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Killers Are Too Strong Now
Now this might seem like a crazy post to say. "SURVIVOR MAIN!" you shout. And yes I am. (Sadly because survivor is the only role where I have 75% of the perks but anyways) I mean it when I say that killers are too strong. RECENT killers are too strong. Now they might have some decent counterplay but when it comes to their arsenal, especially compared to earlier killers, they are just too strong compared to what survivors have in theirs. Power creep essentially.
Let's take a look at one of the most loved killers in the game, Huntress. Her power? Throw Hatchet. That's it. But the versatility of her power (throw hatchet) is what makes her even viable in today's games despite her releasing YEARS ago. Let's look the most recent killer, unknown. He's a pretty decent and fair killer…sometimes. But nonetheless, fair.
It can shoot essentially a pink glorp bomb like a grenade launcher that can shoot over loops and explode with AOE splash damage. This glorp bomb can also bounce off walls. It also leaves random versions of itself it can teleport too. It has Anti-loop so it'll be hard to loop. It can deal splash damage so even if you loop you can't hug walls. If you try to evade it's bomb it can shoot it towards a wall to bounce off and get you regardless. It can also teleport so it has map traversal. You see my point? Compared to Huntress, who is comparison a pistol, Unknown is like a grenade launcher, and many of them scattered randomly in the battlefield that it can fly to on a helicopter at fast speeds anytime. Now Unknown is more fair than the other I shall name to further my point.
Let's take a look at Xeno. She has a tunnel system, 2 modes, one giving her a tail with little to no windup time, which she can also fake her tailwhip and not be severely punished if she misses and even then, she can ALSO instantly M1 too, which the very same mode can only be stopped by flamethrowers which also do little to nothing as she can swat them away with her tail in no time. Those very same Flamethrowers can only be received near those same tunnels. Once you get those flamethrowers, it slows you down. And even then, they only are useful if near a loop, which takes even more time to set. So, Xeno has map traversal via tunnels, anti-loop via her tail which you cann't outplay due to little wind-up time to dodge which she can also just M1 instantly and slowdown via the flamethrowers which is kinda the only counterplay.
You see what I mean? With older killers their powers were mode simple but effective, meaning most killers will have to make up for what they lack in skill, knowledge and/or perks meaning there's room for many strategies and gameplay styles. But now killers have anti-loop, slowdown, map traversal, stealth or any sort of combination all in 1 kit, no add-ons. I understand that being a killer is hard having to make up for what you lack, but thats what made killers fair but also really skillful. Now killers have everything in their kit that as a survivor, theres no room for error when facing them besides their won knowledge and skill which is a gamble of in itself.
Survivors have also been receiving lackluster perks and horrible map/pallet/loop designs to even run these killers. It's like being in an empty battlefield with nothing but a knife but your enemy has cover along with loads of weapons. What can I do besides lose?
If the game is becoming alot more hard for killers, they should make up for it in base game changes, not making killers strong in every aspect to make up for the lack of strength they have. Power Creep is never good…
Comments
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No we are not, survivors are still overpowered especially if they are SWFing
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With discord
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Sorry no TLDR, so I'm just gonna say I disagree.
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Not a bad take. Survivor definitely is in need of some improvements.
Newer killers propably have complex and sometimes overloaded powers due to the game having evolved so much and the devs trying new stuff. They also recieve feedback, that a good killer has to have:
- good map mobility
- chase power
- some form of gimmick
Look at all the recently released killers. Almost all of them follow this trend.
Where I disagree however is, that older killer designs where a lot more simple. Freddy, Pig and Doctor have very complex and confusing powers when they released.
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I wouldn't say strong, just complicated.
Skull Merchant (everyone's favourite killer) has like 5 status effects in her kit, has tracking, antiloop, a side objective...
Singularity's power is compicated not only to play against, but also to play as
Xeno was already explained.
And the game as a whole is atm swinging towards the killer side (ehm, ehm Haddonfield)
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Singularity - who? They pretty much don't exist. Singu is decent killer but you need to tryhard him to play him ans Survivors counterplay on their side is very simple compare to the killer. So this one is out of the picture.
Xeno - Strong but Huntress is way better. You don't play much different againts him than a Nemesis and I hope you don't think Nemesis is oppresive I hope. You can slow him down and force him out his power with well placed turrets. So I wouldn't agree Xeno is too strong at all so this one is also out of the picture.
Chucky - Without power he is useless. He has good chase power but if you manage to dodge him (there are some ways) or make him waste his power then he is kinda useless. I would agree he is strong but not overpowered but okay I will give you 1 point here.
Unknown - Worse Huntress. You can juke his grenades. You can disable his tp. Don't hug walls and he can't hit you behind them. You can predic where he will prob shot. He is solid but worse than Huntress for sure and more difficult than her. So this one is also out of picture.
