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Shared Hook Count, that's how to solve Tunnelling/Camping completely.
All survivors share a total 12 hook counts, and they won't die at all until the 9th hooks. This'll completely remove all the tunneling & camping in the game.
But at the same time, Gen Speed needs to be drastically reduces for this change, otherwise Killer will have no chance of winning at all.
What do you think?
Comments
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That is… Actually really interesting of an idea. I'll need to think that one over for awhile and it's implications.
Aside maybe certain strong maps and the current gen pace of the game of course.
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I don't think this'll stop tunneling tbh. The killer will just pick the survivor they think is the worst player and book it to them whenever said survivor is unhooked. They'd have to do some ping ponging in between at least to outpace gens, so this would be beneficial in that regard, but I'm still not so sure. I want my own lives, if that makes sense, especially if someone decides to throw or is just trolling.
Still, cool idea for a mode!
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what happens with the survivor who would get their 3rd hook before the 9 hook limit is hit?
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With this mechanic, Killers have to camp 9x60 seconds a Survivor to kill him… Or he'll need to chase that one Survivor down 9 times to kill him… That's more than enough for you to do all Gens and escape.. I guess?
For your second point, Survivors should always play like a team. Make it bannable for those who intentionally throw the game.
PS: Even for now, if anyone decides to throw the game, chances that the match will end in 4k anyway, so individual lives really doesn't matter much.
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It'll just be like 2nd hook I guess. Keep struggling…
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if we removed the skillchecks I'm oikay with that, somehow the "gameplay" where one is hanging dry on a hook indefinitely but has to hit skillchecks seems stupid.
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The more I think it over, the more I kinda like this idea.
- Tunneling would be massively nerfed since tunneling out the same person 9 times before gens are done is practically impossible.
- Promotes patrolling gens (or proxy camping) for other survivors instead of whoever is unhooked for maximum profit.
- Hooks become more of a focus than kills (I will get back to this note) and matches as killer may be less stressful.
The problems I can think of are:
- Current gen speeds. Problem is tunneling someone out is the best way to slow the game, and needing 9 hooks before anyone dies makes it kinda impossible to manage gens against halfway competent survivors. Would possibly need stronger gen regression to counterbalance it but I'd have to see the system in action.
- Endgame would be problematic for securing kills in general if you're not at 9 hooks by then, which is pretty normal for most cases. Could possibly make endgame even scarier and have any hook become an instant kill. Would need to rebalance/change perks like NOED though.
- Strong loops/tiles/perk combos would need rebalanced, changed or possibly even removed so most killers could keep up the pace. Good looping survivors can run the killer at least 1 gen at a time. We also have to keep in mind killers like Nurse and Blight over the weaker ones that definitely benefit from this better, though this system would make it harder even for those killers. Even if it's a little bit.
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I support this. Even for now the skill check feels really dumb, and its only function is for survivors to kill themselves…
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Sure, the killer can't entirely focus on one person now, but this won't stop a killer from hooking a different survivor then going "hmmm who next, the Nea I just hooked was pretty bad, and the Meg was a decent looper." Or even worse, the killer doesn't have a hook and still goes back to unhooked survivor for the same reason.
I'd argue this might make solo q more miserable, as now the tunneling can go on for much longer if the team is ignoring gens for whatever reason. I hate to say it, but sometime's when the game is already decided, giving up is just a better option timewise, or for hatch. It's why a killer can open the exit gates.
Still, an interesting idea, and I like it in concept, but I don't think the game or it's playerbase is ready for that kind of shakeup.
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I like your idea but not everyone plays this game to win I play to get content I let my teammates know in pre game chat if theyre on console that sucks but I dont care about escaping every game so making that ban able is not a good idea. You cant force me to play the game how you want to. Baning people for having fun in a game is the quickest way to lose your player base youre going to need a ranked and unranked mode if you want to ban people for having fun. The other problem is then what do you consider throwing? Is not sitting on a gen the whole match throwing is playing stealthy throwing is going for head ons throwing you see where im going with this? Not everyone wants to play how you play.
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if this happens 3rd health states on survivors need to be gutted and gen speeds need to be longer.
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What I mean for banning is those who purposefully throw the game, like just stand there and let the killers hook you.
But whether or not the system can detect this.. we don't know LOL
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Okay that I can agree with maybe not banned at first but like a hefty penalty I can get with that. Then if you repeatedly afk and throw on purpose a ban.
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I think the thing most people fail to see is that tunneling and camping just aren't things the devs want to remove from the game, there are a million ways to go about changing it but the devs just don't want to change that much at once they want to do safe small bursts of changes to 1 character and maybe a few other perks and specific things at a time. Something that involves changing a large portion of the game like removing a mechanic or playstyle require a mountain of work and if not all done at once would likely mean a massive drop in player counts if not in a playable state and even then people likely won't like the new metas that form.
