Please do somehting about people giving up on the hook for no reason

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  • MoNosEmpire
    MoNosEmpire Member Posts: 649
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    I mentioned the testing phase for the perk as it shows inflated stats directly after the nerf which is why that particular data can't really be reliable but weeks/months later can.

    I still do not agree with Alice_pbg's counter argument as she has also missed out perspective.

    Also, thanks for your eloquent response.

  • Marc_go_solo
    Marc_go_solo Member Posts: 4,907
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    Probably been said already since there are already a few pages, but the easiest way to stop hook suicides is by removing skill checks at the second stage and on the first stage making unhook attempts not count towards the hook bar progressing (making the escape percentage less as a result).

    As people also know, this won't stop someone from quitting. Players will just stay still or run to the Killer to be killed. BHVR can do more, but ultimately it's the poor attitudes of those wet-wipes which is the hardest to overcome. I'm not sure how to overcome that.

    Possible deterants could be people who stay still until a crow appears (with the exception of survivors in the dying position) are marked and start losing BP rapidly from their total, as well as XP. If they are captured by the Killer in this state, they lose all BP and XP. Even then, I reckon there are ways around this, but it's then up to players to report them as well.

  • MoNosEmpire
    MoNosEmpire Member Posts: 649
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    What's your region? For me it takes anywhere between 5 seconds and a minute.

  • Rulebreaker
    Rulebreaker Member Posts: 1,560
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    You didn't bother mentioning anything about stats (what kind, how it maters in this context, etc) though the 3 of us have been playing hot potato with the phone so we might have missed something.

    We don't particularly care about the counter argument but more of the statement. Nerf does not always equal butchered, following many definitions (including the one you provided).

    Takes a bow Buffy is a great teacher of talking about things

  • MoNosEmpire
    MoNosEmpire Member Posts: 649
    edited May 14
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    I've scrolled up once earlier and I know for a fact I've missed replies 🤣

    I believe my stats comment was in reply to your comments of:

    Its performance is satisfactory and not seeing it doesn't translate to being spoiling it completely. Special emphasis on completely as while it was nerfed from its original form, it's still very good.

    Its still used and often at that. It works fine, still can extend chases if used correct, still can be baited... We don't see it

    The stats comment was merely generally relative rather than specifically, it was more-so about how if data isn't collected over a short period of time it can be more prone to being misconstrued due to the many factors that can contribute to it, that's why I never went into further detail. Yes the same can be said for collecting data over a large period of time but it has less of a risk.

    It was relevant because we were talking about DH and it's usage; which is why I mentioned stats, that's what made the comment relevant and how it mattered.

    You have just said the following too: "Nerf does not always equal butchered" (As you said prior with Nerf=/=butchered), which I do agree with, but in this case we have differences between if DH is or isn't. Maybe it could be due to the platform differences, do you play on PC or Console?

    I know on console there is still input delay, even with my high net speed, I haven't tried DBD on PC yet (even though I own one) so maybe because of the completely different experience on there it may possibly be the sole reason we can't find common ground here.

  • Rulebreaker
    Rulebreaker Member Posts: 1,560
    edited May 14
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    Ahh I think we miss communicated our point abit. What we meant by satisfactory was that it's usable, doesn't hinder the survivor, and does it's job (to us it's "tank a hit"). We didn't include anything about stats or data as we're focused on its operation, not how well others use it or how often (as let's be honest, LOTS fall flat trying to mimic streamers and such). How often it's used doesn't fully indicate if doesn't work, more of people don't like it for some reason or another.

    We are focused on your given definition:

    to spoil something completely by performing or dealing with it very badly"

    What it seems like (an please keep in mind this is just what it seems like to us) that you are equating nerf and usage to butchered. Especially considering this line behind the definition:

    ie it has been nerfed

    We don't see common grounds due to us not thinking that DH fits in the criteria given.

  • edgarpoop
    edgarpoop Member Posts: 8,080
    edited May 14
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    I don't think trapping people in a trial they don't want to be in will help anything in the long run. Being able to quickly get out of a match is what makes DbD tolerable for many people. If you start forcing people to stick out a trial against a multi-slowdown Blight where a teammate has No Mither, or other complete wastes of time, you're going to start rapidly bleeding players. If the attitude is "that's what you signed up for, deal with it", then people are just not going to deal with it one way or the other.

  • MoNosEmpire
    MoNosEmpire Member Posts: 649
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    I believe you don't see DH fitting into the criteria given because of the following:

    Now that I completely understand what you mean by satisfactory, would it be fair to say; since you see DH as "tank a hit", you don't see any drawbacks to it regardless of any past or future nerfs done because it's still operational. Due to that, you don't quite feel that the correlation between 'nerfed' and 'butchered' would ever be applicable in this instance to each other because it will always stay as a strong perk?

    My experience with DH:

    In my games I see DH probably 1:35 games and even then I'm being generous. I'm assuming it's different for you, but that's how it is for me (Console). Just today alone I have not seen DH once, (I've seen sabo probably about 15 times today). I've escaped almost all games back to back too so MMR definitely isn't the factor. I'm on EU servers as well so you know it's sweaty regardless of the game played.

