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Nurse rework
Contrary to popular opinion I don't think Nurse is destined to either be a broken op killer or useless if nerfed. Her ability to go through objects is strong, but it's the distance you get and how fast you can recover your power that make her op imo. Here are my proposed changes:
- Nurse is now a 4.2 m/s speed killer
- Her first blink reaches 10 meters, the second one 6 meters, total of 16 meters of blink range
- Can now blink through outer walls if she will end up on the inside of the map at the end of an blink
- Plaid Flannel add-on (shows where you will blink) is made a basekit accessibility feature that you can turn on if you want
Add-ons
- Heavy Panting - Gives 10% longer lunge after more than 1 blink (was 30%)
Comments
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So you made her weaker but her counterplay is non existant anymore… As she can just follow you until she has clear line of sight and then blink on top of you…. I don't think this helps any of the issues, except for people will win more… And if that's all you want then you do you. But her chase interaction will be less engaging than currently.
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They could make her start her blink recharge only after her fatigue is over, and the recharge could take between 10 and 15 seconds to promote not spamming her blink attack. Sure before she was a bit slower but being able to cross 32 meters (average killer terror radius) with the fast recovery of her power, negates a lot of counterplay her slower speed brings. Besides if you're at a loop, you'll still have to predict blinks, it's not like she's gonna have basekit wallhacks now.
I think you're being way too pessimistic about this rework, but it's true power, or lack of, could only truly be seen after the changes would be tested on a ptb.
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She can’t ever be faster than survivors, no matter what other nerfs you give her because it removes too much of her counterplay.
Maybe hot take but imo Matchbox Nurse (4.4m/s with 1 blink) is more unfair and has less counterplay than the regular Nurse. This rework would be somewhat similar.
I do agree with nerfing that lunge addon though.
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By giving her too much of a cooldown on her blink not only prolongs chases way too much if you miss a blink it also makes it so holding w becomes more effective.
I don't think I'm too pessimistic, look at her matchbox addon… That is basically what you are aiming for, you removed the necessity for Nurse to use her blinks to catch up and you automatically make it so she can just follow you until she gets a safe blink hit. As the survivor you will get hit after x amount of time, no matter what you do and that is terrible design.
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Matchbox Nurse is 4.4 m/s with one full blink (20 meters), my nurse is 4.2 m/s with two blinks that when both fully charged reach 16 meters. For comparison a 4.4 m/s killer would take 25 seconds to catch up to a survivor who has 10 meters advantage on them, in comparison a 4.2 m/s killer would take 50 seconds. I can see why you would think they are very similar, but with a 5 - 15 second cooldown on blink recharge (I'm sure a sweet spot can be found) that both rewards the survivor for avoiding the blink, but doesn't outright hamper the Nurse can be found. She would be weaker, but still a usable A tier killer imo.
And about near-guaranteed hits, most killers have this (Leatherface catches you in a deadzone between loops and instadowns you, Huntress can often get these hits at pallets, Legion's first frenzy hit) and if they never or almost never could have these situations, killer would feel very bad to play in general.
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The point here is not about strenght but about a hit being guaranteed, for that it does not matter if she is 4.4 or 4.2 or 4.6 or whatever, as long as she is faster than the survivor she is not required to use her blinks to catch up. The speed itself is more about how good the killer is in the end. With your changes she would be probably around B tier at best, because running away from her would be super easy and 4.2 takes a lot of time to catch up, and since you cannot use the blink for mobility she would just be a slightly more scary Myers that can blink… She would be a horrible killer, and still boring to face, bad but annoying, because she will get those guaranteed hits from time to time.
The point about the hit being guaranteed is that it is after x amount of time, safe. No ifs and whens, but at point x you will get hit, similar to legion in his frenzy. Getting hit in a deadzone has nothing to do with that and is not comparable. Especially considering getting a hit in a deadzone can be the result of the killer creating the deadzone beforehand and then forcing the survivor to go there.
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All killers should be around A to B tier. Not sure why you think B tier killers are bad as that's a perfectly all right place to be power-wise, and since you think Nurse would be B tier, I think the rework works fine for it's purpose (making her not op, not weak).
Also her being faster than survivors would lead to guaranteed hits? Literally all other killers are faster than survivors, so why is it fair for them all to eventually catch up and get a hit, but not Nurse? Really can't understand your logic here.
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B tier at best, probably worse. I mean sure, S tier is not necessary, but the issue is just that the downgrade + the heavy punishment for missblinking is really not a good combination.
All other killers dont have a blink ability… You kinda forgot about that part didn't you?
Killer strenght should not be the main goal but how fun to play and play against a killer is and how engaging the chase interaction is. In my opinion Nurses chase interaction is great because there is quite some mind gaming from the survivors side in combination with certain areas and tiles being kind of decent against her but entirely useless against other killers. Currently she is very strong but also offers unique interaction and counterplay.
