Deja vu again and again

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bazarama
bazarama Member Posts: 224

3 games 12 survivors and 9 of them running deja vu.

Also in same 3 games had to face

7 prove thyself

10 windows.

4 off the record.

5 ds.

7 adrenaline.

9 toolboxes

8 brand new parts.

M1 killers ars going to suffer a lot more with new gen regression nerfs added to second chance and speed perks.

All 3 games with trapper were awful (although I'm kinda new to trapper having not played him much).

I shudder to think how relatively new players (or people learning a new killer) are going to cope.

Comments

  • C3Tooth
    C3Tooth Member Posts: 8,241
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    Play new killers give you easy survivors. Survivors I play against as Myers is far better than when I play Blight which I never play, I can win as Blight without even using power.

    Dejavu saves only 6sec for every 84sec sit on Gen. Its far weaker than a Brown tool where it save 6sec for 16sec sit on Gen. Both save 6sec but its all about the time required to sit.

  • Nazzzak
    Nazzzak Member Posts: 4,968
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    I guess they could revert the speed from 6% back down to its original 5% if you think that will make a difference. I'd like to keep the gen information part of the perk though. Maps are increasingly being made smaller through reworks, so gens are often spawning closer together.

  • tyantlmumagjiaonuha
    tyantlmumagjiaonuha Member Posts: 521
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    We were told at first that the 3gen measures were strengthened before they were implemented, but BhVR has forgotten what they said and did in the past, so they have stayed the same. 5 seconds effect time of DS is also strong, even though they had implemented it themselves in the past, and the numbers after PTB 8.0.0 in PoP were also the same as the numbers after PTB 8.0.0 in the past.These are the numbers that we said we were going to upper correct because they were a bit weak ourselves.

  • Junylar
    Junylar Member Posts: 2,005
    edited May 12
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    SoloQ is already as abysmal as it has ever been, you want gens to take 120 seconds now? If you nerf survivors a bit more, the new soloQ meta will be No Mither + Plot Twist with instant dying state on trial load for a peaceful death in a corner, and the winners will be those who successfully bleed out before the killer finds them.

  • MoNosEmpire
    MoNosEmpire Member Posts: 649
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    Noob perks will always be meta as players learn the game then are unable to play without them.

  • vBlossom_
    vBlossom_ Member Posts: 386
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    Worth noting that this is the best case scenario in which survivor is uninterrupted and does gen from 0% to 100%.

    5 SECONDS DIFFERENCE

  • Blueberry
    Blueberry Member Posts: 13,550
    edited May 12
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    The gen speed problem isn't perk related at all. The perks are fine. It's base game issues.

    We need to stop nerfing perks and focus on buffing bad ones.

  • MechWarrior3
    MechWarrior3 Member Posts: 1,600
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    Still absolutely weird Deja Vu's buff was never reverted like intend. It was only meant to exist as a temporary solution until Regress Events came in.

    It shouldn’t be able to stack with other dejavú and same with resilience stacking. It’s too much in my opinion

  • coco_shotz
    coco_shotz Member Posts: 249
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    When I do run deja it's usually to prevent a 3 gen situation not so much for the speed boost

  • Chaosrider
    Chaosrider Member Posts: 489
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    This just reads like you doint know anything about this game. Learn to play Trapper.

  • ChaosWam
    ChaosWam Member Posts: 1,365
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    The downplaying here is unreal.

    And to those focusing on one survivor doing a gen with just Deja Vu, you're forgetting that it stacks with other survivors, other gen perks, toolboxes and benefits greatly from another survivor knowing how to loop halfway decently.

    I'm speaking from experience here, running it in my Hyperfocus/Stake Out builds at times. It's an absolute snowball perk too, because the last 3 gens are guaranteed to be a speed boost even if they're completely spread out.

  • ChaosWam
    ChaosWam Member Posts: 1,365
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    Even with the efficiency penalty, just 2 survivors alone can complete a gen in 52.94 seconds without perks. Stacking Deja Vu and Prove will still be a dramatic increase.

    And why are we talking about every other progression perk than the ones I said? I also see a lack of Streetwise/Built To Last being mentioned as I combo those into Hyperfocus/Stake Out and do a gen by myself extremely fast.

    But to keep this on the topic of Deja Vu, there's still the problem it's a massive snowball perk that only becomes better the less gens there are, ESPECIALLY if you break the 3 gen.

  • JeanGreyarea
    JeanGreyarea Member Posts: 498
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    I had a game where I was using diversion, iron will wake up and sole survivor and got tunneled by a huntress player and bleed out on the ground. Thats why people run meta perks

  • vBlossom_
    vBlossom_ Member Posts: 386
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    Stacking Deja Vu and Prove will still be a dramatic increase.

    No, it wouldn't.

    Without: 90/(0.85*2) → ~53 seconds for gen

    With: 90/((0.935+0.051)*2) → ~45,6 seconds for gen ~7 seconds saved per gen best case scenario

    just 2 survivors alone can complete a gen in 52.94 seconds without perks

    Yes, but they need to actually COMPLETE that gen and in this meta with constant PR into POP it's not a great idea to focus on one gen, but to split on two gens (it always was best idea to split and not do gens together btw).

