Otz calls out Survivor Entitlement and Devs not Killswitching
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Makes sense as they are ultimately the ones responsible for this.
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It would take a uniquely petulant kind of person to remain playing a game where they don't have fun just to make sure everyone else isn't having fun. It's not how normal people behave; normal people stop playing the game, they don't actively contribute to others not wanting to play the game. There is something fundamentally wrong with the game, on many levels, entitled players removing what little fun others have left is certainly one of those issues.
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the thumbnail…😭
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Ah yes, another judgemental guy with a bias and a lot to say.
lobby dodgingKillers do not need to DC if they can prevent it by dodging the lobby. You can opt-out of 4 Claudettes having each other on the friend list. There is no dodging a proxy-camping P100 meta Blight or 3genning pre-nerf SM.Survivors DC and they usually get met with Survivor buffs or killer nerfs, or … bothWhat? Usually? You make it sound like survivors get strong buffs every other patch while killers get nothing but nerfs when it has been relatively even in the last 24 months except for 6.1.0 which, as a reminder, buffed killer speeds by 10% and nerfed survivor ones by 10% on top of adding 10s to gens besides other things. Barely noticeable… right.I do not disagree with all the things you say but some of them come through a massive killer lens. Like killers don't laugh at survivors disconnecting or killer main streamers don't have dc counters for their chat to enjoy.
Sure, a lot of survivors quit matches for no reason. Though I can respect the Ace in that Ghostface match for making a point.
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I think people forget DBD is an asymmetrical …HORROR SURVIVAL… killers aren’t inherently broken. Passives are just what carry them harder than the perks. We saw that in lights out. Many of the top killers perkless were no match. Passives carried. When skull merchant got nerfed on this year people still complained chess merchant.
The other day I played dredge and a dude called me a hacker cause he kept getting caught out. Survivors have a million combinations versus the smaller killer pool of perks. I’ve seen down right abusive 200% speed builds, the drive by flashbangs, unbreakable/adrenaline abuse. Then people complain you’re killer. I’m pyramid head not wesker. I’m dredge not skull merchant. But somehow it’s warrant enough to either flex hard af on a killer or die on hook cause he’s running meta perks.
Only reason the perks are meta are to counter survivors. Y’all forgot people were running calm spirit and distortion for friends till the end. Many killers gave up on that and you still ran that combo. Removing penalties is not going to help selfish survivors. Either learn to adapt to the situation or get up from your seat walk out the door take a deep breath of outside air and come back for another match when you’re in a seemingly unwinnable situation.
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I almost never have people given up against me when I play Killer. So the statement that Survivors DC over everything is wrong, at least from my experience.
I also dont see people giving up as often when I play Survivor. More frequently than when I play Killer, but thats about it.
But once again - doing anything about Hook Suicices will not solve anything. It is important to fix unfun things in the game. This will not remove all Hook Suicides or DC, but it will remove a part of them. People will hook suicide if they found first by an Add On-less Wraith. But at least they can try to make people not give up against things like Skull Merchant or the stacking of Slowdown-Perks.
With the latest just being an issue. I know that some genius here will now say that Killer needs Slowdown, and I would agree. However, Killers dont need 3-4 Slowdowns to win games. And it is frustrating to go against a Blight (an S-Tier Killer), with good Add Ons (double Speed, still good) AND a build of Pain Res, PGTW, Grim Embrace and Corrupt Intervention. And this is NOT needed.
And well, mayby Survivor frustration would be less frequent if BHVR would actually care about Survivors. The only thing Survivors got in the past months was the Buff to DS, which was more the revert of a Nerf the Perk did not need. Other than that, neither new content nor old revisited content was really good.
But sadly BHVR has given up on Survivor. And in the end, the Killer is the protagonist while the Survivors are there to make it a full game.