So if I am being kind, 1 out of 4 killers are "oppresive". Wow, crazy I know.
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No offense but anybody who still doesn't understand Singularity is a lost cause.
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most of recent killers are still far worse than classic good killers, due to their convoluted complexity all while not having pure strength
It's just that survivors needs some time to adjust/learn counterplay to them, in fact BHVR is being too cautious to make killers not OP, minus twins rework
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Yeah I'm gonna hard disagree on Xeno being weaker than Huntress. The only thing he doesn't have over her is cross-map hit potential, and even then that won't happen often with anyone paying attention.
Chucky can completely negate any gameplay the survivor does with scamper, while also being strong due to his size (and thus hard to react to). There's a reason he's A+. OVERALL he isn't OP but his design reeks of powercreep, where what's being crept are pallets vs. killer interactions.
Unknown is worse huntress? Lolwut. The killer is 115%, can hit multiple survivors at once and has the fastest teleport in the game.
You're overrating Huntress hard when she's arguably the weakest ranged killer in the game right now. At least when you've facing survivors of your skill level. Luckily, it doesn't seem to be the case for most of us.
OP has a point though, new killers are definitely strong and not intuitive to counter at all. That said, I wouldn't say they're overpowered.
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Max there are 50 swf playing on discord.
50x4=200 players.
Currently 48k players. (Massive increase I'd bet is due to DS buff).
200/48000=
0.04%
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survivor is a joke
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finally someone with sense
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yep there are a bunch of killers that certainly are to strong those should be nerfed but thats not all killers and we have more then enough who could use a buff
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Going to hop on the bandwagon here a bit:
I think the best killers are the ones with rather basic abilities. Those basic abilities tend to be VERY open ended, allowing the killer player to express their skill with that basic ability which results in them developing their own playstyle. Blight was, in my opinion, one of the last good killer designs (not counting addons or bugs/exploits). Wesker is close, but comes with some poopfart stuff attached that I personally don't care for, but I respect the skill expression he allows players. Other killers come with skillful elements, sure, but they are also hindered with a laundry list of extra mechanics that they have to play into in order to do well, which also makes balancing their key features a pain because their main ability must be balanced alongside a shopping list of other mechanics that play out in the background. Also, as a general rule, I personally don't like any killer that must spawn counterplay options because the design required it. Pig is, perhaps, the only exception I feel for this, though it's likely just bias towards liking Pig.
Now, I don't think that means newer killers are too strong. Not categorically, anyways. If anything, they are overly complex, and those complexities can either hinder the killer player, or confuse the survivor players into not being sure what they are supposed to be doing. The strength of a killer shouldn't be perceived as how confusing they are to understand.2 -
Not really, the thing is the game was very much survivor sided for many years and they have done a lot to make it fairer for killers.
I do think some killer builds can be problematic, particularly stacking 3-4 gen perks on high tier killers etc. But overall the game is a lot fairer to killers than it was in the past.
Just try playing lower tier killers against decent survivors and tell me about how killers are too strong.
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Just say that you want Xeno to get nerfed, this is clearly what this post is actually about anyway.
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Wow, somebody who is actually smart for once. She’s a good killer for sure at lower levels but when going against good survivors she is definitely one of the worst ranged killers hands down. The most map dependent out of them all as well. Punished for using you power, punished for being patient, punished for missing, punished the hardest for canceling your power, and punished for the maps you get. The only thing keeping her alive are the survivor hitboxes tbh.
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Then why do survivors in a four man SWF at high MMR lose more than they win? (real numbers are even lower since they don't count matches with a DC). People keep talking about how overpowered SWF is and the official numbers don't back it up. Where are all these unbeatable SWFs that I always hear about? I Have over 4200 hours and I rarely run into them despite having a very high win rate on killer.
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Play killer for a while. Keep winning. Come back to tell us how OP you were.
I'm not holding my breath.
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Power creep is inevitable, there's no way a game can go 7 years+ without some sort of power creep.
Not only the game is different, but the players got much better over the years. Your average survivor knows how to chain multiple windows and pallets. Killers can't be like Trapper anymore, even good old Huntress suffer against competent teams.
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If the unknown ever hits two survivors at the same time they had to be either bots or intentionally be throwing the game. While I agree huntress is extremely overrated by dbds playerbase, unknown is also very overated, the only aspect that people do undertand is strong with him its his tp. But his proyectile is not as good as people paint it to be. You have to hit a survivor 2 time for it to deal dmg and getting rid of it is incredibly easy if you are somewhat decent at survivor.
The issue with unknown is the same as legion, healing against legion most of the times is just a timeloss, and even if you remain injured they are an m1 killer so you are at no risk whatsoever, however people heal all the time agai t legion and then get surprised they 4kd. Removing weakened is so easy it is a given against good players the unknown has only one opportunity to shoot after weakening survivors before they cure themselves. Somehow people still manage to let you shoot like 3 times, like are these people not AI? I genuinly am curious what are this people doing in chases? Like looking behind is a BASIC thing to do, what on earth are they doing?
