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BHVR's reasoning for justifying the Deadlock nerf is false
"Deadlock is quite effective while being rather easy to activate. We have slightly reduced the duration of the generator blocker to bring it in line with other options."
This is completely false because the average duration time that generator block perks are 30-40 seconds and they're making Deadlock 25 seconds when you have DMS with up to 30 seconds, Undone with up to like 30 seconds, Grim Embrace up to 40 seconds, Corrupt Intervention up to 90 seconds, etc. This means that 25 seconds is NOT "in line with other options" by getting nerfed.
While, yes, it is easy to activate then you have to try explaining that with all of the other options with the fact that they're all EQUALLY as easy to activate with DMS requiring you to just simply hook a survivor on any hook to activate, Undone requiring you to just simply kick a gen(very hard to activate BHVR, very hard), Grim Embrace just simply requiring the SAME THING as DMS just with the extra step of leaving the hook to activate fully, and Corrupt Intervention just requiring the killer to spawn in(again, VERY hard to do BHVR).
Just undo this nerf because your reasoning is COMPLETELY false for justifying this nerf and hardly anyone complains about Deadlock meaning that you essentially nerfed it just because you felt like it.
Comments
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hardly anyone complains about Deadlock
That's false, this perk gives value for nothing and incentivises camping / tunneling.
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With how fast your response is I assume that you just skipped through most of this post.
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Both of which are going to increase now that popular gen defense perks are getting nerfed and saboing becomes easier.
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No, I've read it all, it's not that big.
Also what kind of response is that? 🤣
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Yeah, surely, and could you tell me when camping / tunneling actually decreased without some busted mumbo-jumbo builds for killers?
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Exactly- They need to start doing some base-game changes to compensate changes like these or else tunneling is just gonna keep getting worse-
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Or they can hard punish tunneling, for example by making gen speeds and healing faster for xx seconds when only one person got hooked twice in a row
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Then nobody will play the game as killer and if they do they will just start all using the strongest killers like Nurse to make up for the game being way too punishing with gen times. In other words these kinds of changes are gonna make que times worse and there's gonna be many more annoying killers like Nurse being picked since none of the weak killers will be able to physically keep up at all.
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pain res/grim embrace/deadlock is what i run on most killers.
tunneling not so much. it is main strength is camping. they're nerfing grim embrace by 2 seconds and deadlock by 5. 5+2 = -7 seconds. I would much rather run chase perks or good expose perks/anti-heal perk that don't suck to play aggressive. unfortunately, it is just not rewarding compare to running gen defence and proxy camping. defensive is more rewarding.
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You essentially put that perfectly
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I have never liked using deadlock. It's a type of perk where I never feel like I get value from it. I most likely have but it never felt like it to me. Also, I still remember that one time a group of survivors bypassed my last deadlock by doing two gens at the same time and it caused me to lose the match bc I got so tilted about it. Ever since then I just stopped using it. That said the Nerf is making me want to run the perk even less XD
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"BHVR should punish killers that tunnel survivors"
Then nobody will play the game as killer
So you are assuming that all killers tunnel? 🤨
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If the major forms of gen defense are nerfed then the only other options is to compensate without a base-game change to slow the gens down naturally is tunneling/proxy camping/slugging as weak killers even more than what is currently needed or play as ridiculously strong killers like Nurse for extremely fast chases/downs.
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I have been running a mostly chase oriented build on my main (Pyramid Head) for the longest time, and it very fun and strong if it works, but the second you make one big blunder and lose a chase/let a survivor escape, it tends to all fall appart, because you have literally no gen regression and all those other survivors that you aren't chasing have just been sitting uninterrupted on their gens.
This game is hella hard to balance and with every new round of balances and meta shakeups, it seems that the rules and restrictions are coiling ever tighter around everything, leaving even less room for playful build non-sweat playstyles. Maybe we should really pedal back A LOT and just try to have fun. The problem probably is, that this community is too far gone down the sweat hole: you can't make them unlearn the behaviours and tactics that everyone had to rely on this last 2 or something years, so even if we went back to a more pure and innocent build of the game, the community won't regain its innocence and just play as sweaty as they are used to, now.
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I don't even understand the problem with Deadlock.
If survivors split gens, Deadlock can only target the highest one. And for it to activate, you have to lose a generator, actively losing your match to get value. It's like saying Fire Up needs to be nerfed because it's too easy to activate.
If they really wanted to nerf it, make it last less and less for each survivor killed or something.
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That's what I said as well- Hardly anybody complains about Deadlock and a perk being easy to activate ain't a justifiable reason for a nerf since there are MANY perks in the game on both killer and survivor that don't require much of anything to activate. There's even some like Brutal Strength and Insidious that are active by you just existing really.
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OTR also gives value for nothing, and yet it's nowhere near being nerfed.