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I’m glad you said from your experience. It’s not wrong cause once again watch otz videos. Him Willie coconutrts you’ll see dcs happen for dumb reasons. Specifically each person made a video and bhvr posted the Jan-February patch notes and skull merchant was still high kills. I harp on her cause no matter what the do she will for ever have a bad rep.no one can play certain killers for fun cause they’re try hard or not fun. How many hags or ph you’ve seen.
I’ve always like sadako and only v2 I thought was broken af. The other day I streamed sadako and 2 dcs while I streamed in discord and my friends are like why. Literally stigma that she’s still a slugger. Not all survivors are entitled but a lot are glad you’re not. Same with killers we have a ######### Tom of toxic ones and I get toxic too when people bm. The issue is the game lacks sportsmanship on both side.
Survivors need to learn to stop using meta and make builds that work for you. Running meta with randoms that most likely don’t have the same mindset in solo q isn’t going to help when they work against your plans. All this to say a decent amount of survivors hate the survival aspect of dbd cause Strat and skill.
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The game has gotten so killer sided that many survivors don't see the point. When escape through the gates doesn't seem like a realistic goal most games survivors will give up.
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At this point a lot of survivors just dc because the game doesn't win itself for them.
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Survivors need to learn to stop using meta and make builds that work for you.
Please provide us with some of the builds that could be useful and could at least a little counter killer meta :)
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like I said I don’t play to meta and win matches I stalk the killer do gens and leave. For me it’s not about winning it’s about testing different ways to get out. I’m not by any means an altruist. I’ll assist but I’m the scum bag that will leave you to pop two gens. In that way it forces killer to come to me and others can save you.
I was running deadline with hyperfocus, the Ripley perk to see Allie’s when I come out of lockers for vision and Adam’s perk the pebble throw. And all I would do is distract them get injured and stay away rest of game pop gens. My team did their part by just looping the killer2 -
Away from the discussion around survivors DC’ing, it is actually shameful that BHVR have not killswitched the perk Otz is talking about it. It is also ridiculous that the bugged maps have not been killswitched. At this point I have to ask, has too much actually gone wrong since this last update? And BHVR actually don’t have the staff to handle it? Because we seem to be at an unprecedented level of issues with the game that they can’t deal with.
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People aren't having fun, that much is clear.
There's some big issues with how one person's match can be ruined, even if it costs the Killer the game, and there's very little said person can do about that.
It certainly feels like what you do as an individual player doesn't matter, it usually feels like the match was predetermined, that goes for both sides, more for Survivor but still definitely relevant for Killer.
The game is absolutely broken right now, not in a balance perspective, just in a not working perspective. The rubber-banding and desync is just awful. The hostage holding, map exploiting and perk abuse is as well. I wouldn't blame people for bowing out against that #########. In fact, I'd probably applaud a teammate for refusing to play with someone exploiting and abusing bugs. At least they have some integrity.
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the fact that bhvr has allowed so many gamebreaking bugs to plague the game is unacceptable
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Iirc, they only have bans for comp.
So far as I know, DBD doesn't have a competitive mode. Maybe if they let us see our MMR...
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The problem is that’s not what the video is really about. It was just one part of the video. In large part it’s BHVRs lack of action when it comes to exploiting and giving up.
Over the years we have had countless exploits within the game that players abuse on both sides and BHVR taking way too long with both fixing them and or kill switching them till they are fixed. He probably just focused on the survivor exploits because they are way more obvious right now. He has allowed condoned exploiting too and it’s a lot easier to hid the name of a perk in an example match then a killer.
In terms of DCing outside of SM games it’s kind of a rarity. The thing is Otz plays DBD as a full time job and thus will encounter these situations a disproportionate amount of times compared to the average person.
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Used to. They put them into the quick matches and casual ones to lower the amount of RQs.
Post edited by supersonic853 on2 -
i absolutly think without dc penalitys the gamw would be unplayable. there would be maybe 1 in 10 games that gets played to the end without anyone leaving.
thing i have seen atleast one surv dc recently.
