if Genrush is a thing, Killrush is also a thing.
Just sharing my World Record Billy Match that got a 4K in 1m 54s.
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Wow congrats on the world record!
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gj nice but they played meh lol
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That I guess that's the point… If they didn't play meh, I would not have got the World Record.
Post edited by D3spair on10 -
"Gen rush" hasn't really been a thing since they changed BNP.
No such thing as "kill rush" just killers who play well enough and survivors who screw up enough to allow quick kills.
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BNP is stronger than before, though. It's an unrecoverable amount of progress against the killer. That's 40 seconds survivors can instantly complete on a gen that can never be regressed. That's far more powerful than old bnp.
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I had a game similar to that a couple years back, also on Shelter Woods funnily enough. Didn't clip the whole thing unfortunately:
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The old BNP before all that was an instant gen completed. It used up the toolbox and addon.
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it’s definitely not. The original BNP instantly completed a generator. Shaving 10% off a gen isn’t even close to equivalent.
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Sorry, I meant the BNP before the more recent change. Not the original original version.
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I meant the one before the newwe change where it just added free fast progress. I didn't mean the original original version. My bad.
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As has been pointed out by others old BNP is what I was referring too. Genuine "gen rush." or Gen-uine HAH!
1 gen gets completed at game start then 4 more pop almost simultaneously less than a minute later. If you haven't insta mori'd someone before that happens then you are out of luck and even if you have, you are still down 4 gens with 3 survivors up after roughly 2-3 mins of play.
Real "gen rush" hasn't existed for a long time.
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A really long time, for sure. BNP was changed with patch 1.5.3, and that was the end of the insta-gen.
Then we had the BNP with the skill checks every 2 seconds, which is rarely even mentioned around here.
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i disagree (mostly)
yes, in some situations the irreversible 10 seconds of progress is better
but, old BNP on the best possible toolbox reduced gen time to 55 seconds solo. new BNP reduces (increases?) that to 65 seconds solo when used with the best possible toolbox. i think it's more frequent the 55 second gen gets completed before the killer can damage it, so the old BNP would be better in most scenarios
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I strongly and respectfully disagree on Gen Rushing not being a thing. 😅
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Gen rush still exist. There are still plenty people wanting to repair ASAP without interacting with the killer, with BNP and/or Prove Thyself despite both were nerfed. Is gen rush less effective than before? Yes. Does gen rush still exist? Also yes. Try some killers whose need setup time like trapper without Corrupt Intervention and see what happens in a lot of matches.
And related to the title of the thread, I know the thread title is a joke for showing a quick match with Billy. But if we are serious with the terms, the equivalent to gen rush in the killer side is tunneling without being necessary (for example, from the start of the game with 5 gens).
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You have to keep in mind, EVERY time they touch that gen, that's a 10 second head start. Killer chases them away? Next time they hop in the gen, that's another 10 seconds shaved off. In theory, a single BNP shaves off an infinite amount of gen repair time if a survivor would be continuously chased off from a gen and the gen regressed to zero. That's pretty darn strong. It's completely 10 seconds of unrecoverable regression every time a survivor touches the gen. Now, in reality, a gen isn't going to be able to be pressured that way indefinitely, but the point is, 10 seconds off isn't a one time benefit. Any time it regressed to zero, the next time a survivor touches it, it's another +10 seconds saved. That really can add up.
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i don't think it works like that
first of all, any time a killer completely fails to inturrupt a BNP gen there's more value there, like i said before.
second of all, if the survivor got chased off with old BNP and made it back to the gen while it's still above 10%, that gives more value than the new BNP
third of all, those 10 seconds saved only count if the survivor manages to complete the gen. put it another way, every time the killer chases the survivor off the bnp gen that adds 10 seconds to the gen time
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Maybe you just misunderstood. For example, on the BNP before the buff, it merely gave free progress. However, if the survivor is chased off and it regresses to zero, then the BNP gives absolutely no value. Once a survivor hops back on the gen, they start from 0%. The killer could entirely counter the entire effect of the BNP. However, that's not possible with the new BNP. If the survivor is chased off and it regresses to 0, the moment another survivor hops on the gen, they effectively get +10 seconds instantly. No matter what, survivors get a 10 second benefit with the new BNP. Pre-buff, killers could entirely erase all of the BNP's effect.
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no, i don't misunderstand, your math is just wrong. i could talk more about the majority of situations, where old BNP is better, but lets just explain your idea
Scenario: Survivor gets BNP and 10 seconds of toolbox use on the gen. They get chased away, it regresses to 0. As it regresses, they use the last bits of their toolbox somewhere else.They come back and get 20 seconds of progress on gen, get chased off a second time and it regresses to 0. They come back, get another 30 seconds of progress, once again chased off and it regresses to 0. Finally, they come back and complete it from zero all in one shot.
