Tunneling is good for the game and for survivors
I will die on this hill btw.
Tunneling is good, it forces survivors to improve at their looping skill, i wouldn't be half the survivor i am now If i didn't get tunneled.
You also won't be tunneled as much if you can improve at looping, killers like tunneling weak links, it's smart easy pressure. If your getting tunneled your probably the weak link, or so good the killer has to prove to themselves or you they can down you, in which case you buy loads of time for your team, and if your the weak link you can improve.
Now, i know alot of people rage bc of tunneling and complain it's bad. They have a skill issue and are not willing to forcibly improve themselves at the game. If they get discouraged and uninstall or leave that's shows alot Abt them. They were never worthy of improving.
If you want to improve you will, if you get tunneled all the time you'll want to improve.
Each time a survivor gets tunneled it creates harder survivors for killers to go against.
Tunneling is ultimately incredible for the games health, i know when i first got tunneled i was like "damn, I'm never gonna let this happen again" and i improved and now killers abandon chase with me after 30 seconds and i sit on gens all match because they know I'm good.
Feel free to disagree. But you have to admit i do have a point. Tunneling creates good players
And no. This isn't bait. And no I'm not a killer main (i play both sides evenly)
EDIT: yall have made me somewhat change my mind, no longer dying on this hill.
i still think theres alot of good that CAN be had. but currently none of it is there.
Comments
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I agree it makes you better at looping faster. It does not solve the real issue. That issue is you run them for 4 gens get hooked and then left on hook. The issue I have had is that I get better but I get put with others who do not. Then if I am not the one being tunneled they go down in 2 seconds. So to sum it up tunneling is fine. The real issue is lack of cohesion with other survivors.
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Yes i fully agree, u hit the nail on it's head there. I do feel eventually you reach an mmr or whatever it's called where yk. The survs don't go down. But that's not often
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I can't at all agree with that because the game doesn't reward being good, at least to the degree that other games do.
In League, there's LP that determine ranked ladder placement, per-character mastery points you can show off in game, cosmetic rewards for particularly strong performances, and a feature that tracks specific per-character actions.Those rewards don't exist in DBD - that doesn't make DBD better or worse than League, just a different game with a different design philosophy.
Because the game doesn't really reward skill in that way, a lot of players will simply say "why bother playing the game, if I have to sweat and practice a lot in order to even get a chance to play, and I don't even get all that much of a reward. I'll either play a different casual game, or a competetive game with more rewards instead"
Also, your argument seems to be predicated on the idea that people get tunneled because they are bad at chase. The logical conclusion therefore would be that getting good at chase would mean you wouldn't get tunneled, but that means that you would spend a bunch of time learning to play the game in order to make sure you don't get to use the skills that you developed - in fact punishing players for taking the time to get good by not letting them express the skills they learned.
IMO tunneling is a net neutral for the game - I enjoy getting tunneled but I know some people don't. There are people who claim it's some massive problem and I disagree with that too. Claiming that tunneling is "good" for the game imo just feels incorrect. It feels like you're trying to justify your playstyle by framing yourself as a hero for playing like that, rather than just recognizing it's a game and you can play how you want.
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(instead they´ll ask to buff ds cof cof)
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Yeah, no.
Tunneling is not good for the game on a large scale, especially not at the levels we are seeing now.
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Elaborate on why please.
If forces players get better. May it be annoying rn? Yes, in a month or two players will be good enough to where it won't be a problem, then next time we get a huge influx of players it'll happen again.
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Still don't see why they're doing so. It only hurts weak killers. But yeah. They'll ask for nerfs and buffs bc they think perks will help them become a better looper. And yes it will, i rely on windows alot. Game knowledge and skill is what you need. You can loop a killer 5 gens perkless once you learn how to loop and counter that killer
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Not really. You see, just because something is good for one thing doesnt mean theres other areas that also make it just as bad.
Tunnelling does help survivors improve IF they are willing to stay. But many don't or at least don't feel strongly to. Why? Because getting tunnelled is not fun. It's like playing a fighting game but your enemy gets full health when you have half the bar. Sure, I can learn my attacks and get better, but it's not going to be fun knowing your a combo or 2 away from losing.
