Nerfing DS is crazy
"its to effective" Sry that this perk was too good and forced the killers to play fair and has prevented a 3 against 1 at 3 generators
Answers
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I did not really notice that Killers tried to avoid DS. The thing is that even when the Nerf back then was reverted, 5 seconds nowadays is worse than 5 seconds pre-6.1.0, because Killers got stronger and Maps got weaker overall.
Reducing it to 4 will probably just result in the Perk not being used anymore.
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It was an unnecessary nerf. It was probably done to mitigate the incoming storm of complaints about how they nerfed regression. Now they can say "Guys we nerfed survivors too!". I totally understand the buckle up and background player nerfs but I can't think of any other logical reason for the DS change.
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I think 4 seconds will still be useful, but I also didn’t really have a problem with 5 seconds either. Questionable to me that they’re re-nerfing it so quickly (and I say that as a mostly Killer main who also never really used DS as a survivor, even after the 5 second buff).
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They really can't stop from nerfing at least one unwarranted thing for survivors in every update.
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Using both OTR and DS, I rarely able to use DS because with OTR I could last over 60sec which disable DS.
Taking a hit with OTR gives far better distance than DS, too.
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The way I see it is that they planned to add a longer animation to it, which turned out to be horrible. But they balanced the Stun time of 5 seconds with the longer animation in mind. Now without the longer animation, they reduce the stun to 4 seconds to end up on the value they initially wanted to have.
This would also explain the quick nerf.
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Tunneling is not an unfair strategy, as long as reducing the number of survivors from 4 to 3 and attempting to reduce work efficiency is the most effective method. It becomes more effective as PoP etc. are nerfed and there are fewer ways to interfere with Gen.
Even though tunnels have attracted many complaints from main survivors, it is senseless to make operational adjustments that narrow the options that do not require tunneling.
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I'll give it 2 months till its back to 3 seconds and gives exhaustion. Once somethings too strong for survivors it's immediately blasted, Killers playing scream simulator blowing up a gen every 30 seconds with quad slowdown? Nah g that's fine leave it, oni lunging across the map carrying survivors cos of a bug? Fine bro say less, Blight "hug teching" walls exploiting a bug? All good we will fix it in a year and a half.
B-but wait survivors are abusing Kinetic Energy exploits to sauce Gens, we must killswitch it! BHVR have and seemingly will continue to hold Killer players hands and until the game is balanced fairly for both sides I'm happy to stay well away from playing both sides
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Well, I did notice Survivors trying to force DS on Killers more often.
Maybe that's why you didn't notice less tunnelling because they asked for it :)
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I only noticed that Killers tried to blow this out of proportion, nothing else.
8 -
Nice us vs them. Potential energy still wasn't kill switched after all, giving survivors more than a month to speedrun games with 0 effort. And please, remind, how long did it take them to nerf the original DS?
They are also going to nerf a bunch of slowdown perks in this update, but of course it's THEIR perks, they should be always nerfed, unlike OURS. It takes someone to actually play both roles to understand that second chance perks and gen slowdown perks are the worst disease that ever happened to the game, both denying and prolonging the opposite team's objective and sucking all the fun from the game, so ideally both of these kinds of perks should be nerfed to the ground if not removed completely: no extra lives for survivors and no extra gen gauges for killers. That would be fair.
4 -
i used the perk when it was 3 seconds and will continue using it. 3 seconds was usually enough to get to a loop. 1 second off 5 is not that bad. maps arent entirely weaker so im not sure where this fallacy came from. some maps are bad for survivor and some are bad for killer, thats how dbd is. if every map was horrid like certain players claim, people could not be looping for very long times even today. considering that the 3 most popular regression perks and 2 strong killers chucky and wesker are getting nerfed in the same patch, this is overall big buffs for survivor regardless of ds. its only expected that they nerf DS. people need to stop exaggerating this nerf, and do not unequip without trying it out first. as a solo, there is not much more disappointing than seeing your teammate get put back on the hook right after rescue bc they didnt pay the $5 tax.
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Brother your other perks got buffed to hell and you took the time to whine about one perk losing 1 second. At this point admit you don't want any nerfs at all.
0 -
It's weird, they only recently buffed it upto 5 and already it's apparently too strong and warrants a nerf. I thought most people, including killer mains felt that 5 seconds was fine. 4 Is obviously still better than 3 but for most survivors it's not gonna be much better than back when it was 3 and not many people ran it.
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well at least 4 seconds is better than 3
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Its just comical. You cant take any devs action serious anymore.
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How long did it take to fix the Pentimento bug where every killer would run it because the surivor couldn't see the totems aura? Forever.
But each side has their example soo..
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- dead hard was unchanged for 5 years and was meta for 9 more months before becoming fair
- MFT was meta for 6 months
- drop tech, though niche, was unchanged for like 7 years
- its disingenuous to say the devs are holding the killers hands when they just nerfed every meta slowdown perk and removed camping+3 genning, while also adding basekit bt and removing facecamping. The devs help and hurt each side indiscriminately.
- if a gen was getting hit a pop, PR, dms, and grim embrace every 30s that is an absolute skill issue on the survivor end.
- you talk about the kinetic energy exploit like that was somehow unfair to killswitch? So blight techs are unfair but exploits on the survivor end are fine?
If the devs really favored killer then they'd remove all exhaustion perks and add 10 more seconds to each gen while bringing back gen kick meta. its not like DS is even bad now, 4 seconds is still fairly strong. fairly. like OTR is probably better but this aint trash.
