Do you think any killers should be completely reworked?

I've been playing Freddy the past 2 nights.

6 straight 4ks with No Way Out, Terminus, Remember Me, and Fire Up. …I haven't even gotten value out of my build yet, I'm just having a blast with his base kit! 😂

I think he needs to be nerfed, ngl

While I'm mostly opposed to total reworks, Freddy definitely deserves a reversion to his on-launch design, maybe with his current teleport added on.

Otherwise, I think Spirit is the only character who is so poorly designed they need a rework on that scale. Her power is an accessibility issue, and without that, there's nothing to the power. That's a major issue.

I think if anyone else were to get a major rework, I'd want it to be Wraith, who is incredibly one note and uninteresting for both sides, Nemesis, who just isn't a good adaptation of the character, or Trickster, who lacks an identity beyond obnoxious Huntress. But I would moreso want them to be changed than have their powers scrapped.

Complete reworks from the ground up? Freddy and Skull Merchant.

Imagine that loadout on someone that has a power endgame

That's another stupid part about sharp hands Joe, he loses his teleport

Not working the first time isn't really an excuse to stop trying, Legion and Billy can attest to that. Regardless of how many arguments there are about whether or not Skul Merchant is fine power wise, we need to at least understand that poorly designed killers don't tend to get a bad rap after "good" reworks, so Skull Merchant is either an outlier, or there's something else going on.

And that's assuming she is fine. Her current power is extremely oppressive against new survivor, given her ability to apply so many status effects at once. She basically gets Undetectable whenever she wants, and in a much more expendable manner than other killers. Her power shuts down loops, can apply lasting debuffs, even get a cheeky hit, need I go on?

Now, I'm not gonna argue she's the best killer out there, or even that's she's a good killer in the first place, but I feel like it goes without saying that playing as her is significantly easier than playing against her, just by the way she's designed.

Do I know how to fix Skull Merchant? No, but I don't think throwing up our hands and saying "ah, it's fiiiiiiiine" is going to get us anywhere either. SM isn't suddenly going to become a liked or even tolerated killer until something changes, and that's a fact.

Oh I really hate reworks. First of because it may dont even help a character and just makes them bad. Freddy is an example that comes to mind but he is also the best example for someone that really needs a rework.

Another reason why I dislike reworks is that they often kill a character even if it works good and is fun in the end the specific playstyle of that character died in the process. Often times even character that are pretty mediocre have a fan base amongst the communitys and it always hurts to see them vanishing with a rework. I had this fear when they said they rework legion and to this day im thankfull it was only a light rework and where they didn't touch the concept of a character.

I had something likes this just recently in lol. They have reworked a chatacter i really like for a second time. First rework was like leguon a light rework where the character stay more or less the same. Now we have a full rework all abilities are different they gave him a grafik update. Now it's not the same character at all. All my hours learning that char are gone and something I loved to.play is lost

Freddy and Skull Merchant need full reworks.

None of these new "reworks". They need new powers (or in Freddy's case, modified old powers.)

Nurse obviously.

Skull Merchant is a total train wreck that should never have been released in the first place. She's already had 3 reworking and is nowhere near the problem she was before. Just a mess of random status effects chucked together now.

Saying that, I genuinely have no clue what you would do to her to make people stop throwing the game against her because its obvious a large number of the community have no intention of playing against her in any state. I think the devs will just not touch her again for years now, like with Freddy.

Similarly with Sadako, what do you do with her now? Rework after rework and I've played against her once since they nuked her months ago. She must the lowest played killer now?

Well, she doesn't have an AoE—Her drones fire out two beams that survivors can avoid through LoS blockers, or even just crouching or standing still for a second when it passes over them. Pixel Bush has made a guide talking about how you can aim these beams precisely before they activate, timing it so that they do right as a survivor would go past them, for one example of skill expression. It's an important distinction, because just placing a permanent AoE would be bad—and she doesn't do that. She used to, sure, but she doesn't now. There are plenty of different ways that SM can express skill and strategy with her power, that guide Pixel Bush made is one hour long or longer.

Playing against her isn't unlike playing against killers like Trapper or Hag or even Cenobite, who ask you to be more proactive in disabling the killer's power. I, personally, find it incredibly interesting to go against her. Besides, she is still an M1 killer—even if she uses drones in chase, you have the option of taking an M1 hit to avoid taking lock-on stacks or something, and if she doesn't catch you out in the open when you get a claw trap she has to chase you for that down normally. It's interesting, in my opinion, predicting what overall strategies she wants to employ with her drones and working to counteract them.

