Do any of the bard perks actually do anything beneficial?
Honest question, I've been theory crafting their use but outside of a niche SWF gen rush set up I'm at a loss as to what benefit (if any) these perks provide the survivor?
Mirror Illusion:
Killer can tell it's an illusion and ignores it, so what's the point? I sat on a gen next to someone's and stuck on it to see if the killer would hit the fake but nope. As far as I know, they don't make any noises so they're easily distinguished via both audio and visual.
So, as far as I can tell, this perk does literally nothing.
Bardic Inspiration:
15 second cast time on this perk, meaning that's 15 seconds off the gen if you did that instead. The only way that's worthwhile is if you hit 9+ great skill checks within the 60 second window upon each use of the perk (with the +2% skillcheck progression bonus). Even with a Hyperfocus build you're getting 12 skillchecks at most on a solo gen. You'll probably just barely reach this threshold if you do a gen with two people and both of you hit all the skill checks.
But then you have to realize you could also get the +1% skillcheck bonus or roll a 1 and get no benefit at all. So, chances are, unless you roll a 20, using this perk under any other circumstance is actually a loss of time and effort.
So, as far as I can tell, this perk also does literally nothing in the vast majority of its use cases.
Still Sight:
This one's weird in that if you use it for environmental auras, every other perk is better for that job (Deja Vu, Visionary, Plunderer's Instinct, Detective's Hunch, etc.).
If you use this perk for the killer aura, it's extremely niche in its uses. You're more likely to hear the terror radius before you see the aura on a gen, meaning you should be reacting before the perk even sees the killer (in which case it deactivates). You can't use this perk in a chase. You can't use this perk vs undetectable to nullify gen ambushes. The only niche uses this perk has is seeing killers from afar with Open Handed (yes, it works), or seeing killers while you are oblivious rather than them being undetectable.
So while this perk isn't completely useless, it's still niche and rather weird.
—Does anyone have any thoughts or ideas on how to make these perks work in a beneficial way other than the benefits mentioned for 'Still Sight'?
Comments
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Doesn't Bardic Inspiration affect multiple survivors at a time? You could grant the buff to two other survivors, theoretically, to make hitting the skillcheck count more likely.
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Still sight does reveal killer auras at up to 18 meters and can be combines with open handed to be 34 Meters. It doesn't work while sitting on gens though thankfully or that would be insanely OP. And Bardic Inspo affects all survivors within 16 meters.
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By the wording, Still Sight is not limited by the 18 meters for killer auras. Making it a better OoO for SWF teams.
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Theoretically? Maybe, but how often do you get two other survivors next to you on one unstarted generator at the same time?
To complete a generator without Bardic and no skillchecks would take three survivors 42.86 seconds.
To complete a generator with Bardic and no skillchecks would take 45.71 seconds.That's a 2.85 (45.71 - 42.86) second difference, which is 3.17% of a gen (2.85 / 90), meaning you would:
- Waste 3 seconds worth of time if you rolled a 1 on Bardic
- Need to hit 4 great skill checks among all survivors to break even if you get +1% bonus progression per great skill check
- Need to hit 2 great skill checks among all survivors to break even if you get +2% bonus progression per great skill check
- Need to hit 1 great skill check among all survivors to break even if you get +3% bonus progression per great skill checkOn average, you'll likely need 3 great skill checks among all three buffed survivors to break even with the perk; and more if you ever want to start getting a benefit.
The likelihood of hitting 3 great skill checks among 3 people in ~45.71 seconds is okay but not guaranteed. Even if you do get, say, 7 great skill checks between the three of you (which I'd argue is extremely optimistic in that timeframe, especially in solo queue), you just reduce that gen completion time from 45.71 seconds down to 33.11 seconds. Keep in mind that's with the +2% bonus progression buff.
Wow! Seems kind of decent then right? Not really.
Prove Thyself's gen completion time with three survivors is 35.71 seconds, but also has the benefit of not requiring any great skill checks, has no prep time, and has no duration on its effect (meaning you could all leave the gen and come back freely without recasting the perk). If you hit the +1% bonus progression roll on Bardic, you actually need 12 great skill checks among the three of you in 35 seconds to break even with Prove Thyself (that's not happening in any game).—
The numbers get worse when you don't have that ideal scenario too and only have yourself and one other survivor or do the gen solo, both of which are far more likely scenarios.