Camping would still work since while its shared hook states defending someone on a hook deprives someone of hooks later down the line
Slugging would skyrocket whats the point of putting someone on a hook when slugging them can kill them outright without a song and dance of potentially hooking a survivor 9 times
1 for 1s can quickly drain a teams resources so each hook can be stretched into 2~3 if a killer patrols well
Gen times could easily have to be 2x as long to make up for most killers
Top tiers would likely still top tier and can easily shift into slugging compared to killers like clown
Overall just no thanks, I don't like the kind of game a change like this would create
An ideal anti-tunneling change wouldn't be a removal it would be a mechanic to weaken it while incentivizing going after other survivors, and ideally weaken a situation where it is most frowned upon like at the start of a match
For example protection for the first survivor hooked each match to prevent tunneling off the bat
New mechanic: Drained
The first survivor hooked each match gains a new status effect, Drained, this lasts until another survivor is hooked or until they are hooked again. A drained survivor has a ~-10% gen and healing speed penalty (non stacking only using highest form of slowdown aka 4 stacks of thana would only be 20% slowdown and 3 stacks would still only be 10%) if a drained survivor is hooked they don't lose another hook stage
Aka to tunnel the first guy out of a match you would need to hook them 4 times in a row. But if you go after others you can go back to them later and kill them in 3 hooks. As a reward for not tunneling you get a reduced gen and healing speed from the survivor and as a penalty for tunneling you would need to chase them again.
That would be proper a anti-tunnel change
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Interesting idea and I am up for ANY mechanic that discourages tunnelling and encourages more chases.
In an ideal fantasy world I would love to see the game be able to cater to those who wish to play immersed and scared and those who want chases and for killers to feel they have the time to engage in fun chases.
I used to enjoy being immersed but became more aggressive the longer I played and sadly it is very hard to get killers to commit to chases too much these days and that is unfortunate.
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I kinda like this idea too. Obviously for it to work we’d have to balance the game around 9 hooks so killers would need significant buffs but given no one could be tunneled out, literally, that seems reasonable.
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I think the weakest survivor is going to get hooked 9 times in a row.
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i would like to see this as ptb or as one of those event modifiers like Light out. I am very curious to how the game would play out.
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Gen times would need to drastically increased and maps changed for shorter chase times or killers would have no chance.
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I would really like that as well, it would be really great to test. I would anticipate extremely lower kill rates until they buffed killers a lot. Idk about you but in my survivor games I see an extremely large amount of killers that win through tunneling but realistically with how well they were playing would have lost badly if they hadn’t. So I think the tunneling is propping kill stats up a metric ton.
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I agree i think this would be cool would need a bunch of tweeking but have it run on like a one month ptb with multiple patched on the ptb till they get it right.
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Imagine being stuck on a hook for 8 minutes... how fun.
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A voluntary system where survivors can give up a hook state to bolster someone who is being tunneled would be good. That way a person who is throwing can't suck up everyone's hook states. Some players might be selfish, but it would be their best interest to keep a tunneled survivor alive, as that's free time to do gens and escape.
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Wouldn't stop tunneling honestly. Just go after the injured survivor. Every. Single. Time.
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First off I think a hybrid version would be better. Each Survivor gets 2 personal hooks (current first stage, and death), and a shared pool of 4 (current 2nd stage) hooks. That way if Surv A got hooked 8 times, they couldn't deny Survs B/C/D their unhook perks.
I think it also would need all anti-tunnel features to work on a per hook basis (current DH, DS, OTR, etc.). That way it still encourages the Killer to not get hit by the third DS and go for the unhooking Surv instead.
People worried about gen speeds as a result are essentially self-reporting to tunneling every match. If someone plays without tunneling, your MMR is balanced assuming that. If someone plays through exclusive tunneling, that is the equivalent to a Survivor running a 52 charge toolbox every match, and would have to lose to the point their MMR reaches their skill level (without crutches) once again.0 -
Yea and that would 99% guarantee a loss for the killer even with longer gen times plus you would still have a 50 50 on getting that tunneled survivor out at end game.
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Even though it is an interesting idea, there are multiple cons to this. Probably the biggest one being the fact that the kill counts would plummet hard. It would also mean that the gen speeds need to be extended and jungle gyms nerfed, which would make gameplay worse for survivors. And I still think it wouldn't take out the tunneling. It might even increase it.
And the hook timers needs to be shortened.
All and all, it would make the gameplay worse for everyone
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This is what I think should happen too.
Probably not a basekit feature, but a perk or even a medkit add on.
When healing a survivor you press the secondary button to trade one hookstate. Only works if they're on death hook and you haven't been hooked yet. And it can only work once per survivor, so only twice per game (survivor A to B, survivor C to D).
