Is using Equalizers Cheating? Hens vs Ayrun debate

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Marioneo
Marioneo Member Posts: 756

The ongoing debate if using Equalizers is cheating. Equalizers is a 3rd party software that is able to increase or completely eliminate certain sounds in a videogames for dbd its footsteps, breathing, items and killer powers.

Hens says its not cheating while Ayrun says it is cheating

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  • Mat_Sella
    Mat_Sella Member Posts: 3,547
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    Most modern headphones have software that includes an equalizer, I don't really see what the issue is here.

    Unless it was able to parse data to specifically increase those audio queues, this is a non-issue.

  • Spare_Them_Mori_Me
    Spare_Them_Mori_Me Member Posts: 1,328
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    Is listening to music while playing cheating? I mean, we can turn audio on and off in game. But specific audio like footsteps, breathing, generator noise? Where would it stop?

    Cheating or not, it would alter the gameplay to an advantage for one side. Not sure this is even up for debate.

  • Marioneo
    Marioneo Member Posts: 756
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    sadly has to be a debate cause theres tons of people like hens saying its not cheating

  • Ryuhi
    Ryuhi Member Posts: 3,733
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    I would personally argue that there should be some degree of options ingame to balance the audio (at least a bit better than it is by default) as it can be an accessibility issue, but there are layers of design that rely on auditory masking.

  • WolfyWood
    WolfyWood Member Posts: 323
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    How do you feel about about Low GFX settings removing foliage and fog?

  • Raptorrotas
    Raptorrotas Member Posts: 3,229
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    IIts not like its a wall hack right?

    CConsidering theres already a huge crowd of players using third party apps to gain advantages, talk about the weather, I'd say the other team might be just as inclined to fiddle with their sounds settings to protect their esrs from those loud hook screams. Lol.

  • alpha5
    alpha5 Member Posts: 226
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    I would like to believe if there were LAN tournaments EQ and filters would be forbidden but even if they were universally considered cheating I do not think a ban is enforceable online so the discussion is kind of pointless.

  • radiantHero23
    radiantHero23 Member Posts: 3,645
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    3rd party sofware, not intended because not in the game. Easy. Cheating.

  • Katzengott
    Katzengott Member Posts: 1,205
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    Same like using filters, this time with sound. The only reason it's not bannable is BHVR can't really do anything about it.

    If you take the game THAT serious you already lost anyway. Also, very fair with console crossplay. NOT!

  • Neaxolotl
    Neaxolotl Member Posts: 1,115
    edited April 24
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    It is as this is third party, but I'd say hearing elitism in gaming is stupid and should be removed anyway

    But ultimately, what is the difference between using "gaming optimized" headphone with speaker biased toward specific sound and simply emulating that through software? I don't see one really

  • ArkInk
    ArkInk Member Posts: 581
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    I'd say the software only really qualifies as cheating if it's intentionally being used to hear and find players/important objects faster. If it's just someone trying to remove Plague's vomit noises so they don't puke, please do!

  • Dustin
    Dustin Member Posts: 2,263
    edited April 24
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    • Game uses sounds for balancing
    • It's third party software not everyone has access to that can give an advantage based on the description


    For DBD where sound is used for balancing yes it's blatantly cheating. It's almost comparable to stretched res where people said it was just for looks but it affected gameplay.

  • E5150
    E5150 Member Posts: 79
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    I don't know if it's cheating per se, but it OBVIOUSLY gives you some advantage.

  • Nick
    Nick Member Posts: 1,224
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    No it just sounds better

  • KatsuhxP
    KatsuhxP Member Posts: 440
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    While I'd say it gives an advantage and is therefore kind of cheating, I don't think it's a real cheat. It's like crossairs for huntress and slinger just a programm making it easier that everyone could use without problem, because it's so easy to get.

    It was the same with stretched resolution for me: yes it gives an advantage, BUT everyone could easily use it if they wanted to.

    So i'm on the side from hens: It's not cheating.

  • caligraph
    caligraph Member Posts: 359
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    I dont think so. If our standard for cheating is just a 3rd party program that gives an advantage then swf with comms would absolutely be cheating. But it obviously isnt so I dont think its fair to say filters/eq/etc are cheating. Neither give any new info they just make it easier to hear whats already there. Comparably speaking SWF with comms has a much higher advantage. which I'd like to reiterate is not cheating.

  • Krazzik
    Krazzik Member Posts: 2,426
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    Technically it does give an advantage over someone who doesn't use it, same as filters. I don't think it gives -that- much of an advantage, certainly nowhere near what outright cheats like wallhacks give, but it -is- cheating in my eyes.

    That being said, technically using colourblind options can be argued as giving an advantage that you otherwise wouldn't have so it's not a huge deal.

  • Unknown2765
    Unknown2765 Member Posts: 2,022
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    if a 3rd party program gives you an edge over people who are not using it - then its clearly cheating.

  • OrangeBear
    OrangeBear Member Posts: 2,520
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    If the question is "Is using software to modify the audio mix of the game (when it's not possible to do so by normal/supported means) cheating?"

    Then my answer is absolutely yes. I don't see how that's different than modifying the game to make traps more visible for example.

  • H2H
    H2H Member Posts: 676
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    yes, it’s cheating, clearly

  • Xernoton
    Xernoton Member Posts: 5,395
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    Short answer: Yes.

    Long answer: Definitely yes.

  • NotAnotherDoctor
    NotAnotherDoctor Member Posts: 290
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    Yeah I truly believe pc should be removed from crossplay and console should be left to play on crossplay by themselves. Constant pc hackers and cheaters using stuff like this is exactly why.

