Tunneling deserves consequences (a mechanism to punish), don't you agree?
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Another solution is dramatically decreasing the bp if they hook a survivor 2 times in a row.
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Punish might be a bad choice of words, but made more difficult, yeah.
You list a lot of killers all with the ability to either return to the hook or hide around it (at least hiding fits the game design of those killers). I think it creates two game problems:
1: A couple of minutes into the game, maybe less than that, the survivors have to make a call on what they think the killer is doing. If they think the killer is setting up a tunnel, they need to stay on gens, maybe rush in and pop reassurance if they have it. But if a single one of the 3 uncoordinated survivors makes the wrong call and moves in too early, well the game is pretty much over already. I wouldn't even mind that if we didn't have such a long game ahead.
2: Even if the survivors make the right call, the player on the hook has the thrilling time of just sitting there. The right play requires the person on the hook to not suicide out of boredom.
How to fix it: this becomes a tough issue and there will be those who point out 'what about killers having to deal with SWFs?''. I doubt BHVR would even consider it, but the unhooked survivor entering in a ghost mode where they can't be hit and can't body block I'd be interested in seeing tested.
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30-40 seconds of complete immunity? That's insane.
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It was a spitball idea, in that instance, survivors won't be able to interact with objects either, such as repairing generators, going for pallet stuns, body blocks, cleanse totems, unhooks or flashlight saves. It's just a tool to prevent you from being put back on the hook immediately after being unhooked. the 30-40 seconds is long for sure, but its enough time for the killer to hopefully realise they are wasting their time with a "ghost" and they will back the frick off and go and find a different survivor to harass and actually play the darn game properly, instead of just focusing one or two survivors. The long timer is to guarantee that the killer gets the message, heck you could lower it down to 15-30 seconds after basekit BT has worn off. It's meant to be a deterrent without punishing the killer too harshly.
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I could get behind that. Even if it only made it to a PTB id love to see it tried.
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The only time I think a mechanic to punish tunneling should exist is for the first survivor hooked in a match, tunneling someone at at 5 gens 1 hook is just never a good look or is fun the rest of the time is usually fine though
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I do 100% think tunneling is out of hand in this game and should set back the killer more to make this a less favorable option. It would be hard to do something with the interaction from the killer side to prevent tunneling. A longer BT time, longer speed boosts for offhooked survivors kind of changes could help so that reacquiring a survivor, especially with 3 other survs on the map, would waste enough time to have a negative effect on the killers ability to accomplish his goal before all the gens are done.
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Do you mean like making the amount of time to do a gen take longer, wait they did that. Do you mean nerf toolboxes and "brand new part", wait they did that too. Maybe you mean they should add more gen slow down perks for killers, wait that has happened a lot. So I guess they should probably double the regression from a killer kick and or pop of some kind, wait that was enacted in the last patch. So it looks to me like survivors have been sufficiently "punished" for working on their objective. So back to the issue here, when is tunneling going to be addressed.
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great answer haha!
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There are a few issues with this suggestion.
30-40 seconds of complete immunity is quite a lot for a base kit effect. This might be a bit much. More problematic however is the part about TR and chases. The chase detection is a bit too wonky to be base it on and TRs can be manipulated by perks, addons and killer powers.
So it could potentially create issues when killers use perks to increase or decrease their TR as well as allow killers to circumvent the mechanic by using something to make them undetectable.
Don't get me wrong, more protection against tunneling is a good thing but it should work consistently.
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Absolutely. Currently, tunneling is way too easy to do for how strong it is.
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Yeah, as I said in a different comment, the 30-40 was just a giant spitball take with the idea in mind that having a survivor be immune that long would make a killer realise they're wasting time with a ghost, and said immune player can't do anything outside of opening chests to heal themselves, this would be to discourage survivors abusing the timer to do gens without fear.
Now that I've cooled down a little, I think 8-10 seconds after the base kit BT has worn off would be plenty, especially as you said, given the wonkiness of the TR detection and LoS for killers with smaller or larger TR with perks is also on the weird side (can't detect GF when he's right in front of you w/o cover, but can accidentally reveal him while he's behind a rock? yah I get it). 8-10 would also be enough to gain distance on killers like Nurse or Blight, so that way you don't go down in the open (if you can help it) or immediately after they catch up with you on hook.