With old BNP: Spend 10 seconds working on the gen the first time, 20 seconds working on it the second time, 30 seconds working on it the third time, and 90 seconds working on it the last time. Total work time 150 seconds
With new BNP: Spend 10 seconds working on the gen the first time, 20 seconds working on it the second time, 30 seconds working on it the third time, and ONLY 80 seconds working on it the last time. Total work time 140 seconds
as you can see, the amount of time spent working on the gen is only reduced by 10 seconds, even though the survivors were chased away 3 times. that's why you were mathematically wrong when you said " Next time they hop in the gen, that's another 10 seconds shaved off" and "In theory, a single BNP shaves off an infinite amount of gen repair time"
we also forget scenarios where a killer guards a BNP gen so well that survivors have no choice but to complete other gens, in which case the survivors also get no value from the BNP (but in both cases, old and new BNP, it ends up providing the same amount of value - none - so i guess no point bringing it up anyway)
installing a BNP is like making a promise with the gen. the gen says, "ok, if you get 80 charges done on me, then I'll give you the remaining 10 for free." the charge reduction means nothing if you don't get the gen to 80 charges. only when you get to that number does the BNP mean anything, so the BNP only saves 10 seconds once - right when that gen gets to 80 charges of repair. yes, the new BNP is better in those situations. those situations are just rare (think of how many times you inturrupt a gen and it gets regressed to 0, and then completed, vs how many times gens get completed in general) and the BNP itself can only ever save 10 seconds
Post edited by MagicDragon on2 -
Survivors who prioritize gens over all else (like saves or healing) aren’t so much a thing anymore because if one survivor dies at 3-5 gens the survivors are destined to lose.If survivors are grouping up with Prove on anything besides the last gen they aren’t rushing anything. And the current BNP doesn’t really create an opening for gen rushing because again, if one survivor is taken out of the match at 3-5 gens the remaining survivors are unlikely to complete enough to escape.
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you can focus on gens but you can’t really rush them like the old days of BNP. Focusing on something isn't really the same as rushing it.
Same goes for killer too, you focus down one survivor but your not really rushing it.
What happens is people forget what real gen rush was or weren’t around for it so they move the goal post to meet what they think gen rushing is because the term is still used but it really doesn’t mean what it used to.1 -
you are allowed to. Just making the point that the original concept of gen rush is thing of the past and what most people call gen rush now is just game play.
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Nice game, really impressive getting the win in such a short period of time. I remember a game I plated as bubba like that but didn't record, happy you got the video
Sorry people are getting distracted talking about gen rush & missing the point
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Thanks man haha
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That’s fair and I get that, it just doesn’t always feel that way when I have recorded matches that end in 4 1/2 minutes because all the generators are done.
Even with me, hooking people left and right1 -
But if there was no tunneling then you wouldnt feel the need to gen rush that often
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Sure there will always be games that go south quickly. It’s possible to be checkmated in 3-5 moves too doesn’t mean they should ban the queen from moving for 5 turns.
It kinda goes to show even when you fix a problem, what happens is people just move the bar for that problem and continue to complain.
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The problem with this idea is one thing actually has little to do with the other.
Even if you were safe until all 4 survivors had been hooked once each, players would still try to finish gens as efficiently as possible. They would just take advantage of their new found safe status.Same goes for if gens lasted 10 mins each, killers would still eliminate survivors as efficiently as they could. Simply taking advantage of the extra time granted.
One is not causal of the other. Thinking they are is a very simplistic view.1 -
Well I wasn’t here when the bar was short, I joined in the last year so yeah I will complain a bit I guess being new compared to the vets here. I’m being pitted against players who’ve played for years on end, my matches end in 4 and a half minutes. It’s not fun for me when that happens, but then survivors get mad when I run all generator slow downs or have to start tunneling because 3 gens popped in my first 40 second chase lol
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Fair enough.
Let the survivors get mad though, you play how you need and by what you find fun. When players get mad at legitimate gameplay that's on them.
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It's simplistic because it's not that complicated. If a survivor is being hard tunneled by the killer then alot of the times the best thing to do is finish the objectives.
Now this can also apply to killers who tunnel as having less survivors in the game as soon as possible makes finishing gens more difficult and allows for more pressure.
It's not exactly rocket science and this is essentially the game by design. You just have to play it for what it is
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Sure mechanically its straight forward, but if you think gen rushing will stop if tunneling stops or vice versa then you're deluding yourself.
As I said one is not completely causal of the other. Player motivation isn't solely dictated by how quick the game goes.
If a player chooses to focus someone out then they will do that regardless of gen speeds. Same goes for gen rushing. Also players have very broad definitions of "tunneling" and see it everywhere even when its not there. So if a large proportion of "tunneling" is imagined, which it appears to be, then its not as simple as just changing mechanics.
"But if there was no tunneling then you wouldnt feel the need to gen rush that often" Players rush gens even when not being tunneled so you're point isn't accurate.
You are right on one thing simplistic is not the way to describe that statement, facile would be a better term.
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The issue with your condescending tone is it's not as spot on as you wanna believe. Yes players are gonna rush objectives regardless, but you're ignoring that there would be an increase in SIDE objectives without an intense rush meta.
If a killer has a power that requires survivors to interact with it in order to stop it (demo, unknown, plague etc) then having less incentive to tunnel a survivor and apply gen pressure will require the survivors to not rush gens and either heal if needed or break the killers metaphorical power line. This would lead to more games on average having a less sweaty and competitive feel for the more casual audience who makes up more of the player base than the top 1% who try to force their balance on the rest of the community as if they aren't playing a whole different game altogether.
By no means did I say that rushing on either end would ever stop but some type of value from not rushing would help more players on average. It's not something you also have to feel the need to get snarky about
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What you have here is no better than a guess at what might happen if players didn't feel rushed. Its not a bad guess but as I said "gen rush" and "tunneling" will happen independently of each other and that currently holds true even with killers who have a secondary effect (Demo etc).
So there is very little case to make for changing one to fix the other. While games where players are smashing gens can involve the killer trying to eliminate someone just as quickly, correlation isn't causation. "But if there was no tunneling then you wouldnt feel the need to gen rush that often" So this comment as a stand alone statement is an oversimplification of the discussion.
No more condescending than pointing out things aren't rocket science, but lets try and keep to critiquing the argument and not the person, they are two different things. No one said you were facile even though your point was. Don't take any of this personally, its not that important.
So I stand by my point, you'll just have to feel about that as you choose.
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