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4man escape rate is nearly 50%. That’s significantly higher than what the devs say they want (40%)
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Nurse is the only killer you can't bully. Most killers are ok but some needs buffs. Killer will never be too strong, except Nurse as I said.
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They have a low winrate because "high mmr" is fake concept unless you're very new or bad at the game you are considered high mmr for matchmaking purposes which is why we're in the current situation where you get 1-2 newer (in dbd terms) teammates and just get rolled.
Post edited by LeFennecFox on1 -
You'll hit two people at hooks, now it won't always translate into damage, you've still HIT two people. You can also get easy hits like this with discordance, although admittedly it won't work forever or if they split up. But it's not nearly as rare as you're portraying, nor does high skill dictate whether it happens or not when unhooking.
The way to play Unknown is to not commit immediately after weakening someone. Ideally you encounter them again later, fully weakened, and two tap them. This works quite often in my experience, and if the survivor went out of their way to find me and stare at me, at least they've wasted their time.
That said, I've seen Xeno obliterate fellow comp players in 1 v 1's with this killer without having to do what I've suggested above. Now yes not everyone is his level, but I think it's fair to take high level players as a basis. You have to remember he can:
-Run at 115%
-Bait his projectile by tapping the power without punishment.
-Has addons that apply weakened for free
-And you've mentioned his powerful teleport which is, I agree, probably his strongest asset
This guy is better than Huntress, but also much more difficult to play. Although maybe he is overrated, I feel like there isn't still a solid consensus on his real power level despite the showcases.
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While i do agree survivor gameplay is stale and needs new mechanics instead of relying on killers with a new gimmick to have fun however i disagree you thinking survivors are just weak they can be strong especially in coordinated groups and Devs can't make regular m1 killers anymore cause both sides would be bored and poor map balance would make them the weakest killer in the game
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pretty much agree
Singularity- very rare cause he requires so much setup and then has to infect and then teleport to have a chance to damage only to then be hard countered by a 1 press emp with a very long down time.
Xeno- literally just nemesis except no infection
chucky- juke his dash hes a 110 killer slow af
unknown- has to infect first to damage miss 1 shot you have to reinfect. Only has 4 TPs max that can be cleansed in 5 seconds
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Improvements to survivor should be done to help better coordination it would especially help soloQ. We should see other survivors perks in match and I think all survivor should see the basekit antimechanic progress. Many has suggested basekit kindred with only seeing the other survivors aura as well. Swf already can communicate all that information so it would be very minor buff for them. Maybe even killers could get buffs then if kill rates would go bit down and that would nerf mostly swf.
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Ok so your point being that it's Power Creep… but giving they way that the BHVR is coding the game it was inevitable
And Maps play a big part in everything as well
Killers that have mobility are king for reasons that have been explained many times or are able to get injuries from a distance
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Great ideas. These have my full support.
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I would disagree here. Killers becoming more complex by design doesn't mean they are becoming more powerful.
Killers like Xeno or Unknown definitely have more in their kit, but that's because BHVR has to constantly try and come up with something new for their killers. I don't think that makes them more powerful though. I wouldn't say that Unknown or Alien are stronger than Huntress for example.
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I actually feel like BHVR has done a great job avoiding power creep... they are one of the few gaming companies I know who are willing to actually nerf things and take the flack for it.
People react 5 times more intensely to having something taken away, compared to being given something. This is why power creep happens, to avoid the flack they and bad press they would take. Most companies just buff other stuff, and very rarely nerf... this of course is how power creep happens.
BHVR on the other hand does nerf things that need nerfing quite often, and they take all the slander, insults and whine that goes with it directly on the chin…
I actually applaud them for that.
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We literally have the actual kill rate of each Killers, all of which are within the 70% to 50% aka being near 60% which is bHVR's goal.
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Small remark: good experienced Nurses hard difficult to bully. Most Nurses aren't good as her place near the bottom on killer statistics shows.
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theres certainly a lot going on with newer killers. To be fair its hard to stay simple and unique after seven years of development.
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You could argue that the top tier of killers are too strong with a full meta loadout. But you also have to consider that almost half the killer roster doesn't have a power on many maps if the survivors are any good. Yes, Nurse with 4 slowdowns is probably too strong. But on the flip side, Freddy straight up doesn't have a power most of the time against a good survivor. Like, even with Xenomorph, you're going to spend half the game holding W and breaking turrets against good players.
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"Only." Only if we are SWFng.
Definitely gonna need your source on 'only 50 players in dbd in a swf tops" claim. Sounds like its missing a digit or two.
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