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That's also another example of a good perk that only needs you to exist to activate.
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Why is it when survivors get a buff that incentivizes doing something other than splitting on gens, something that also requires interaction with the killer, your response is "i'm going to camp and tunnel now"? Same for not being able to entirely delete a gen after every hook. This is why nerfing DS again so soon is a mistake.
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Don't forget about slugging, the only counter to sabo builds.
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That nerf was necessary to keep the promise that BHVR made awhile ago and most of the community already agreed on DS being 4 seconds is what it should've been and not 5 seconds.
Also I don't see how this comment makes sense with the thread.
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I responded to someone saying killers will just tunnel and camp more now (even though this is a rather empty threat considering they've already been doing so for 8 years with no sign of slowing down).
DS going to 4 seconds just means tunneling becomes easier for about the 50th time. Every killer getting several add ons made basekit buffs tunneling. Every map rework creating massive deadzones between useful loops buffs tunneling. Every round of nerfing any useful survivor chase perks buffs tunneling.
Some day I'd like to see the game in a state where 99% of matches weren't killer stands 16.1 meters away from the hook with a hatchet/gun/throwing knife/blink/phase/chainsaw/teleport/rush attack ready to zoom back and ruin someone's play session asap
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I mean, unless you're being tunneled, you don't really get value.
If you can heal up and go do a Conspicuous Action, then you're just left with pre-buff OTR which really isn't that good. Deadlock on the other hand is Generator Slowdown where you need it the most, completely automatically with zero input.
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So do most survivor perks. You get value for doing nothing. Camping and tunneling are also strategies. So that’s not a valid reason.
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I think you're maybe focusing too much on one half of that statement instead of the whole thing.
Like, it's not just that it's easy to activate, it's that it's VERY EFFECTIVE for how easy it is to activate. If you do the bare minimum with DMS and Undone, for example, they are nowhere near as effective as Deadlock. For Corrupt Intervention and Grim Embrace, while they're more effective, they're also single-use; Corrupt only at the start, GE only doing more than Deadlock on the fourth stack. Also, Grim Embrace is also being nerfed, so clearly BHVR are applying that logic to GE too.
Also, I'd point out you're only considering other gen-block perks when you should probably be considering all slowdown. Deadlock is completely passive in a way that most slowdown perks aren't, which can make it seem like an obvious choice to put in your builds compared to or in addition to the others.
I'm not necessarily saying it deserves a nerf, mind you, but I don't think BHVR's rundown of the perk's strength is incorrect. It is very effective for how easy it is to activate, and it isn't in line with other tools because of that.
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I just want to say that I disagree on that because any perk that requires you to lose an objective should always be strong in any game.
Also, by that logic, that means that ALL perks(for both sides) that are strong with little effort needed should be nerfed. That logic will never justify a nerf until that kind of action is taken meaning that if that logic is being used on the killer side it also has to be used on the survivor side as well.
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To be fair, the logic wouldn't necessarily require every perk in that vein to be nerfed, it'd just require all of those perks to be comparable to other tools, right? They can still be strong, as long as they don't eclipse other tools to make them obvious choices.
Also, you aren't losing an objective to activate Deadlock. Survivors are your objective, not generators. Killers don't really have perks that activate when they "lose an objective", but they do have a few that require survivors to progress theirs, which isn't quite the same thing.
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Defending the generators IS a part of the killer's objective since losing all of the gens means that survivors have the means to escape and the killer's primary goal is to prevent the survivors from escaping.
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Defending the generators is one of the tactics a killer might use in order to achieve their goal, that doesn't make it part of that goal.
Moonwalking at a tile is something you might do to increase your chances of winning, it doesn't mean it's your objective to do it.
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Some of my teammates' primary objective appears to be moonwalking at tiles.
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You can circumvent Dead Man Switch as survivor by just not letting go of the gen. DMS is effective on average lower than 30s. Grim is 12s, and just 40s at the end (even though i think it shoulnd be so high at all). Corrupt is entirely different form of blocking that doesnt kick in midway. Undone … literally havent even seen it once cause its so bad, and effectively far less than DMS. So, youre completely out of basis.
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I think most people are getting caught up in thinking of these perks in a vacuum. When was the last time you or any other killer played with 1 perk? And let's be honest with ourselves, how often are you running a single slowdown perk in a build? I always have 2 or 3 and most of the killers I play against do too.
Pain Res, PGTW, and Deadlock aren't the worst thing to face on their own. Deadlock, Grim Embrace, DMS? That's an AFK simulator while you wait for the gen to unblock. Pain Res+Pop? You're on that gen 5ever. Doing gens is bad gameplay. They already got moved to 90 seconds. I don't see a problem with introducing less variance to gen times, because doing gens sucks.