I'd probably also introduce a penalty to the killer grade as well, like a large loss of BP if you hook the same survivor twice in a row without hooking someone else in between, though then I suppose that just encourages "strategic" tunnelling, where a killer will tunnel two people out while ignoring the other two survivors.
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No, I don’t agree
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Please tell us your idea! Do you mean that we should allow tunneling because it's your habit?
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What
What more is there to say? The killers objective is to kill the survivors by any means necessary. I don’t get upset at survivors for doing their objective or try to find ways to penalize them.
People will say “It ruins the experience for the survivor that is getting tunneled out because they won’t be able to play the game as long for that trial.” Now they know how I feel when my trial ends in 4mins and 50 seconds because I got gen rushed. 🤷🏼♂️
It’s part of the gamePost edited by MechWarrior3 on5 -
When you tunnel someone and fail to protect the gens, that's why they're completed so quickly. As a survivor who's lucky enough not to be a victim of tunneling, I feel free to work on gens. In one game, we managed to complete 3 gens successfully while the killer had only hooked one survivor for the first time. By the time the killer attempted to tunnel the second victim, all 5 gens were done. Tunneler rarely secures 4 kills; they just focus on tunneling and then complain about gens being completed too quickly. You should take notes on how to play from many YouTubers who consistently secure 4 kills (even when facing a bully team) without resorting to tunneling, camping, or using cheating add-ons like Tombstone. So, if you're frustrated about gens being completed too quickly, it's your fault (due to your bad habit). But if a victim feels bad about their trial, it's not their fault. Like many others said, when you win many trials in a row by tunneling and camping, you think you're good but you're not, the match matching system will take you to meet higher-rank survivors, then you'll cry more, and even try more to tunnel and secure at least 1 kill. I've had a few trials where the killer tunneled but didn't get a single kill LOL.
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If I needed help securing a 4K I would take notes…but I don’t need help doing that by any means…. I get plenty of those….I also will continue to keep tunneling should the situation or trial require me to do so or if I simply feel like doing it.
My MMR has been high for a very very long time, and I have 0 issues but that’s not the topic.The topic asked if I felt tunneling needed a punishment, so again. No… I don’t agree. 👍
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No. The harsher the mechanics you add to the game to prevent tunneling, the more killers who don't tunnel can get hurt by it. I've been playing for years and still to this day I frequently run into the last unhooked survivor completely by accident. That's not my fault and I shouldn't be punished for just playing the game. What they need to do is provide a solid reason to not tunnel so that maybe less killers choose to do it, or maybe it becomes less optimal compared to spreading hooks. Until the game rewards players for playing nicer, many will choose not to.
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ya I agree, I think a significant reduction in bp (if the killers choose to tunnel) will be somewhat effective.
As you said "I got gen rushed. 🤷🏼♂️". Remember, there are so many perks that explore the gens or decrease repairing speed. I think all your "4 kills" is by doing tunneling with low-rank survivors. During my first days playing this game, I met a lot of killers who successfully tunneled with newbies, and they said "EZ", at that time I also really thought they were good. But as I got better at playing, matching with higher-rank survivors, I found that tunnelers rarely got 4 kills. In your first comment, I simply saw you crying about gens rushed, now you say it's simply because you like tunnels (meaning you like to bother unlucky survivors and not really care about gens), that's so funny. Ya, it's your playstyle, your choice. As I agreed with "cluxdx", my title "punishment" but I don't really mean it literally (ya it's my bad in using the word), I mean that BHVR should have a way to encourage the killers not to tunnel, because the game should be fun for everyone.
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No, and the devs already have their own rationale for not trying their utmost to minimize tunneling. All the basekit or perk ideas in the world doesn't matter if the motivation to implement them isn't there.
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Here is just our discussion. We still don't know for sure about that rationale. Maybe because most of P100 loyal players have decent gameplay, and the devs focus on their main customers. Camping and tunneling on the other hand affect the expansion of the community, if they are interested in taking the game further then they will consider it.
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Gen rushed doesn’t always equal a loss. I also rarely lose if I tunnel. Do I have to tunnel…no…sometimes it’s useful..Not sure why you’re so bothered by my comment, but hey to each their own.