    Just let's think about it.

    It's better to have two gens done for 35% than one with 60% progress, because when killer approaches said gen, two survivors are ambushed and have to run away instead of one.

    With Streetwise + Built to Last + Hyperfocus + Stake Out. Okay, it's strong build, but you don't have any perk that gives you second chance, exhaustion perk, distortion etc. - something for something

  • CrackedShevaMain
    CrackedShevaMain Member Posts: 309
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    Yes but in this scenario you are running an entire gen speed build meant to do gens quickly. That also leaves you open to vulnerabilities elsewhere like healing, being seen by aura reading perks from the killer and no exhaustion perks for chase.

    We can say “but what about all 4 players running those?! But the stats have shown time and again that that o ly ever happens in higher MMR swfs which are not the norm in this game. Those situations are not common whatsoever. 4 man solo Q survivors are not coordinating like this.

  • ChaosWam
    ChaosWam Member Posts: 1,365
    edited May 12
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    Apply your numbers to an active match against half of the lower roster. The killer still needs to chase other survivors, secure the down, hook, and make it to your gen. You're too focused on the 7 second shave to see it goes from 53 to 46 with just a few perks and not adding toolboxes to the mix. Every second counts when you have 4 active survivors.

    And yes, I don't have a second chance perk. But if I run this build and my fellow survivors run one deja vu/prove and ways to keep themselves alive, I can manage to get them out roughly 70% of the time depending on the killer even if they run Pain Res/Pop.

    And really, I wouldn't have a problem with these things if gen progression itself had a hard cap on how fast they can be repaired/regressed. It's the biggest problem in my eyes.

    Also can you address what I said two times already about Deja Vu being a huge assist to snowballing gens when the first few gens can be popped within the first chase due to strong toolboxes/perks/addons?

  • ChaosWam
    ChaosWam Member Posts: 1,365
    edited May 12
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    It's a good thing I didn't make that argument since I can reliably pop gens with this build by myself. I get games where I manage to do 4 gens worth of work by myself if I get good at the great skill checks. If I get chased, I rely on strong loops and wasting as much time as possible for the others.

  • vBlossom_
    vBlossom_ Member Posts: 386
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    Apply your numbers to an active match against half of the lower roster. The killer still needs to chase other survivors, secure the down, hook, and make it to your gen. You're too focused on the 7 second shave to see it goes from 53 to 46 with just a few perks and not adding toolboxes to the mix. Every second counts when you have 4 active survivors.

    I kinda don't see this issue and based on the forums/killrate, pickrate of said perks it's almost non-existing tbh

    If you can loop the killer and hit great skillchecks quite often that means you are in higher MMR and so do killer you are versing, so they should adapt and improve their skills. And if someone is in high MMR then if they pick weaker killer they have to assume that games would be harder.

    I don't know why dbd should be balanced around players that could often hit greats, can loop the killer for several gens and are kind of "veterans".

  • ChaosWam
    ChaosWam Member Posts: 1,365
    edited May 12
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    Except half the time, the killers ARE doing what they should. I recognize this in my matches, I'm not going against baby killers or killers who don't rotate their gens like they should. The problem is, by myself with these builds, I can progress it much faster than they can reliably regress it even with the pop/pain res combo at times because, unless they're killers like Blight and Nurse, they still need to get to the gen with whatever movement speed they have.

    Which is where I have a problem with Deja Vu. It's free information on the problematic gens and snowballs speed to the last 3. By itself the speed isn't going to be a game breaker but it's absolutely being used for gen optimization more and more.

    As for the killrates, it worries me that it's a possibility that gen speeds are a major contribution to escape rates and isn't being addressed while other aspects are being buffed (like how they tried to buff huntress before) and will create a weird balance issue down the line.

  • VomitMommy
    VomitMommy Member Posts: 1,657
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    This is not best case scenario, if we talk about maximum value. You basically expect killer to never kick / apply any slowdown perk to that gen.

  • CountOfTheFog
    CountOfTheFog Member Posts: 1,934
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    They never said it was going to be reverted, people just assumed it would be because of the reason it was buffed.

  • ChaosWam
    ChaosWam Member Posts: 1,365
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    Patch 7.0.0:

    The wording of 'need more options at their disposal right now' kinda allows us to assume, yes, it was a temporary fix.

  • MechWarrior3
    MechWarrior3 Member Posts: 1,600
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    I think they did actually. I’ll see if I can find the source.

  • C3Tooth
    C3Tooth Member Posts: 8,241
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    saving 16sec of a Gen still cant tell everything.

    There is a difference between you have to sit for 74sec to save 16sec. And you click on a 74sec Gen to complete it instantly.

  • MechWarrior3
    MechWarrior3 Member Posts: 1,600
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  • Mr_K
    Mr_K Member Posts: 9,130
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