Also, not saying nobody wants to improve but not all survivors want to play to get better 100% of the time. Some survivors want to be alturistic. Or tun unique builds or do personal challenges. Not everyone want to sweat so they can loop a killer. And with all the many maps, killers and perks in the game, it takes more than just "get better" to beat tunnelling. You'll have better but bitter survivors.
Tunnelling also hurts killers as well. Most (at lesst newer) Killers hear and see that tunnelling leads to kills. But thats it. Tunnelling doesn't help you learn macro gameplay. How to mindgame loops better, learn different techs, patrol gens, etc etc. This leads to killers tunnelling more because they think they lost a game because they didn't "tunnel enough." That's like targetting the kid in a wheelchair in dodgeball but getting mad that you didn't target him enough when you lost because you forgot/don't know how to deal with other players in the match.
Tunnelling by all means can be a good strategy when killers need an advantage. Issue is many take advantage of it too early in the game, causing them to lose, worse if the survivor is a good looper. But overall, tunnelling might be good for killers, but very unfun for survivors. We should care about both parties having fun, not just one.
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I do not think so. Being tunneled by an anti-loop killer is not an easy task if the killer has its neurons working, you won't last long.
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Survivors will get better at looping and then killers will complain about maps and then the devs will nerf. No matter what survivors do they lose.
It's like this weird thing where the onus is on survivor to be good but that's not what people really want because who wants to be challenged by good survivors. The devs don't even embrace this because if survivors get too good and escape rates get too high then nerfs to balance out the kill rate.
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I agree with this to a point my issue is that you die with basically no points and leaves a sour taste in my mouth and feels like a waste of time
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I love it when people say "worth improving" in regards of playing a trashy multiplayer game. Like it's a sport or something that actually contributes to society.
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I think longterm people would be more inclined to quit the game than anything else. Even those who are good in chase would get tired of being tunnelled consistently. Thankfully I don't believe tunnelling is that consistent (I see it maybe once every 12 games when I play survivor) but if I were seeing it every game or so I'd probably just find a different game to play. Not everyone strives to be a god looper, some people just want to kick back and kill some time
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"Tunneling is ultimately incredible for the games health"
interesting outlook on tunneling but i can't fully agree. Yeah it help some survivors improve but it also ruin the game for newcomers. Probably responsible for many new players quitting the game. Overall my main issue with tunneling isn't how it effect survivors fun but more so how easy it is to do. Such a dominant strategy should actually require skill to utilize but instead any noob can follow behind you and count to 10. The low amount of effort it take compare to the vaule u receive is astronomical. Tunneling circumvent the massive power gap that a strong coordinated 4man has but it way to powerful of weapon for solo q. A lot of tru3ta1ent tunnel babies have been manufactured and design with the thought "i have to tunnel no matter what".
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At this point I say fair game
Decisive buff, no change to OTR, no change to BU+FTP, no change to Background Player and Flashbang going through walls. And survivors expect killers to adhere to a rulebook. I play both sides and I don't even care if I get tunneled as survivor, I completely understand it.
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It's a fine startegy to use at the right moment (for example, if the Killer is behind and wants to stage a come back), but I don't think it's healthy for the game overall. Especially when it becomes too prevalent. I don't see it too often outside of the events, but I hear certain regions face it more often than others.
My main reason for disliking the strategy is that it's just not fun for the majority of the player base and it drives away the more casual players. I'd be willing to bet most Survivors want to play trials where they get to play the game they queued up for, had the chance to earn a bit of bp and pip and yes, got to interact with the Killer a fair amount. But few players enjoy being hard tunnelled out of the match at 5 gens before they've had a chance to do much of anything at all.
An online multiplayer game that fails to attract and keep casual players is at best, an extremely niche offering that will have little appeal beyond a hardcore of fans and at worst, not likely to survive for long. I think DBD would face the latter fate if it became too competitive. I don't think we have a player base that wants to sweat that hard.
