General Discussions
General Discussions
What exactly is an early game collapse?
I have heard so much talk about this in the past few years but I still don’t know exactly what it is or what it would be like
Comments
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Are you sure you don't mean end game collapse? I have never heard about an early game collapse before.
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nope early game collapse
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Basically a mechanic that got talked about for a while to not make Corrupt Intervention needed, because otherwise especially on larger maps the killer might not even find somebody before a Gen pops.
Scott Jund for example talked about it years ago and it is only a general concept not a concrete idea. Ideas that were mentioned in that context were for example all gens are blocked until a. You enter chase with a survivor b. Someone loses a health state or c. X amount of time passes.
The purpose was to give setup killers some time to do their stuff without losing half the gens while giving low mobility killers the opportunity to find someone and start chase before gens pop.
The debate was dropped and BHVR said that they dropped the concept, there was a time when they apparently thought about something like that.
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The purpose was to give setup killers some time to do their stuff
No, the purpose was to make soloQ completely unplayable even against weak killers.
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The purpose that the people who proposed the idea aimed for. ..
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Let's assume that this is introduced:
all gens are blocked until a. You enter chase with a survivor b. Someone loses a health state or c. X amount of time passes.
I wonder what would happen next:
- People would play "them weak M1 killers :((("
- People would abuse this and still play as High Mobility / Insta-Down killer with aura build and slowdowns
Surely, after that change, people would pick Freddy/Pig/Hag instead of Wesker/Blight/Billy <33
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Dunno man, some people just see this in black and white... Everything that does not help my side is purely evil... No matter if it is barely an inconvenience for them but majorly helps the other side.
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IT deactivates when you enter chase... A high mobility killer will deactivate it even faster... For Billy this thing would last like 5-10 seconds... Unless you spawn directly on a Gen you will not even start to work on one in that time, so what exactly is your point? A high mobility killer will not get much value out of the idea, which is the whole point of it... Help low mobility/setup killers get started without losing gens immediately.
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Girlipop how about we finally start to accept that the killers are so vastly different that we should implement mechanics and balance them.ona per killer basis and not as a blanket. Nurse and Blightmight don't need any early game help sure but trapper needs it so why aren't we giving him help.
I'm pretty sure Nurse is not gonna cry if she doesn't get the same treatment as the weak killers
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Generally fair, but as I said before it would not help then as much anyway, despite on paper being the same conditions for everyone.
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That's just something they should start to use as a part of the balance of certain killers. They could even start grouping the killers and then apply basekit things based on the group.
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Might also be a general rule that deli is banned? Comp bans many perks.
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Interesting, but the rules also change from tournament to tournament, don't know if all of them do it like that?
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I've never heard of this version, it is too drastic and OP, survivors need to advance their objetive, not forcing a chase or being injured which is too detrimental for them and feel weird.
The version I heard for is a mini-corrupt intervention which last around 25-30 seconds, just for the survivor not starting to do the generator which is only 2-10 meters from where they started. It seems fair and gives some time to weakest and low mobility killers.
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Fully depends on the perk doesn't it? Besides that I think at least for the early game collapse thereis no need to build different groups, as it somewhat balances itself out.
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How is it OP if it turns off as soon as you enter chase or lose a health state?
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As a frequent Myers and Ghostface player I can think of several reasons.
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Solo Q was no where near as bad back then, were talking late 2019 early 2020 here and there werent nearly as many complaints about Solo Q then.
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Literally this. So many people just dislike anything that could be a buff for the other side, it’s such an us vs them mentality.
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Early game collapse was an idea that the devs were working on for slowing down the early game since for many killers they lose 2-3 gens on the first chase since the start of the game is where the killer has the least pressure. They eventually dropped the idea altogether with no word on why.
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So two killers? Then make a special condition for their power uses?
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Early game collapse. The statement itself is asinine. Collapse being the ending of or the falling apart.
The concept though by the Devs was to have a time prior to gens being repairable where killers had time to "setup" or hunt survivors. For what the game is, this was a horrible idea. There are maybe one or two killers that have setup time. The rest would have a free for all without risk of lossing gens.
BHVR only mentioned this once then dropped it. But of course the community hangs onto every word an believes it to be deployed next patch.
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Say the killer is the Trapper, the killer that comes to mind with this feature. You block gens until the first chase. Gives plently of time to setup right? No, the correct response is to run into LOS of the killer and trigger a chase as soon as possible. No time to setup and gens are available.
Poor Trapper.
On the other hand a stronger killer can take their time finding the first survivor and get a quick hook before any gen progress had been made.
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Ok, even so now he has his first chase, it already improves his situation, and when you have to run close enough towards him to start a chase you are already in his web, it is not like you immediatly know where exactly he spawned either. Even if he does not get to setup 20 traps he can get down like 2-3 until they show up and then he can directly chse them into those traps.
When the strong killer gets a quick down, he beforehand gets a fast chase, and then the feature already deactivates… soooo where is the issue?
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Issue is the killer has a terror radius making them easy to locate. The strength of Trapper is to put down traps so chasing the 1st survivor you see won't go well in the long run. Remember that Trapper has to pick up their power, there's a high chance of seeing a survivor before your "web" is setup.
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It would be an improvement compared to the current state, also apparently it is debatable whether or not you should set up a web beforehand or rather start chasing immediatly, as far as I know Hens for example prefers the second idea.
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If you want to place all your traps around the hook survivor, you do you.
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Killers basically want one survivor gone before the game starts, that's why a lot tend to tunnel at 5 gens.
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You can use traps in chase what are you even talking about?
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Ok, we are talking early game here. The survivor has plenty of options besides the loop you are wasting your time trapping.
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Sure but he doesn't know which one is trapped? Unless you are on the most open map ever you will get 2-3 traps down before anybody spots you…And you don't know what the killer is at the beginning of the game, so you probably will not try to find him immediatly and risk going down within seconds.
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Typically, the unopen trap is a good indicator of a Trapper. Remember we are talking about a system where gens are locked. The only productive thing a survivor could is find the killer and start a chase so the game can begin. Finding a Trapper early means you avoid the area the Trapper was found.
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Still better than just getting gens done immediatly. I don't know how active people would be, even when running Corrupt these days some people just stealth it out entirely and don't even think about touching a generator. Also many survivors are scared of getting chased by the killer early on… So sure if everyone was playing good then yes, but since most people are really bad that is usually not what will happen.
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Given that it took months, several nerfs, a killer rework, and a new base kit mechanic to get people to stop 3 genning, this is the most abusable ######### I've ever heard of.
It would take about 20 seconds for the meta to become going afk for an hour to auto-win the match while all the gens are permanently blocked.
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damn I didn’t even think about that afk thing lol
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I literally said in the beginning it would deactivate after x amount of time… Glad you actually took the time to read that.
" Ideas that were mentioned in that context were for example all gens are blocked until a. You enter chase with a survivor b. Someone loses a health state or c. X amount of time passes."
All those conditions apply simultaniously… So it deactivates if a, b or c is (+).1 -
Technically the 1h time limit was not a thing back then, but obviously people thought about it being problematic in this context as it would have otherwise lead to games just never end.
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See comment above, the 60 min time limit on matchtime was not a thing when this idea was discussed.
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Your original does say a, b, or c. The comment I responded to only includes a or b.
At no point does 'or' mean 'and'.
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If a b or c clearly means any of them...
It is clearly meant as any of them Alternatively will deactivate the mechanic and not several of need to be the case.
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