2 -
"Once something is too strong for Survivors, it's immediately blasted. Killers playing scream simulator blowing up a Generator every 30 seconds with quad slowdown? Nah G, that's fine, leave it."
Somebody didnt read the patchnotes.
- Pain Resonance Nerfed.
- Pop Goes The Weasel Nerfed.
- Deadlock Nerfed.
- Grim Embrace Nerfed.
- Blight Nerfed.
- Chucky Nerfed.
- Wesker Nerfed.
But yea. The Developers are Killer biased clearly.. or maybe, just maybe, they are trying to make balance changed for both sides and they dont have a bias towards any particular side?
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Yeah, tunneling is back
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They keep whiffing with this perk.
When they announced an animation change was in the works, my 'best case scenario' was at most a half second survivor animation, which would've cut the survivor stun by roughly 1 second. If they did that, a 4 second stun for the killer would be fine. It would be just as effective as the 5s version, but overall waste less time for everyone.
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Just about.
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DS just can't catch a break. Doomed to be forever on the nerf list
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This makes a lot of sense IMO
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The fact that they nerfed it and say it's "too effective" clearly shows that the dev team doesn't quite understand ( I won't say their game because I'd like to think they are competent than that) but the tunneling playstyle.
For those of us who are not so new and have been tunneled more times than one could count, we have become immune to it at this point because it is a playstyle that is almost expected for how effective it has become. It is a tool that even some killers who might not tunnel right off the bat, keep in their back pocket JUST IN CASE…. to the point that the word effective really just means easier.
So with the reasoning behind the nerf, I have to ask… what measures are they taking to balance tunneling where it doesn't require a perk to weaken such a playstyle? The fact that we have to rely on a perk from a character that you either have to purchase or play enough to hopefully see the perk in the SoS , while there are more than 100 perks existing in-game that have little to no impact on single handedly one of the the most powerful playstyles (nevermind the fact that its obnoxious as well) is wild to me.
4 -
All the people saying DS is dead now like it wasn't Top 10 in pickrate at 3 seconds is weird to me. I think it has enough bite to adequately deincentivise Tunneling, but it should hopefully curb some of the DS bodyblocks that have been getting more common as of late.
2 -
i think this was genuinely the reason the animation on ptb soaked up like 2-2.5 seconds so for killers it felt like only 3 seconds for them but since the animation was so bad everyone hated it so it went away and just went back to square 1
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Tunneling at 5 gens is such a miserable unfun experience for survivors that having a really effective way to prevent it is a must. Because of the animation, the survivor only gets part of that 5 second stun to get to a loop and, just maybe, gets to play the game longer than he sits on the hook. Sure nerf other survivor perks but the only perk that effectively reduces tunneling, which prevents miserable unfun games, shouldn’t be nerfed. Plus, it’s a ONE USE perk, it’s inherently has a severe penalty. 4 seconds is hardly anything when you remove the animation time. And again, this severely reduces unfun suvivor games, where that get tunneled at gen 5.
And let me just add, a vast majority of the player base isn’t in the top 5% of players, which can adequately use a 3 or 4 second stun time. The other medium and low skilled players also need a way to prevent tunneling, the in fact need an accessible way to prevent 5 gen tunneling more than the top 5% of players. Removing the 5 second stun time, removes DS as an effective means to prevent tunneling at 5 gens, from those players leaving them defenseless.0 -
its still good, just not clearly stronger than OTR. it could bear working on both hooks though.
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The biggest issue is that these slowdown perks have no counterplay, whereas DS has multiple realms of counterplay. Survivors are designed to go down in chase, so the best you can hope for is to delay or roll the dice on winning 50-50s multiple times as Survivor to prevent slowdown. DS can be hard countered by simply targeting the remaining 75% of the current lobby. Even if you have no intel on Survivors C and D, the Killer still knows Survivor A (unhookee) can have DS, and Surv B (unhooker) can't, merely lowering that number to 50% viable targets to completely avoid a perk. I think DH is an actual 2nd chance perk, but DS is instead a 'real chance' perk. I can't avoid a DH without advance use of anti-exhaustion perks/add-ons, but I can almost always avoid a DS/UB (outside absurdities like a 4-man Breakdown+comp cornering for UB).
Personally I would usually play with PR alone on Ghosty, and can easily win the vast majority of my matches with effectively 540-720 gen seconds to work with (5-7 gens plus 100% regression effectively shifting that number to 6-8*90). Arguably if they nerfed all slowdown by 50% (on top of the proposed nerfs), then we could basekit 10 more seconds onto gens fairly. That would put us at (with 10% PR) 540-740 gen seconds (5-7*100 + 40), and stacked slowdown is even less effective. The problem here though is that all the maps have too few usable pallets anymore, and can be bruteforced/bloodlusted to win through attrition ala old CoB/OC/Eruption styled free wins. Reducing the effectiveness of stacking slowdown is the best thing we can do to fix that if we can't have real pallets anymore.
Also Buckle Up and Background Player, which have also been problem perks with less counterplay than DS, but more than slowdown, are also being adjusted (although I think BU should have just been changed to not work with FTP instead, and BP shifted the speed boost to AFTER the pickup completes, not on starting it).
As far as the PE exploit, now we are going to have a bunch of Survivors with artificially inflated MMR, and since they can't bug abuse to win anymore will provide Killers with plenty of free wins in return. That seems like a problem that solves itself in the long run, as those Survivors took out a loan, and now Killers can now enforcerepaying the debt on those bug abusers.1