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I think there are extremes that are not tolerable. One of them being a nurse with quad slowdown that has the fun idea to get someone out at 5 gens because "they could have still genrushed her", despite the team taking 2 minutes to get the first gen done. One could say, that the survivors where not good and deserved to loose there. Sure. Thats one viewpoint. On the other end, one has to see that this is a game. Games are consumer products. If a game sint fun for the players anymore, they will just go and play something else. This is obviously not good for the game overall.
(Luckily) Not every team is running these perks, therefore not every team should get the whip. I usually play according to the team im facing. If i see, that they want to go hardcore, Im going hardcore. If i see that they are chill or not as good, I try to play really chill and create a fun experience for everyone.
I think this is a healthy way to approach the game.
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We don't get any change for tunneling as long as we have hooking anyways, might as well scrap the hook altogether
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yeah like what are we improving for? people just want to play a game…😭also with the amount of bugs, lag, exploits, questionable killer designs with no counterplay and everything why does it even matter if you improved or not…
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Tunneling has been in the game since it release. In your logic, the players should get better very fast, then a new wave of new players joins and gets the tunneling-training. This is not how it works and doesnt even take the amssive inconsistencies between killers into account. A Wesker that is hard tunneling will undeniably just get the down at some point because the survivor will get hindered. A skull merchant will eventually get a down due to her power giving haste and hindered. A Nurse has next to no conterplay if she hits her blinks on point.
Sometimes there is no getting good.
This is something that I get to see a lot when playing Pig. People just tell me to get good after some games that didnt go too well. Then im analyzing my games and I see that I simply hit the limitations of the killer. Survivors pre dropped pallets and delayed my first down for so long that I wasnt able to dish out traps. This often results in a loss for the Pig.
DBD is a massively unbalanced game due to the vairety of maps, killers, addons, items, offerings and now sadly skins as well (looking at you Huntress). Just telling people to get good, when they literally could not have done any better is not right.
Sure, against many killers on many maps, a survivor will be able to delay a down a lot more and hard tunneling will make that survivor be more accustom to being in chase but dont you think that there should be a similar amount of chase time for all survivors in a trial? Tunneling one survivor in an attempt to make them "better at chasing" results in all other survivors having the time of their lifes sitting on gens for several minutes straight. This results in a boring matchj for 3 out of 5 people. Games are supposed to be fun. This is not it.
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Tunneling does not teach anything its a strategy used to remove someone from play quickly. Its a negative experience as it makes that player wait in que to get removed or denied the chance of playing.
Its a childish viewpoint. If I want to use your logic. Then Old Keys were good for the game because it taught killers how to push survivors off of gens. And Iron Will was good for killers because it taught them now to observe their surroundings better.
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It doesn't.
All it does is give players a terrible experience where they get no points and don't get to play the game at all.
It's unbalanced, unpleasant and teaches some bad Killer habits that will usually bite them in the ass later.
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The point that tunneling teaches survivors how to loop better faster is correct.
But that's the only positive.
Negatives:
• Everyone except the killer is bored (except sometimes the one whos getting chased if they can loop well)
• The survivor getting tunneled will get minimal points.
• It dumbs down the killer gameplay (when hard tunneling since the start of the game) to just: hit, hit, hook, repeat
• The killer doesn't learn anything and can eventually get into a cursed loop of constant tunneling, getting to high MMR, getting stomped and starting over
• If a newbie gets tunneled a lot, they might not be willing to continue the boring circle of tunneling and quits. This is a game, you are supposed to enjoy it. This is one of the reasons DbD is so beginner unfriendly.
• It creates toxicity.
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Agree! Hard tunneling creates a very stale experience for all players involved. 3 survivors will just do gens, therefore will not interact with the killer and dont take part in the chase apsect of the game. One survivor will only get chased, therefore having no dwontime on gens, doing totems or doing cooperative actions. They also miss out on a huge part of the experience. The killer will loose gens at a fast pace due to them not caring one bit about their macro-gameplay.
Dont get me wrong, tunneling is SOMETIMES a necessary evil if survivors become too efficient. See my previous post about hitting the limitations of a character. But tunneling at 5-3 gens remaining is just completely unnecessary.