- legion & plague
- i run full anti pallet build. got told its not fun
- full slowdown build. also not fun
- lightborn
- using my eyes to see the survivor very obviously trying to pallet safe
- going around shack and pulling them from the window
- and my favorite. i refused to chase a survivor that very obviously wanted to be chased so he cant blind me at every pallet
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Survivors absolutely are entitled but BHVR also made matters worse by basically allowing one free DC per day (and many people don't mind the second 5min DC as well).
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Btw most of the video is about how broken the game is currently for either side and the reasons for unsportsmanlike conduct.
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This. You can only treat symptoms to a point. At some point they have to address the various mechanics that cause massive differences in the fun factor from trial to trial. That's ultimately why players give up so often. Players are (understandably) not willing to gamble with their time when they load into a match against a commonly unfun thing.
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Tbf you will never satisfy everyone. I've seen people go next on perkless trapper because they stepped in a trap. So down to a point there's just people that give up on anything.
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While this is true, this does not mean that things which are problematic should not be adressed.
You cannot say that the Devs should ignore Skull Merchant being unhealthy (as an example), just because some people decide to give up on basically everything.
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I mean I don’t think the 4% should exist at all. It’s just a free rng escape chance. That said his change sounds good. Remove the struggle phase and no longer allow them to remove themselves on hook.
While there are of course legitimate game problems that annoy people I think the major cause is simply entitlement.
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So let me see what killer and add ons I'm facing so I can choose to just opt out when I see P100 Skull Merchant.
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Map reworks have taken out any chance of escaping a tunneling killer. You can maybe get to one strong loop but once the pallet is gone it's a mile to anything that isn't an easy hit for every killer. It's removed any skill expression from the survivor side and feels like you have no agency in your chance to escape after being hooked early.
As killers continue to get their way with the devs turning every map into a small parking lot and every loop into "killer walks around the short side once and gets a free hit", expect survivors to give up more.
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The game hasn't been about skill for a long time. In a game that has god pallets, and almost every time it's safe for a Survivor to pre drop every pallet they run to and the Killer will waste so much time getting them that they will lose because of it.
Styptic Agent and Anti-hemorrhagic Syringe exist. And are used all the time by so called good Survivors. Talk about skill in a sarcastic way there.
Perks like Corrupt are easily played around and usually are worthless to use on any killer other than Hag, Trapper, Cenobite. Since every other Killer will want to get into a chase right away.
You talk like Killer intel perks hand them easy wins. They don't, simply knowing where a Survivor is means nothing if where they will take too long to get a down.
25% is 22.5 seconds. Hardly a long time to sit on a gen for. Also, there is no skill in just sitting on a gen in order for your team to win. Like I said at the start, skill hasn't been a thing needed in DBD for a long time. Just like there is no skill in focusing one or two people out as quickly as possible. There's intelligence to both of those plays, but it isn't skillful.
It's also not "balanced" that Survivors have perks that are uncounterable: For The People+Buckle Up. Background Player+Flashbang. Both of these uncounterable synergies prevent the Killer from using the slowdown that you hate so much btw. Maybe try using them too. Become another Survivor that makes your team invincible. Literally a 9-Lives meta
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My survivors give up when I get first down too quick, or I down someone and see in front of me another person and go chase them for more pressure. They give up when I snipe them as slinger or unknown, not only that they also give up if I use a ward and they had a map offering. Mind you I am literally playing without slowdown, my current build is (coup,bbq,nurses,brutal).
So bhvr should adress this problematic perks?, or the ability of some killers to snipe? What about going down early, this needs a fix clearly as people give up consistently because of it.
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Judgemental and bias with a lot to say? I have a lot to say because there is so much bs in DBD. And calling out said crybabies for a lame, childish attitude, if you wanna call it judgemental, whatever, they need to hear that their attitude stinks. People can play however they want to, but quitting is not playing. Entitlement has been rampant in Survivors for years now. The Devs will always cater to them because they're the biggest part of the player base.