If I come off as aggressive, it's only because it's tiring seeing such ignorant takes on SM as if "total, ground up rework" is ever a good idea just because a lot of people don't care to learn the matchup.

"Do the devs make a statement that says "SM is fine, just learn to vs her?" Is that really going to benefit the community in the long run?"

I mean, they could. DbD could use better tutorials that teach you the details of killers' powers, games like Guilty Gear have great tutorials that specifically go into some particularly oppressive tools a character might have and guides you to counter those tools and gameplans. Even if they don't make a tutorial for it, they shouldn't just bend and rip the character apart because people whine. If she stays how she is and they make their intention to preserve her core design clear, it's likely that people will understand they need to learn what they're doing.

I mean, ideally—I admit DbD players are big fans of tantrums. But I don't think ruining a killer some people very strongly like for her unique gameplay is justified because a lot of people throw their hands up every match. If a tutorial and clarified intent doesn't help, then maybe they should make DC penalties worse or remove the ability to use self unhook to kill oneself. I don't know. I just think it's much worse to homogenize the roster than to preserve a design that maybe not everyone likes.

The recent buffs didn't do much (guess we pig mains where correct... Maybe they will listen one day…)

She's underwhelming but by no means deserves a rework.

Her power is unique and faithful, as you said.

No changes needed. Especially no "buffs".

Sure, such a playstyle does exist, such a strategy probably could use something of a nerf. But if we're going to base literally all of our opinions on a killer on the absolute worst they have to offer, then we should really also be preventing Wesker from being allowed to see infected survivors, to curb his tunneling, and we should make it so Spirit is visible while phasing to circumvent her accessibility issues, and we should probably also make it so cages of torment don't take a hook state to make Pyramid Head less of an effective tunneler.

If your argument is that she has some problems, yeah, I'd agree, I don't think she's perfect, she probably needs a little fine tuning, but she's far from the worst a game with characters like Spirit, Trickster, or Chucky has to offer. Having problems doesn't mean a killer needs to be scrapped entirely. If it did, we wouldn't have a game to talk about.

Freddy needs a rework really much.

Myers needs a nice rework as well.

Trapper needs buffs.

Sadako needs buffs.

Pyramid head needs a rework of his addons and the Torment mechanic.

Weakest killer in the game with no real chase power against survivors above 200 hours I fear

Some already said it : Myers.

His power isn't great, but he have busted addon for some reason. I don't really understand how an insta kill addon can remain so long in the game.

I wouldn't mind if the addon granted insta kill only on deathhook survivor (and would grant the kill also when they are downed, so people can't abuse lockers to avoid it). That with a basekit rework.

I'm taking everything from another thread to explain how I use Skull Merchant.

When I play SM and I want to be as ruthless as possible with this "play style"

Discordance (so they cannot stack a gen in my 3 gen without me knowing)

Pain Res (its faster to proc that POP 9/10 times so if you ever have a scourge hook nearby it will allow you to keep your 3 gen easier than pop)

Surge (because you are downing people generally near gens)

Deadlock (In reality most of the time you get 3-4 gens that can be played as a 3 gen and 2 not being able to pop in quick succession with pain res lets me very rarely not be able to force a 3 gen without needing to just rotate around 3 gens at the start of the map when 5 need to be completed)

I refer to the build as the fun police skull merchant.

This terrible diagram explaining how 3 gen on SM circles are drones and red squares are gens as long as you zone them northward to a map edge you will be given a hit or likely a tag into a down then you proxy camp a hood in your 3 gen if you are given a 4 gen or a scourge hook in a 3/4 gen you are set to make the game misery until the gen blockers had enough of your BS.

It is pure misery to play against but ive found its the best way to utilise her power you do not have to strictly adhere to everything but generally the best way to play her is PURE MISERY.

The 10 teams I won in a row against a few days ago 3 genning every game seeing the dbd community slowly coming to the conclusion SM is not that bad

Is Skull Merchant the worst killer to play against no

Is the bottom 3 YES YES YES YES YES

I want Sharp Hand Joe to be reworked into Freddy Krueger.

Actual rework, not just buffs or tweaks? Freddy and SM

Lots of killers with issues but most can be fixed through tweaks, buffs or QoL.

Can we rework some of these killer mains? That would fix a lot of the killer roster lol.

Otherwise definitely Freddy. Most definitely Freddy.

And SM.

Freddie deservers a rework more so then the others at this point