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"You also won't be tunneled as much if you can improve at looping, killers like tunneling weak links, it's smart easy pressure. If your getting tunneled your probably the weak link"
Counterpoint: The killer doesn't have any idea on how to spread pressure, overcommits to you, loses several gens in the process, and is now tunneling you anyway because they played poorly and this is their only way of potentially scoring a kill.
So if you're bad, and the killer's bad you get tunneled. If you're bad, and the killer's good, you get tunneled. If you're good and the killer's bad, you're tunneled. If you're good and the killer's good, you get tunneled anyway because it's the most efficient strategy to win right now and everyone and their mother is sweating like we've just had a heatwave and there's prize money on the line.
You literally cannot win. Tunneling is not good for the game and there is a reason everyone is quitting over it because every single match playing identically is just not fun.
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I sincerely doubt you play both sides equally and fail to see how tunneling affects the game so negatively, specially when it's done at the beggining of the game.
Yes, it may lead SOME players to get a bit better but most of them will just move to another game. You know why? Because it's not fun and this is a game, you know, to have a fun. It's not a job, it's not a sport, it's not a tournament. It's a damn game and you are supposed to have fun. And I sure as hell am not having fun when my entire solo team gets less than 10k points every match because the killer decides to tunnel someone from the beggining and then it's either just do only gens the entire match or snowball into an early 4k.
Sorry but no, it's not good for the game.
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They have a skill issue and are not willing to forcibly improve themselves at the game. If they get discouraged and uninstall or leave that's shows alot Abt them. They were never worthy of improving.Others have mentioned it, but its a game. Lots of people are just going to play the game occasionally, the people who dedicate a huge chunk of time to it are going to be a rarity. The idea of using a word like "worthy" or saying it shows something about another person is ridiculous.
Its also a completely one sided thing on who is expected to develop the skill. Tunneling is a strategy that any killer can pick up from the moment they first start the game. Looping is a skill that takes an incredibly long time to really master.
Finally, it makes boring games. If the killer gets looped, the others just sit sit on gens. If the killer doesn't get looped, it creates a boring 3 on 1.
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At this point a lot of killer players see tunneling as the only way to play the game. And I don't say that lightly, there are people who genuinely do not have any idea how spreading pressure works.
Tunneling is the 'one trick pony' of DbD. There are only two outcomes to tunneling here too: either
- Tunneling works, and winning the 1v1 easily wins you the 4v1 and you get to win the game.
- Tunneling doesn't work, and you get outplayed in the 1v1 (including if the opponent is vastly better than you). This is usually followed by screaming at the devs here on the forums to nerf/change something you blame for the loss.
The latter case, there is usually zero introspection. These players aren't looking to improve their gameplay or get better at the game. A disturbing number of them think they're 'in the top 5%' or 'max MMR' but have demonstrated that they lack game sense or knowledge. The best skill they can present is posting incessantly until the devs eventually cave and nerf the flavor of the month perk, then immediately move to the next one after that change goes live.
So no, I strongly disagree with the idea that people are learning anything from incessant tunneling.
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Tunneling is a safe way to make 1 or 2 kills against swf, aside from that its noob behaviour. I will die on that hill
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No it isn't, this is just cope and attempting to justify playing in a way that inflicts misery on the other side.
Survivors who cant loop will get better after hundreds, if not thousands of hours in game. Being tunnelled every match makes people leave the game altogether, well before they have the time to get better at the game.
Streamers aren't the be all and end all of the state of the game but I will say I see it time and time again where I watch some low level streamer get tunnelled repeatedly and you know what they do? They close DBD and play something else as being tunnelled constantly is a negative experience.
How this is good for the game long term is beyond me.
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Brother... I get your point and I won't speak up about the matter but you just opened Pandora's box
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gets hooked in a dead zone, gets unhooked and gets tunneled out.
"Clearly you should have looped better and it may have seemed that this tunneling was unfair but it was obviously just a learning experience."
Taking chases makes survivors better, tunneling is just annoying.