Just because I mentioned it doesn’t mean I am “cryin” about it. It’s part of the game but when I tunnel that’s also part of the game. Imma keep doing it too. Been working out for me just fine. 🤷🏼♂️
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It's okay, I understand that sometimes tunneling is a solution depending on the situation, as you mentioned. When I play as a killer, I don't intentionally tunnel, but sometimes the unhooked survivor just happens to appear right in front of me, LOL. One of the most amusing experiences as a survivor is engaging in a Tom & Jerry-like chase with the killer, in a decent manner. Often, while the victims don't have a decent chase, the remaining survivors can't enjoy the pursuit. Even when they intentionally make themselves visible, the killers just ignore them and also overlook those who are repairing generators nearby. Initially, for many players, escaping is nearly the only goal. However, after playing for a while, a game focused solely on repairing generators and escaping becomes dull. I think we still need to find a solution for killers who seriously and consistently resort to camping and tunneling.
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What if 1) when the killer hooks, it is automatic teleported to the most progressed gen (so he can pressure gens and the map and find a new chase). This also denies camping and hinders tunneling. Both sides get something. Then, to reward NOT tunneling, if the killer is in chase while a survivor is on the hook, gen speed is regressed by something like 5%. That way Survivors have to get the unhook or lose efficiency. The debuff ends when the hooked survivor is saved. Yes. A teammate can just unhook right away, but that Killet STILL had a new target in a critical area (high progressed gen). So everyone gets something.
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It's an interesting idea, but "teleport", no way LOL, it's overdone bro.
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Adding positive aspects to different play styles would work. If there was base kit bp multiplier for each unique hook prior to second hook stage for any survivor is one thought.
On an off topic addition as they could add bp modifiers to use perks that are not commonly taken.
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I don't even think I've played the game this year. But if there are negative comments about the game because of how people play. The the devs might need to step their game up a bit then.
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Why would someone need to play nice in a PVP game. If you want to be played nice with play a PvE game. Some times you get killed early and don't get to play. That's how it is.
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This is what I mentioned in another person's post on the topic of "game hostage":
"If someone is so afraid of death that they don't dare to do anything, then play killer, and in reverse, if someone is afraid of not being able to kill someone without camping or tunneling, then play survivors."
(you can search that topic: "
Can we PLEASE create a solution for survivors holding the game hostage/refusing to participate")I mean, if you can't kill in fair play, it's about your skill, don't blame. Or else, play more as a survivor and you'll understand. If you're complaining about why genes fly, then play survivor, then you'll see how difficult it is when you meet a skilled killer, they don't need to camp or tunnel you and still reach 4K.
About "Why would someone need to play nice in a PVP game"… hmm, Why would you ask this LMAO question? Have you ever learned what e-sports is? And do you play sports in real life? Do you understand what the word "GG" means, or what a fair game is? I bet you don't!!
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I think that's the wrong approach. Killers shouldn't be punished if they tunnel, they should be rewarded if they don't. Extra regress for the next gen regress event after a fresh/change hook as a basekit e.g.
There are already enough perks to punish a killer for tunneling.
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I refuse to play survivor because of how severe the tunneling is. I get that killers can feel the need to tunnel, but by playing dirty to guarantee a kill, you are inadvertently skewing the performance results of killers. Keeping the devs from buffing the killer in a way where you don’t need to tunnel because the stats show the killer has a balanced kill rate. People gotta take the L to allow proper balance and drop mmr to a more fun level for them
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agree bro 😎
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Ok bro, I always love people who have good playstyle. I never complain about the Killer/Survivor being too skilled. I even sent my thanks and compliments to them for playing so nice. If I luckily survive a tunneling/slugging/camping match, or luckily end the hostage game (by cowardly ones), I'll tend to gift toxic words towards Killers/Survivors after those trials.
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!Solutions! to Tunneling and Gen Rushing: (yay!)
- make Corrupt Intervention basekit - that way you're not likely to lose 2-3 gens before you can hook your first survivor
- if a person has been hooked 2 times, and no other person has been hooked, then that person becomes invulnerable and loses collision with the killer until the killer hooks another survivor once. This only works in this specific scenario - that way 1 survivor doesn't get an awful bullying experience, and the killer doesn't get massive advantage of 3 v 1 at 4/5 gens left.
EZ solutionz. Now all BHVR needs to do is implement it. You're welcome, folks 😘
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