dont survivors realize it difficult to play killer against strong survivors?

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survivors just complain about tunneling and slugging and camping and noed but dont realize its difficult to play killer. managing time, perks, choosing chases. its only 1 person vs 4.

survivors have each other to rely on but the killer is all alone, and have to be ur own ally

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  • crogers271
    crogers271 Member Posts: 1,424
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    I should hope it is difficult to play against strong survivors. The idea of a game being difficult when matched with a strong opponent is fine. When the game rises to the level of completely impossible, we have a different story and I think that far more frequently happens to survivors.

    its only 1 person vs 4.

    survivors have each other to rely on but the killer is all alone, and have to be ur own ally

    It's 1 stronger person vs 4 frequently uncoordinated people. Outside of a small subset of the player base, having one side's strength spread out among more players is a weakness, not a strength.

  • Atsuka_Anarchy
    Atsuka_Anarchy Member Posts: 343
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    SBMM just has a skill floor of chaos. 😭

  • Xernoton
    Xernoton Member Posts: 5,368
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    Agreed. Although, sometimes it does not matter whether or not you're average or good because your loss was already decided in the lobby when everyone picked their loadouts.

    You could be the most insane survivor of all time but against Starstruck Nurse on Midwich, there was nothing much that could be done (I'm glad that is a thing of the past). The same could be said for some of the weaker killers. You can perform good with all of them but you will not be able to make up for their lack of power by equipping meta perks, when you play against the strongest teams the game has to offer.

    Obviously most of us aren't in that very unfortunate position (I assume most of us aren't "high MMR monsters") but it still doesn't feel great when you need to play A LOT better than your opponent just to have a chance. Take Freddy and Trapper for example. You don't have much to actually get good with so their counterplay remains relatively straight forward and simple (note, that I do not call it easy).

  • C3Tooth
    C3Tooth Member Posts: 8,140
    edited April 10
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    I played 50 matches as no slowdown Myers with 73% kill rate. There are only 2 arguments on this:

    • If their matches are harder because they're at higher MMR than me, means their kill rate should be higher than 73%, which is completely killers sided.
    • If they're struggle to get a kill that much with killers that higher tier than Myers, which means…its the lack of skill on their side.

    There is no way you're struggle to ever get a kill but stay on high MMR.

  • Xernoton
    Xernoton Member Posts: 5,368
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    DBD is a difficult game. So I would say that both are true. They aren't mutually exclusive.

    However, both sides can stack so many things in their advantage, that the game becomes a lot easier. Meaning, you could play in a full SWF, send yourself to GoJ (or the new map, which is still fine-ish) and bring the strongest possible perks and items and 3 patrified oaks to make sure the killer will spend even more time hooking. Or you play Skull Merchant (I only picked SM because I conceive her as pretty easy) on Midwich with the best possible build and addons and tunnel someone immediately.

    I also find it a bit difficult to call solo queue hard, based on the results alone, because there are a lot of things out of your control. So it's not like you could always just play better yourself and win. Even if you were to play on tournament level, you would still lose against an average killer, if your 3 team mates have an aversion to gens and also go down in seconds.

  • JPLongstreet
    JPLongstreet Member Posts: 5,432
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    I too would like to see a different & more robust MMR system, but how can we complain about the matchmaking while lobby dodging and shipping wreak it anyway?

  • Ayodam
    Ayodam Member Posts: 2,353
    edited April 10
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    I don’t feel DBD itself is a difficult game. And while yes there are many things about solo queue that are beyond an individual survivor’s scope of influence, playing in a self-preserving way can really help you escape.

    Soul survivor, wake up, distortion, left behind (or a key). You contribute toward the match in ways that don’t attract the killer’s attention (don’t take aggro, don’t be bold). You’ll make it to endgame and with this build regardless if the hatch is closed or not, you’re likely to get out. You can additionally contribute normally to a match and just use this build as a plan B in case the survivors fail to complete 3-5 gens before someone dies.

  • sinkra
    sinkra Member Posts: 287
    edited April 10
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    Playing killer feels far more relaxing for me.

  • pseudechis
    pseudechis Member Posts: 3,903
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    Most teams aren't coordinated enough to make a difference.

    The problem lies in this weird concept that the killer should split their time relatively evenly between each survivor in the name of fairness.

    The reality is identifying which survivors are weaker than others and capitalizing on that is part of the game. Utilizing tactics and perks to maximize this is also part of the game.

    The problem isn't that survivors are too coordinated or that killers are too weak.

    Its that players expect a certain game style and lament when they don't get it. They do this without realizing that the game they want plays into the survivor strengths and its frankly silly to expect your opponent to play to your strengths.

