better perk and weaken tunneling as a result while also removing potential for it to be abused.
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There is actually a bug to where you can use BP to go inside the killers model while they pick up making avoiding the save impossible. Wether facing a wall or not.
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I mean I can agree it's annoying but if they wanna do that just slug tbh I do hope in the future they do address it cause in some situations and what killer your playing there's legit no counter play
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The only counter to Background Player is its user, because a survivor can always mess up the timing.
Other than that, there is nothing you can do.
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whats Bs about flashbangs killers lose collision when picking up so even when facing a wall a Survivor can merge into the killer and drop a flashbang for a guaranteed uncounterable save.
its completely ridiculous and devs needs to give killers collision for doing actions
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What? Who says I bring 4 slowdown perks every game? If you’re gonna make stuff up at least keep it relevant to the conversation. The discussion is about the over tuned Background Player and a current bug/ exploit surrounding it
“Just bring lightborn” doesn’t help as well, a solution to an over tuned perk shouldn’t be another perk otherwise you just end up with power creep, where strong perks are countered by other strong perks and the strong counters get buffed to counter the counter ect, instead we need to work towards better balancing perks in the first place
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Okay seriously, how are you meant to counter it?
Post edited by Batusalen on3 -
I've never met a survivor that could time it right tbh so it's funny seeing people call it OP, probably should start by looking at the nearest edge of the map as they're far less likely to come from that direction.
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The problem it is also creating is the person unhooking you has now been instantly hit which guarantees a 1 hit kill because of the cheap unhook hit. That's why allowing clipping was better.
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perhaps forced hesitation?
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And people call me mad for always keeping lightborn on
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Yeah I have to admit I think I was wrong about this one, having faced it numerous times myself I find there is very little counter and especially when you down a survivor in difficult areas to protect yourself in.
I would go so far as to call Background Player an unfair and overtuned perk that probably needs to be looked at moving forward.
It isn't super urgent as I haven't seen it that much but when you do get teams exploiting this it can feel very unfair
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Does Lightborn stop flashbangs too? I heard Flashbangs were in like.. some different type of blind category.
If not, bring Lightborn. There's loads of killers telling survivors to bring anti-tunnel perks to deal with tunneling, etc. Bring lightbron to deal with light.
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Lightborn :)
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Imagine having to equip Empathy to counter old Eruption?
wdym? The aura shows up right before the hook. No need to run a perk to see that.
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Yes it does.
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I fail to see the problem with that. You shouldn't unhook when the killer is nearby and if they camp, then that still puts them at a disadvantage because you can force an exchange and get at least 3 people out with close to no effort.
Getting the 4th person out is a bit harder because it requires at least 2 people to come for the unhook.
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I'm beginning to feel like the answer is to slug Survivors so that they spend time picking up their teammates rather than go for saves
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What do you mean "you shouldn't unhook hen the killer is nearby and if they camp" lmao, do you want me to just leave my teammates to die on the hook?
Your analogy makes no sense here brother.
I would rather die on the hook than allow a teammate to be tunnelled and camped.
For endgame, yes it requires 2 people to come for the hook when all gens are done but midgame it doesn't always require 2 people unless the killer is experienced at camping the hook and waits patiently for the unhooking person and attacks them as they are mid animation.
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If the killer doesn't camp, then you should unhook when they are far away. If they do camp, then you get the exchange and because they don't apply pressure on the other survivors, you easily get the gens done and come for the safe afterwards.
It might help to read the full sentence. 😉
If you are unhooked and the killer goes for the person that unhooked you, then they are not tunneling. So I have no idea what you are trying to say with that second part.
Tunneling means that the killer picks one survivor and ignores the others as much as possible. I don't see the reason the killer should be punished for exactly that. Why should you get to decide how the killer has to play?Bodyblocking with base kit BT forces them to tunnel.
Most of us want tunneling to decrease, which would happen, if base kit BT worked the way I suggested, simply because for the first 10 seconds the killer would be unable to harm that survivor in any way and after that OTR and DS would still come in play. So it would be less efficient to chase that survivor in the short run. It would also remove the situations in which this anti tunneling measure is misused.
A camping killer can always get an exchange against a single rescuer. That was my point. There is no experience needed for that. That might have worked as an argument with hook grabs but they were removed. And pressing M1, waiting for the unhook to happen, then pressing M1 again isn't hard.
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there’s a bunch of exhaustion activating perks and addons you can equip
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I run a full aura build idiot, I dont rely on gen slow down I rely on aura reading get it right you doughnut.
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nearly every perk/addons that cause exhaustion is terrible. You got a couple solid ones like fearmonger aka mind breaker but not too many viable options
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