No, but there is a way to win against a proxy camping p100 Blight. It's harder than it would be against any other Killer, but it's still a winnable situation. Killers lobby dodge against potential SWFs because they know they can expect some of the most broken stuff. Flashbang, BP, FTP, Buckle Up, Syringe, DS, OTR, Hope, Blast Mine. You would lobby dodge if you knew it was a p100 Blight, the only difference is Survivors actually have the advantages when the game loads in. Safe pallets, and a meta that makes them and their team invincible. The old 'Stall-Merchant' wasn't even a strong play style, it just bored everyone to death. She couldn't actually win from that play style if the players were smart and persisted grinding out the gens. She could only be in one place at a time. Boring but winnable.
Yes, those things are barely noticeable. A Survivor can still run in a straight line after a hit and make it about 75 meters across the map before they actually need to start looping again. And 10 seconds extra on a gen is nothing. Since there's no punishment for doing gens injured, they will always fly by if Survivors aren't wasting their own time by not progressing their objective.
In a game where skill has minimal impact on both sides, and it's all about having more to work with than the opponent does, it's obviously gonna make for some entitled players, in addition to the Devs history with buffs and nerfs. They just buffed the strongest Survivor perk in the game. So now, if there is 2 DS and 2 Blast Mine in a lobby and get used, the Killer will eat a 20 second stun at minimum. And then add Flashbang and BP to it. More stun time. Killers could be mass quitting against all that stuff, going against that in almost every match, over and over is so frustrating. Survivors will gladly DC on mass the moment a Killer so much as takes the early advantage in a match. Now, I'm not the type to DC against anything other than a cheater in my lobby. Hence my stance on players just doing the gens helping the team. Or sticking around to the end because I know the chances of getting 2 kills in EGC is high due to the altruistic nature of Survivors to greed for the 4-man escape.
There's only 2 acceptable reasons for a Survivor to quit:
- Something is happening irl and they have to go deal with it.
- There's a cheater either on their team or the Killer is cheating.
Anything else just makes them entitled.
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whats a waste of time is leaving your teammates to die.
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Well, Overwatch has done nothing but try to kill off the casual playerbase and fully commit to being a competitive game for years, so I can't say I'm too surprised.
I'd hate for DBD to head down that road.
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I think a lot of that is to due with the fact that most people have accepted that if they go down, their game is likely over.
Could be wrong, but that's the attitude I've seen. Especially for early downs.
I really think Survivors need a mid-match or late-match comeback mechanic. I think that would help out a lot.
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"Instead of quitting and making your team lose because you're a bottom."
PLEASE RECONSIDER YOUR WORDING 😭
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I feel called out...👀
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I try very hard in my dbd matches i'll have you know
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Nah, as someone who plays overwatch I 100% support that change. The quality of my quickplay matches went up a considerable amount after that change.
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If that is as your words an attitute, why change it, I rember vividly you commented on killer players that just because they believe combos like fladhbang+bgp are uncounterable they fo not need a change because counterplay exists. Killers who get 1 hook and 2 gens done (which is mostly gg if the team isnt throwing) get told that thr match is not over.
However this speech does a full 180 when survivors perception of something comes into play, you can a 100% come back from an early down as survivor, and if you cant you should get told what killer players get told when they get a rough start: get better at the game.
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What are you responding to exactly? Coz I pretty much said that exact same thing in my comment, and then I made it clear "quitting is not playing the game."
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Some system like the following IMO would incentivize healthier gameplay for both sides (although I know increasing gen speeds at all would and can be seen as very annoying, but for the sake of balance and health I think it’s necessary).
- 4 survivors alive: Gen speeds are 10-15%% slower, meaning they now take 9 seconds longer for a solo gen, putting solo repair speed at 99 seconds or 103.5 seconds
- 3 survivors alive: Gen speeds are 10-15% faster, meaning a solo gen takes between 76.5 and 81 seconds (not sure if 15% would be too much tbh)
- 2 survivors alive: Gen speeds increase by 35%, meaning a solo gen takes 58.5 seconds to complete.