    Let them play by themselves, advantages they have are too big and is another reason dbd can never be considered a competitive game

  • Reinami
    Reinami Member Posts: 5,182
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    If you have to use a 3rd party program that makes some kind of change that gives you a competitive advantage, it is cheating, pure and simple.

    If filters weren't giving you a competitive advantage, then why does every comp player use it? If EQs didn't give a competitive advantage, then why does every comp player use it?

  • Neaxolotl
    Neaxolotl Member Posts: 1,115
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    But still, balancing around sounds are weird when we talk about accessibility every day

  • Starrseed
    Starrseed Member Posts: 1,765
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    I mean on one hand it is a third party software andyou absolutly get an advantage from it that is the definition of creating.

    On the other hand the same technically goes for Swf using voice chat. Yeah teamspeak is allowed thats the difference but on paper it's the same.

    In the end I believe it's impossible for bhvr to even do anything about it. I don't think they can just controll what other programms are running on your computer and that's what they would need to do since the program isn't interacting with dbd like an aim bot or wall hack would.

    The whole thing is super difficult to deal with and i gues it will only become worse in the next few years. I don't remember when I saw it but I once saw a guy working on a ai program that was able to identify your enemy and highlight them.

  • Thusly_Boned
    Thusly_Boned Member Posts: 2,835
    edited April 24
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    Yeah, but hearing deficits don't differentiate between most types of sounds, so I don't think we can use the fact that some people (myself included) don't hear as well as others to dismiss the question.

    If you are running software to do things like essentially slapping a reverse Iron Will on survs, or amplifying the sound of the TR, muffling ambient noise that interfere with sounds you'd like to hear, etc., that's pretty clearly cheating to me.

    I can't count the number of times I've been straining to listen for certain sounds and wished they were louder (or that other sounds masking them were quieter or present at all), but actually getting that wish wouldn't be fair or intended.

  • Neaxolotl
    Neaxolotl Member Posts: 1,115
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    I'm not dismissing anything, I'm just stating my opinion, I don't think using sound design so atrocious for balancing is good or healthy, and gaming industry in general should stop doing that kind of game design

  • 100PercentBPMain
    100PercentBPMain Member Posts: 617
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    Devs allow Spirit to be countered by her own chase music, this noise pollution is intentional. Messing with the audio is clearly a problem.

    If we can't have custom skins, why is it OK to have custom audio? Why do I have to suffer but PC players can just pick and choose their own solutions as they see fit? Who gets to draw the line?

  • RoastedGarlic
    RoastedGarlic Member Posts: 532
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    This is not the same as filters and I don't know why people are trying to say it is.

    This is definitely cheating.

  • Neaxolotl
    Neaxolotl Member Posts: 1,115
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    I think hardware equalizer is still a thing? not like I recommend it or anything but probably not just a "PC players" thing

  • Thusly_Boned
    Thusly_Boned Member Posts: 2,835
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    That's totally fair, and in an ideal world it wouldn't be the way it is (and as someone with a hearing deficit I feel the impact of that design element more than most), but it is. And that being the case, some folks picking and choosing what sounds are prominent or vice versa is clearly not fair play, which is the question being posed here.

    It's like people who listen to music but complain when they struggle because they make that choice; the game is what it is, and we have to account for it. But trying to change how it works in the player end isn't they way.

    BHVR's general use of sound design is obviously an issue, but also a more high level discussion.

  • Neaxolotl
    Neaxolotl Member Posts: 1,115
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    But then the issue is: is using gaming headset cheating? because that's exactly what "choosing what sounds are prominent" is

    And honestly I would say yes, just that no one can find/punish them

  • Tatariu
    Tatariu Member Posts: 3,016
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    If it is whitelisted by the devs it is not cheating.

  • Dreamnomad
    Dreamnomad Member Posts: 3,736
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    I don't know how this is even a debate. Using any 3rd party software to give an in game advantage is clearly cheating. It is pretty much the definition of cheating. It is one of the arguments I made against cross platform gaming when that was pushed on us.

  • TheWheelOfCheese
    TheWheelOfCheese Member Posts: 659
    edited April 25
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    The problem with deciding if this is cheating is that the devs haven't weighed in, and there are enough exceptions to their stated rules (comms and crosshairs) that we can't really read their minds on this one.

    Also, non-software EQs exist (so this is not PC-only, nor is it "using third party software" in all cases), and different headphones already have different frequency response so you could make the argument that choosing one set of headphones over another is "cheating" because it has a more advantageous frequency response for DBD. Some headphones and earbuds will also do dynamic range compression in hardware, which can help surface quieter sounds — is using these peripherals also cheating?

    This is substantially more nuanced than "it's third party." So are visual filters, so are your monitor's contrast settings, and so on. There is a monumental difference between programs that take the signals output by DBD and modify them in some way (adding crosshairs, adjusting contrast, edge highlighting, audio EQ) and programs that peek into DBD's memory to read out the locations of players and draw them (wall-hacks). I believe the developers generally intend "third-party software" here to cover the latter case, but their public policies must necessarily be broad so that they can be sure that they cover the things they want to cover. Many environments even include system-wide audio EQs (I play on Linux and it's pretty much standard there) so you can't really even argue that you have to go out of your way to set this stuff up — it can come with the environment and be just as easy as tweaking your monitor settings.

    I lean towards "not cheating" on this one, but acknowledging that the developers may have a different opinion and we should defer to theirs if they choose to express it (which I think they should).

  • awustzdn
    awustzdn Member Posts: 317
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    It's absolutely cheating, but BHVR has a long track record of condoning cheating so long as it doesn't bypass EAC.