    It's no that players don't appreciate how strong a coordinated team can be, but more they don't seem to realize they are playing DBD.

  • Xernoton
    Xernoton Member Posts: 5,368
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    And while yes there are many things about solo queue that are beyond an individual survivor’s scope of influence, playing in a self-preserving way can really help you escape.

    I agree with that but I would still not base difficulty on the stats alone but on the actual performance. How much progress do you need to make, how much information do you have to base each decision on, how long do you need to last in chase etc. are in my opinion better markers to determine difficulty. In that sense I think playing survivor (solo or in a SWF, though even more solo) is pretty hard.

    There are a lot of things for both sides that need to be learned like map layouts, safe and unsafe loops, mind gaming, decision making, prioritisation and positioning. That's why I would call DBD a hard game. When you start playing you have absolutely no clue what's going on and are thrown to the sharks. But eventually you wipe the floor with people that would have dominated you before because you become a lot better. There are also so many perks and addons to remember and learn counterplay for even if most of them are rarely ever used.

    I can't speak for the effectiveness of your build because I typically play in a more team oriented way. If you enjoy that build and have good results with it, then that's great. I think I'll stick with Bond + Open Handed, an exhaustion perk (mostly Lithe because it's easy to use) and something for extra utility though. It's too addictive. 😅

  • 09SHARKBOSS
    09SHARKBOSS Member Posts: 1,157
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    do you have an art forum page? and if not please do your art rocks

  • Ayodam
    Ayodam Member Posts: 2,353
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    I just want to emphasize you can use the build I’ve suggested and still contribute toward mutual goals. You can even facilitate the escape of other survivors while using it. For me, it’s mostly a contingency should things fall apart. I don’t use it when I SWF, I coordinate perks with my mates. In fact I only use it with solo queue if I don’t trust what I see in the lobby (low prestige, poor man/default cosmetics, newbish names—numbers in them, etc).

  • Xernoton
    Xernoton Member Posts: 5,368
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    That's a good point. Maybe, I'll give it a try. Though it'll be weird not seeing my team mates the entire time.

  • Spare_Them_Mori_Me
    Spare_Them_Mori_Me Member Posts: 1,328
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    Trapper is 10 times the killer Nurse is. Don't you forget it! :P

  • Commander_Nefarious
    Commander_Nefarious Member Posts: 63
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    so ur saying i should shoot for 2 kills every match, doesnt sound like a win to me unless the game would say victory like 2 kills and 10 hooks as a win, what do u play and hours?

  • Pulsar
    Pulsar Member Posts: 20,547
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  • Pulsar
    Pulsar Member Posts: 20,547
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    If you're playing a team equal to you, which going off of your comments, seems like you think that's the case then yes.

    You should be expecting a 2K, since that's balanced and that's what the game wants to shoot for.

  • Xernoton
    Xernoton Member Posts: 5,368
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    A bit of both, yes. In order to remain calm, you first have to notice that you are getting stressed. That's the first part of the mental component. Now you need to refocus despite the stress, which is emotional and then you have to develop a new plan because what you did prior, clearly didn't work.

    That is on top of the myriad of things you need to account for, remember and pull off mechanically.

  • Sarrif
    Sarrif Member Posts: 110
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    Alright did it, turns out letting bubba rev his chainsaw near hooks is a super easy way to not only down the person recusing but also down the person being rescued even with the incredibly minor change to it.

    I threw on deadlock as well to secure it and as it turns out getting 30 seconds of free pressure for doing nothing is also not healthy for the game since they could not even rush gens to try and counter it. Ended up getting a 4 k because of how there's literally nothing survivors can do to counter a camping killer if they have more than room temp IQ.

  • Sarrif
    Sarrif Member Posts: 110
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    Did it, turns out deadlock let me get two kills before they even got to the final gen. And it's not like survivors can rescue against any ranged killer or in my case bubba. Got a four k in the end.

  • C3Tooth
    C3Tooth Member Posts: 8,140
    edited April 11
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    You can search C3_Tooth on Twitter, but I draw lewd sometimes…process with caution

  • Batusalen
    Batusalen Member Posts: 1,247
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    No, they don't. The same as they don't realize that most of the games they lose are because their teammates mistakes and bad decisions, not the killer doings.

    Whoever says the contrary has not played killer for long enough.

  • ChaosWam
    ChaosWam Member Posts: 1,290
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    Impossible

    Killers only win because killer is the easiest role

    Survivors only win when the killer is bad and can't play the game right (i.e. no tunneling, camping, proxy camping, no gen regression, no mindgames, no lighborn, no slugging, no hitting off hook, no skull merchant, no nurse, no blight)

    /s btw

  • Chaosrider
    Chaosrider Member Posts: 489
    edited April 11
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    If you play vs equal opponents it needs to be a 50:50 game. Thats how balanced gameplay would work. Expecting to get 4ks at this level is just entitlement. That only works if youre far superior to your opponents. And to your quastion, I have several hours more than you and I am only playing Trapper (or Nurse if i want challenges easily done in single games).