For a duo (yourself and another), you would need to hit 4 great skill checks to break even with not using Bardic, and 6 great skill checks to break even with Prove Thyself, assuming you had the +2% bonus progression buff. If you had the +1%, you would need 7 great skill checks relative to no Bardic, and 12 great skill checks compared to Prove Thyself (gl, because that's not happening in one gen).
So yeah, no matter how I look at it, you're better off not using the perk at all unless you hit the 2% or higher bonus in an ideal scenario; but even then, I'd say Prove Thyself is more reliable with a very similar timeframe.
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Thanks, but this is the one perk benefit acknowledged in the original post.
Slight correction too, it actually does work while sitting on generators (I've been testing it out in PBE). It's just a bit redundant when you have Fogwise as a solo perk that does the same thing but without a range limit, instead of needing Open Handed + Still Sight for a similar effect.
Also bardics numbers were just added in another post, it's mostly inferior to Prove Thyself and potentially worse than even just working on a gen without Bardic nor Prove Thyself (depends on your teammates).
EDIT:
Nevermind, you are correct - it does not work on generators.
I'm actually very confused, because I was absolutely seeing the killers aura in "The Game" map with a Kindred + Still Sight + Open Handed + Bond load out; but I just did it again on Borgo and it was not working. Either a bug, or I mixed up Kindred's aura reading.
In this case, I'm even more confused as to what Still Sight's benefit is now.Post edited by Beaburd on1 -
i find it surprising that near sight reveals the killer but does not reveal totems. If it revealed totems, it might be a decent perk for totem cleansing.
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I think the survivor and killer perks are all pretty safe perks, and tbh I'm fine with it. It'd be nice to have a chapter release where everyone isn't crying over the other side's toys
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Agreed. I'd use it if it revealed totems but not as it is now. Maps are increasingly barren with alot less clutter and a good enough view that I don't need to know if the killer is within 18m of me. Chances are I can see that or hear the terror radius. Plunderers is better for chests, and I'd rather bring Deja Vu or a map for gens.
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Trust me, 18 is just 2 tiles away. Its really really close. To make it work, you have to stand still when killer is ~34m away (4sec x 4 meters + 18 meters range)
Which at the exact moment TR starts, you have to stand still to see where killer is coming. 4sec is alot more valuable to make distance, or valuable Gen progress.
Stant still for 4sec also not work in chase.
Small game or Clairvoyance doesnt make you waste 4sec everytime you need to check for a totem.
Its weird that the perk sound really strong on paper, but I dont find it useful in practice.
You would rarely find a situation where all 4 survivors grouped together, unless they all able to hide and heal each other. Otherwise, 2 survivors heal a teammate is faster than 1 Bardic on 1 healer. Same to sitting on Gen with teammate is far better than 1 Bardic.
Its only useful on a lone Gen like a 2 story house in Badham. But I bet its better to sit on another Gen instead.
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yeah i'd use it as well. could be decent for overzealous build. bad perk rn.
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I'm not sure what your issue is, but we all have our own subjective opinions on what is fun.
For instance, I take great pleasure in analyzing game features, theory crafting, debating ideas, and being efficient as a player. That is where my enjoyment of any game comes from. The novelty of pulling out a lute and being silly is also fun to me, but without a tangible benefit from the perk the novelty of the meme will quickly and inevitably fade and leave it unused.
My goal with this thread is to point out the weaknesses in the perks that I observed, and gather insights into their more practical uses that I may have overlooked. Since I've yet to hear any positive arguments for them, I'm inclined to believe there are none. That's unfortunate, because I like DnD, I like these characters, and I like these perks; but if their use is just a detriment for the team, why run them? And if I know I will not be running or using them long-term, why buy them?
At this point you might be thinking I'm even sweatier and should still shut up, but I hope you can realize that this is a forum where players discuss and give feedback; and I hope you can also realize that my thoughts and opinions are just as valuable as yours, and I have every right to share and discuss them.
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