Your changes remove that counterplay entirely, breaking line of sight to force the Nurse to guess is not a thing anymore, because she catches up normally anyway, in addition to the blink being no langer usable to gain distance on the survivor, which means her gameplay would just be follow until in blink range/close enough for a safe hit and then go for it. It would be boring to go against, you would probably still win more often than not just because of how long it would take Nurse to down people that way, but it would not be fun, nor engaging, nor worth anyones time.
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nurse can already to do that at base-kit and the strength is further showcased on her iri add-on that turns her into 110% m/s killer for 1 blink.
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I didn't forget Nurse can blink, it was just irrelevant to my point. At first you said she would be even more op, but then with slightly longer blink recharge B tier at best, implying that she could be even worse (while I agree she could possibly be as "low" as B tier, thinking she could be C tier or worse with the rework is honestly just ridiculous)
Feel free to reply, but I'm not going to discus this topic anymore with you, because it seems you just want to be right at any cost, even if most of your arguments are all over the place and don't really make sense.
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There is a difference between a killer being strong and having no counter... Original Legion was not a strong killer but he didn't have a counter to his power... Those two things are completely seperate from each other and for some reason you just did not get this point. No Nurse would not be op with your rework she would be rather weak, but she would not have counterplay, which is terrible design. Interacting with her in chase would be boring.
It is fine if you don't want to reply anymore, but don't blame me for your lack of understanding my points.
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I'm assuming you're also halving the charge time for these blinks as well as halving the distance? Not going to have to charge for a 20m blink to only go 10m?
I think Nurse being as unique as she is is not something to be thrown away. Your average Nurse is a lot of fun to play against with mind games that are unique to her... the only time she becomes a problem is when you go against a God tier Nurse. As such her being completely reliant on her blink for mobility and chase is a good thing... even if I myself have to play spasmodic breathe or matchbox Nurse to be somewhat consistent results on console… her accessibility to a non mouse user is not great...
I'm not sure how to limit God Nurses. Resetting/preventing her blinks recharge until she recovers from a stun maybe so Decisive, Flashlight Saves, Pallet stuns might be actually effective could be good... but I would be very reluctant to change her away from her pure blinks playstyle basekit.
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The changes to Nurse don't need to be convoluted at all. Just do this:
- Nurse must recharge all of her Blink tokens in order to perform a Blink.
- Blink tokens only start to recharge when the fatigue, or successful attack animation has finished.
- Blink tokens take 3 seconds to recharge.
- When all Blinks have been performed, Nurse's movement speed is increased to 4.2m/s until all Blinks are recharged.
Part of Nurse's strength comes from her ability to constantly keep pressuring a Survivor, even after the Survivor does well to evade a Blink attack. If she was a basic movement Killer, like Blight or Hillbilly, it wouldn't be so bad for Survivors, but because she ignores all game physics, it will often feel that outplaying her in that instance offers little to no rewards. Making it so she cannot Blink until all her tokens are charged will allow Survivors to feel a little bit of reprieve and allow them to try to evade and elude her before she Blinks and lands on them again to reapply pressure. Delaying the Blink recharge until she is back in full control is also in line with this point.
Increasing her movement speed to 4.2m/s when she is recharging all her Blinks is to compensate for the fact it will take 6 seconds (or 9 with the Ultra Rare add-ons for 3 Blinks). The compensation is due to it being likely that a Survivor that has lots of obstacles or walls to move between, or the Nurse being behind a wall or having no access to 'Line Of Sight' will potentially end up with healthy Survivors evading her. Being able to have a speed that is slightly faster than a Survivor in those moments will allow her to sometimes catch glimpses of them while waiting for her Blinks to recharge.
The movement speed increase is also to allow the Nurse to be able to capitalise on a Survivors over commitment to evading her Blink in dead areas of the map. (Similar to how Wesker can have that option available to zone a Survivor into trapping themself and taking a health state when the attempt to re-enter the tiles near them, even if they 'outplayed' the Virulent Bound in that instance). Being 3.8m/s while having no power for 6 seconds would feel grueling to play as, and often lead to Survivors being 'too well rewarded' for utilising clunky hit boxes or deceptively large collisions when Nurse is Blinking.
Ultimately, Nurse is the most unique Killer on the roster, and her strength needn't be so dwarfing when compared to others. But doing too much to her to bring her roughly in line with others would ruin her uniqueness and potentially make her even harder to pick up and learn than she already is.
Simply providing room for satisfying interaction with her power is a great direction to go in with her. The less she dwarfs the roster in terms of strength application, the closer we can get to finally seeing just how good or bad some perks are, when Nurse isn't 'abusing' them, or being the only Killer that gets real value from them.
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