    It seems to be a skill issue on your end.

  • ImWinston
    ImWinston Member Posts: 181
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    "survivors have each other to rely on" … I suggest less streaming of survival main and more "real" game in soloq🤣

  • Commander_Nefarious
    Commander_Nefarious Member Posts: 63
    edited April 11
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    but that is just a draw for the killer, so killers get either a draw or lose. in other pvp games there is always a winner and a loser. draws are extremely rare, and the one that wins is the better team right, using all their knowledge and mechanical skills correct?

    so if i get skilled at the game to only get draws whats the point? if the game acknowledge my skills for example says victory instead of vague things like brutal,ruthless,merciless, and was direct i wouldnt feel as bad.

    and what of the survivors, the 2 that die, did they win or lose? and the 2 that made it out? did they win or lose?

    are survivors part of a team or are they individual?

    if they are individual then fine, im good with 2 kills 2 escapes.

    but if not then thats lame, its considered a draw and thats what is expected?

    conclusion is that if i put alot of time in the game to only get draws as the standard then the game doesnt reward the time invested

    make the game direct to the player: defeat, draw, victory so we can avoid all this confusion

    Post edited by EQWashu on
  • MagicDragon
    MagicDragon Member Posts: 63
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    …do you think games against strong survivor players should be easy?

  • Commander_Nefarious
    Commander_Nefarious Member Posts: 63
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    im saying thats the best case scenario , draw or lose. cant push further than a draw, thats my mentalitly always shoot higher and higher never conform, even in real life regarding careers and dreams, and its not entitled, i want to win with my skills not get handed the win, better side wins but if it always ends in draw then, whats the point

  • The_Krapper
    The_Krapper Member Posts: 3,187
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    If killers aren't good enough to get beyond a draw that's on them you can't blame survivors or balance for all your mistakes at some point it was your fault, people need to get over themselves thinking the game is just massively unbalanced like the early days of dbd , at some point people have to accept they aren't the best killer in the world, they aren't the next otzdarva just because they started streaming, skill does matter and just because you're having a rough experience as a killer that doesn't mean the game needs to adapt until you're unstoppable and can kill everyone with ease, it's up to the player to find ways to get better even if that means swallowing your pride and inviting the squad that just stomped you to a kyf to try and get better and trade turns playing killer you'll learn so much more doing that than you will in pubs all day

  • KerJuice
    KerJuice Member Posts: 1,851
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    Survivors in general are not the problem- it’s 3 or4 man SWF’s who make balancing this game miserable for Killers and solo que survivors.

  • The_Krapper
    The_Krapper Member Posts: 3,187
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    I would argue on most killers thats not even an issue anymore, it's solely up to the killer on who they pick and what they run, if I wanna be as sweaty as a 4 man genrush squad I can just as easily pull up my nurse and end that fairly quick, I like to play freddy, twins, oni, Billy and demo now because 95 percent of the survivors aren't a death squad and you can usually stand a chance with about anyone on the killer roster if you've got a little experience under your belt with said killer, I was a nurse main for years and honestly it's quite boring once you get good with her there isn't much survivors can do beyond throwing straight repair builds with toolboxes and dedicating to seperate gens .

  • Batusalen
    Batusalen Member Posts: 1,247
    edited April 11
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    That would make any sense, if this game wasn't asymmetrical. In your "50/50" case, the killer draw because he did a 2K, two survivors won as survivors win by escaping by themselves, and two other survivor lost because they died.

    There is not 50/50 in this game, as survivors are not a team and if you die and your other three teammates get out, you have lost anyway. And you can't compare if your opponents are "equal" because they are not equal by design. Not their gameplay, not the skill needed to play them, nothing. You are either good at looping the killer and better at mindgames than him, or you are not.

    But that's a survivor problem, not a killer one. It's not the killer's fault if your teammates don't have enough game sense to make the right decision at the right time.

  • Chaosrider
    Chaosrider Member Posts: 489
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    It doesnt matter if its an asymmetrical design or not. Assuming that equal skill doesnt exist is ignorant on a fundamental level. Also it doesnt matter if theyre equal or not by design, cause the game itself sets them on an equal stage: The one is as powerful as the four summed up as a team. Survivors are not solo players.

  • th3syst3m
    th3syst3m Member Posts: 391
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    It's for sure solo survivors. A good killer can deal with SWFs, sorry if that isn't you.