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Yup, it's not like they have collision under endurance and can just bodyblock the killer to protect their teammates, thus giving them one extra health state, right? Devs surely wouldn't allow such an abuse! Wait a minute…
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Agree with this.
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BhVR can't help it because survivors find the act of working on Gen difficult. These are the people who say they are reinforcing sabotage because survivors don't know it exists?
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While, yes, it is easy to activate then you have to try explaining that with all of the other options with the fact that they're all EQUALLY as easy to activate with DMS requiring you to just simply hook a survivor on any hook to activate, Undone requiring you to just simply kick a gen(very hard to activate BHVR, very hard), Grim Embrace just simply requiring the SAME THING as DMS just with the extra step of leaving the hook to activate fully, and Corrupt Intervention just requiring the killer to spawn in(again, VERY hard to do BHVR).
DMS requires you to get a hook, AND push survivors off gens. DMS does nothing with just a hook. So DMS has two additional things the killer has to do in order to activate it.
Undone requires you to kick a gen, and requires survivors to miss skill-checks, which you will likely have to orchestrate yourself, too, since most survivors consistently hit checks. That's two additional requirements.
Grim Embrace requires a hook, that's one extra requirement. However, Grim also lasts half as long. It also requires you to hook a different survivor if you want any activations beyond the first.
Corrupt Intervention is the only one that comes close to Deadlock.
So yeah, Deadlock getting nerfed does bring it in line with other options, since the other options have considerably higher requirements.
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Agreed. Also of note is that Deadlock is the only perk out of these which rewards a failure, with the Killer having to lose a gen to get a free slowdown. Whilst all the other perks (with exception of Corrupt Intervention) require some effort, Deadlock just requires helps slow down the rate gens pop.
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No, even if you don't get tunneled you get 80 seconds where your aura can't be read and you make no injured sounds. You can always bodyblock as well.
Just for playing the game and losing a chase.
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"If you can heal up and go do a Conspicuous Action, then you're just left with pre-buff OTR which really isn't that good."
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Deadlock is a typical campers/tunneler's perk and rewards dirty playstyles. It should have been reworked completely to block a RANDOM gen with progress.
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You get to head to your objective without worrying about being heard or being aura read and also knowing that if you get found by a non-tunneling killer you still have endurance. If you get healed by someone else or a perk you also still keep your endurance for the entire time you're getting healed. In which case you can go find the killer on your own and body block for someone else twice if you really want to. In all cases you get to do whatever you want without fear of aura reading.
"I mean, unless you're being tunneled, you don't really get value."
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Pretty much nobody was running Off The Record before it was buffed. The bonus is small compared to the Endurance, which you have to get tunneled to get value from.
Whether you deliberately put yourself in a situation where you'll get tunneled to protect another teammate is a different question.
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The timer is 80 seconds. That's plenty of time to just get found after the killer finished chasing someone else or patrolling if you were say, getting healed by someone or trying to find a gen.
If the timer wasn't so long I'd agree with you but it is. Sure getting tunneled guarantees it'll activate, but its not like it's rare for it to happen otherwise.
Non-tunneling killers can get effected pretty easily. Remember, tunneling is not just "I got chased soon after I got unhooked". If it turned off after someone else was hooked it'd take care of that aspect and your statement would actually be true.
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Are you seriously complaining old off the record effect? Thats a new low
Also of they are body blocking just hit them and that’s it
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If their logic is some killer perks are highly used, take nothing to activate and give lots of reward why isnt windows of opportunity being touched then?
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Probably because of that last part?
Windows is nice, but it doesn't have anywhere near the level of direct impact on a trial as Deadlock or the other regression perks.
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Survi main who NEVER play killer except for daily rituals complain about deadlock? Repair another gen is not that deep
"That's false, this perk gives value for nothing and incentivises camping / tunneling"
Whats the problem with "perks that give value for nothing"? Exautions perks require more skill to be activated? Run, jump a window, falling from a height its "doing something" for you? Or your complaing for free about a healthy perk that extends the game for both sides.
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Pointing out that you still get value even if you don't get tunneled isn't "complaining". Are you sure you know what that word means? Please point out where I said it was a problem or that I'm not ok with how it works.
It was an incorrect statement so I said something about it and explained why, that's it. Then you come in with a needlessly aggressive statement making false accusations. Maybe don't be so dramatic?
Post edited by MrPenguin on1 -
Got to keep those survivors happy. Busted survivor perks will always be the last thing looked at. DS got buffed AGAIN after how it was but hey... Slowdown needs nerfs tho.
Post edited by JocelynAwakens on0 -
what is this babbling 😂
DS disables in Endgame and with Conspicuous action, difference between 3s vs 4s vs 5s is m i n u t e. It's buffing/nerfing for sake of buff/nerf, didn't change anything, this perk is very mid and NOWHERE close to what it was before.
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