Killers would be more incentivized to spread pressure and (potentially) not feel as big of a need to stack gen regression. Survivors would be more incentivized to stick the game as they now have some sort of chance of getting out even in the common scenario of 3 people left 3 gens left. These numbers are a spitball and I’m sure with testing a better range can be found but repair speeds should be based off survivors left so issues like people immediately quitting upon an early down don’t feel like the match is automatically lost.
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Its funny, if killers play a specific way that ppl dont like the solution is punishment and making it harder.
(e.g. tunneling, camping, slugging, etc.) Punish them, make it not worth, etc. pp….
But if survivors play in a way, that ppl dont like the solution is "oh just let them, make it easier, they have a reason for it, you need to have understanding for their situation/feelings" like yeah, sure…
This community is so broken xD7 -
A lot of people just don't like the game…but play the game...
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Trying to balance a game around 3 groups of players is never going to work. The game has constantly been shifting towards having balance between SWF & Killers, which ultimately makes solo queue players extremely weak. Add in the 60/40 desired win/lose ratio for killers and you have an even bigger gap when it comes to balance.
The biggest portion of the playerbase comes from solo queue and what you're now seeing is the consequence of solo queue players feeling like they have been abused and left out of game balancing for over a year.
BHVR are making changes but it's never enough and they're too scared of balancing around solo v killer due to the fact that it would make SWF god tier and most likely cause massive issues with queue times if Killers just decided to quit.
Its really an impossible situation because whatever they do they will lose. The healthiest thing for DBD would have been to never allow SWF teams in the first place, as that would have made balancing significantly easier, but that ship sailed long ago and it's definitely not a viable option these days.
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I don't blame them with that mindset. Keep in mind a killer has the power to determine the flow and the feeling of the match depending on any tactic they do. Regardless if it's tunneling, camping etc which ruins the experience for 4 ppl in the lobby just to make 1 person feel good in the game. But of course, always play like you want. Also, majority of ppl play survivor anyways so you'll hear their complaints more often
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4 survivors alive: Gen speeds are 10-15%% slower, meaning they now take 9 seconds longer for a solo gen, putting solo repair speed at 99 seconds or 103.5 seconds
Oh I remember what happened in the first day that bhvr added +10 seconds to each gen - every killer used Thana so every gen was unbearable. I wonder what will happen when you increase gen time even more? Maybe let survivors work on one gen for 2 minutes straight, so PR+POP+Grim combo would be even more balanced on Blight/Wesker? :)
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Because it isn't about YOU as a Survivor.
In the VAST majority of games, what you do doesn't matter. It's what your team does. If you have a bad player, and the Killer knows it, they're dead and there's nothing you can do. 99/100 that game was lost in the matchmaker. That feels absolutely horrible. When you lose a teammate early, or have an early down, it is extremely hard to recover from that. I do not think Survivors should be completely without hope if they have a bad start, just like Killers.
As a Killer, you almost always have the opportunity to come back. That's just how the game is set up. The longer the game goes on, the more likely it is that you'll secure a winning outcome.
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If I wanted to play a super serious game, I would've played comp.
You'd think Blizzard would stop digging their own grave, but I suppose not.
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dude if you are being genuine then just not play the game
you bring the game down by dcing every chance you get
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Pretty much this. If the killer plays in a fair way, I bet we would have a lot less dc.
Pretty tired of having camping/tunnelers/sluggers or killers that play so well and so agressively that they can put everyone at 2 hooks and not even 2 gens done. Yes, this happens.
Like, I just want to feel there's a chance to win and to get a good amount of bloodpoints.
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I play without slowdown and using brown addons as slinger/unknown, people still dc if you are not throwing the match or down them early. Survivors saying "if the killer plays fair we will not DC" is as honest as killers saying "If killers get buffed we will not tunnel" both of them are just plain lying.
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The whole blaming killers for their own actions is really tiring. Some people will never take accountability for not rage quitting.
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