It should have a telegraph too so the killer knows. Or just give killers the hookstates in the HUD.
This could give up to 2 survivors 4 hookstates, which would greatly impact tunneling.
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This won't stop tunneling cause of injury economy.
The way to counteract this for the highest advantage is to go after wounded survivors, preferably the ones who are weaker in chase. Ensure they can't heal and keep throwing them on hook as fast as possible to burn through hook stages.
If anything it encourages camping, because you want to reduce the number of times you hook as much as possible.
The meta becomes keeping survivors injured and camping out hook states, trying to injure survivors before they get the unhook and deny an extra hook state.
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while i do like the idea it would need to come with changes most of the survivor community surely wont like.
for the game to be around atleast 9 hooks bevore anyone is dead gens would need to be slower and survivor already complain about gens cause they are boring but what is probably more important chases would need to be shorter. from what i hear chases are what most people have fun with but if i need to get nine hooks to kill anyone there is not space for nine chases the lenght they are right now. maybe the first two or three could be as long as they are right now but after that every recourse needs to be depleeted and the map is basicly a big dead zone so chases are short
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This is not the way. This also would bring the age of slugging. The reason the killers tunnel is for the balance be shifted in their favor. Chasing the same person over and over, even the weak looper, would take too much time and not sway the game. The result would be slugging. Then this also brings back camping in a new form.
I have touched on this subject and placing the first hook into a jail or timeout might work. This would be for first hooks and only if within X amount of game time, hooks, or gens completed met the criteria. This would ensure the survivor gets to play a longer match and the gen speed could be slowed for the Killer without needing to remove a player immediately. Opinions are welcomed.
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i say test this in a limited time gamemode
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Would it solve it at all? Surely this system would just force the weak link to participate in every chase and the strongest player to be disallowed from playing the game? All that changes is the amount of times the weak link can let your team down.
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Interesting idea but it would take MASSIVE balancing changes, on top of being subject to abuse.
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It's an elimination game, I don't think you can change that element and still retain the DbD experience. Having a bunch of shared hook states would make the game less intense, but I'm not sure that's what people want.
As mentioned, you'd also need slower gens to compensate this, again reducing the excitement of the game.
All that changes is the amount of times the weak link can let your team down.I just said why I think it will be a problem, but I don't think this would be an issue. Even if someone is awful at chase, there is almost no scenario where them getting into 9 bad chases is inferior to 3 bad chases and then out of the game.
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This would make tunnelling even more annoying. Imagine a killer that wants to get you and you get tunneled 10 times in a single match, I wouldn't even blame those people for DCing
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So you really enjoy everyone being slugged for the 4k every match?
Because this would only turn DBD into Slugfest-a-Rama.
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As an addendum to my previous point, another severe problem with shared hook states...
Why bother saving a survivor? If a survivor is on hook, there is no agency to save them. A fellow survivors value is only as far as the time they save on completing a gen.
What is more valuable? Spending 90 seconds repairing a gen? Or spending 15 seconds running to a survivor, unhooking them, spending 16 seconds healing them, spending 15 seconds running back, and now repairing the generator with 2 of you 30% faster?
If you had just left them on hook, you complete the gen in your standard 90s. If you don't leave them on hook, you complete the gen in 46s + 67.5s, which is~ 115s, and that's assuming the killer leaves you alone the whole time. You only unhook now when it's convenient, and otherwise just crank gens.
As long as all 4 of you don't go down all at once, there is no means of the killer generating pressure other than trying to keep everyone injured and camping out hooks states, or constantly slugging everyone to death. Probably some combo of both.
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My brain immediately thought of people running No Mither and Throwing. Just to waste hooks
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This would just encourage tunneling the weakest survivor 9 times while kicking gens in between to use the readily available Pop proc, not to mention Surge suddenly seeing its usage fly even higher than it already is.
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I think it's better for the survivors chances at winning and minutely more interesting for the person getting tunneled, but at the cost of all stakes in the game for everyone else there who have to just spend 9 hook stages pumping gens. I can't think of much I'd want to do less than hold m1 whilst a killer hyperfocuses on the one survivor they know they can catch for 5 straight minutes
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No more hatches, it's all 4k or all escape, very nice.
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Here is my thoughts
Team is given 10 Free Hooks (You cannot ######### but if you're not rescued it culminates another hook loss)
Getting a second hook from the first gives you an auto get off feature.
Gen speed reduced by 5% (could be more) natural progress
Dying can be recovered until the 4th hook (making sure the game doesnt end prematurely on bleedout KOs)
After the 4 free hooks all Moris can occur/used
After 10 hooks you get hooked you die
Yes I am reducing the overall hook count but that is balancing but I am giving protection from Moris until the 4th hook loss
Hatch is last player never changes0