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Hear me out tho:
Tunnelling at 5 gens should be a negative for killers. Like, giving the most hooked survivor a permanent 5% haste and 5% increase in vault speed untill they are no longer the most hooked survivor.
5% is enough for all survivors to outpace even a nurse or blight tunnelling. But its not fast enough to make tunnelling unviable1 -
You have absolutely no point. People cant get better if theyre tunneled out as they have no room to improve in such a short time span until they get downed again.
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i always find this argument funny when you flip it around and say "why can't killer players get better and learn to win without tunneling."
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Arinad (The guy that wrote the 200-page guide on playing Clown) has a section acknowledging that it's often necessary to tunnel due to the limitations of low-tiers
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I disagree. If you tunnel, you're bad. If makes the survivor better then the reverse is true. If you tunnel that means your skill is stagnant.
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Sorry to say this but if you have issues with DS and OTR that's more a you problem than a perk problem really
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I don't wanna hear it when I try to spread hooks and multiple survivors try blocking off hook.
It's not even a win/lose thing, it's a problem regardless for both sides. If it works, it's obnoxious and delays the game against weak M1 killers. If not, it's a detriment to your fellow survivors.
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Well maybe in a SWF stack, I've yet to see a single survivor in solo queue using OTR for blocking a hook instead of idling around until it runs out. I do not doubt that the perk is hot garbage in general tho. A necessary evil for this "oh so healthy playstyle", especially since tunneling combined with PGTW is such a commong thing these days
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Ever since the patch dropped, roughly 80% of my matches has had at least one person attempting it. There were better alternatives to the tunneling thing, especially against the stronger killers who can afford to ignore the 5 second stun anyway.
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Tunneling is the best killer strategy. Unless the devs provide other ways to secure a win, it will stay that way.
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I mean if you really ran the killer for 4 gens and then the killer ends the match with 1 kill, that sounds like a win to me. I assume the chase was pretty fun if it lasted that long. The only reason to consider this a loss is if you personally don't care about your teammates. 3 survivors escaped, so that is a loss for the killer regardless.
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All tunneling, camping, and slugging do is ruin the game. Sure, people who stick around will eventually get better, but that's IF they choose to stick around. Lord knows I stopped playing game for 4 years because of those toxic strats.
All you, as a killer, are admitting is that you suck at the game. End of story. If you have to tunnel, camp, or slug to get a kill, then you're the one who should be getting better at the game.
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A person who only occasionally plays should expect to lose to someone who plays a lot. By your logic, survivors should expect to pick up the game and beat people who have been playing. At that point, just play a mobile slot machine game. Pure rng. In a pvp game, that’s a toxic mentality.
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Did you quote the wrong person, by any chance?
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idk about you but I kinda don't like a binary game where it's either getting tunneled or playing M1 simulator. If I just want to (improve) looping I just go to some discord and go "Trapper-Wraith anyone?" - Or just any good old come shack 1v1. - Not that I do that often to begin with - but I do often hang around vc with people who do and strim in call.
Personally, in swf I like the whole process of coordination and keeping an eye on the makro game. Wouldn't get around to that a whole lot either if tunneling was good (and thus normalaand accepted as normal)
A for the weak link .... idk, someone hard tunneling the first survivor they find doesn't strike me as being a good way to identify the weak link.
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Nope. Your statement about “casual” players is is exactly the thing that I’m addressing. If you’re casual, you should expect to lose to people who are better. The other factor is that a lot of here who claim to be casual are full of it. They run meta perks and are actually mad about losing, something that shouldn’t matter if they are just clowning around.
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It's not my statement, and the statement you quoted said nothing about beating anyone, hence the confusion.
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I will die on the hill that you don't need to justify tunneling. Majority of the players that dislike it don't feel the need to improve in order to combat it, so they'd rather claim it's an unfair or unfun strategy that needs to be somehow removed or nerfed. Yet, it's literally the killer equivalent to SWFs that gen rush, except a SWF that gen rushes will trump over a tunneling killer any day. Holding M1 while the other guy holds W happens to counter tunneling, didn't anyone know?
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