    The reason for mentioning usage:

    I knew there would be discrepancies between usage and that was expected because we all have different experiences on games regardless of what it is (iirc someone else originally mentioned usage specifically, I'd have to check the thread, I'm fairly sure I never mentioned usage in the original comment or first, if I am wrong then I shall stand corrected), so that shouldn't even be in this particular discussion and that could also be causing you confusion on your end, just the nerf and butchered comparison).

  • Rulebreaker
    Rulebreaker Member Posts: 1,560
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    Now that I completely understand what you mean by satisfactory, would it be fair to say; since you see DH as "tank a hit", you don't see any drawbacks to it regardless of any past or future nerfs done because it's still operational. Due to that, you don't quite feel that the correlation between 'nerfed' and 'butchered' would ever be applicable in this instance to each other because it will always stay as a strong perk?

    Not quite. It currently is a strong perk (to us atleast) despite the nerfs which is why we don't think its "spoiled" let alone completely as its "performing" well (in most of our matches). If nerfed enough then maybe it would fit the criteria for butchered but as it currently stands DH does not despite the nerfs. It may or may not continue to be strong but it currently is despite everything.

    In my games I see DH probably 1:35 games and even then I'm being generous. I'm assuming it's different for you, but that's how it is for me (Console). Just today alone I have not seen DH once, (I've seen sabo probably about 15 times today). I've escaped almost all games back to back too so MMR definitely isn't the factor. I'm on EU servers as well so you know it's sweaty regardless of the game played.

    While we do see DH more, we will say again that usage rate doesn't matter to us (despite the devs seeming to heavily favor using that) as thats more of an indicator of if people like to run it or not, not the reason why they run it or how it does in their hands. Though as an aside how often is the tunneling? (NA is…..prolific tonight)

  • Neaxolotl
    Neaxolotl Member Posts: 561
    edited May 15
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    It's been 2024 and almost half year, and somehow this game still has hook suicide

    Do devs like that mechanics for whatever reason? it hurts everyone and saves no one, but still exists anyway, huh

    So people actually stops playing when game has a problem, and that forces BHVR to balance it

    What's the problem really, isn't that best we can have, if that's the result we 100% should force people to stay in a match

  • Raptorrotas
    Raptorrotas Member Posts: 3,218
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    WWow. Look at all these people defending survivors not getting consequences for their ragequits.

    The devs can track if survivors havent moved for a while. They could do much more. Display afk crows in the hud. Add crows when survivors dont do objectives after 80 seconds.

    Not doing objectives, "suspiciously often failing hook skillchecks"... put them in a low prio or ragequitter queue unnanounced or show it to the other survs after the game so they can be reported.

    OOr just remove the suicide. Can be done even without removing self unhook.

    You wouldnt be forced to play, you logged in for it. You'd still be free to leave... and live with the consequences.

  • BrightWolf
    BrightWolf Member Posts: 387
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    Yep, went agsinst a Judith's Tombstone and Fragrent Tuft of Hair Myers last night. Sure we got all but one gen done, but once he popped Teir 3 it was the end of the road for all of us. None of the survivors got points, the ones who hid in lockers once they figured out what was going on stuck around for a while but Myers decided to play the waiting game, eventually we all DC'd. Even without forfeiting our points, we hardly got any while Myers got his achievement and a generous amount of points because he basically in the most boring way possible.

  • MoNosEmpire
    MoNosEmpire Member Posts: 649
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    NGL mate idk if both of our brains were fried or not last night writing the comments but my first para is exactly what you said minus the future perk nerf aspect LOL

    If nerfed enough then maybe it would fit the criteria for butchered but as it currently stands DH does not despite the nerfs. It may or may not continue to be strong but it currently is despite everything.

    I still believe perspective has to play a role in it (as mentioned above), you believe it's not classed as butchered yet then that's how you feel, I can still use it but I'm borderline for it atm but I know it's strong. At the same time I also know people who can't use it at all and define it as butchered so.

    I believe the dev's look at the most used perks because they're the most effective to play the game at that current time, then slowly balance the game around them to force players to look for alternative builds, due to that other perks suffer heavily.

    I have killers who look at me while standing at the hook then swing at the hook and then look back at me and start nodding lmaooo, you'd think they were farming by that description but no, they're just another type of demon on DBD, either you get lucky and destroy them or make a mistake and then get basement hooked 🤣

    I've not seen any tunnelling today, yet.. but I have seen 2 games back to back where both players rage quit at 5 gens, still managed to escape somehow lmao

  • MoNosEmpire
    MoNosEmpire Member Posts: 649
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    Honestly? I don't really see killing yourself on the hook as a big deal anymore. It's happened in so many instances in the past year that it honestly doesn't matter anymore. You've also got depipping removed so that's not really affected. I just see it as an opportunity to mess around with the killer or practice loops or map chases with the killer. Usually they understand as well but others just want to get into the next game, and that's completely fine.

    The whole issue with hooks is that you can't really stop people from leaving cause they can just DC anyway, it would appear to be a healthy update but at the same time it wouldn't.

    "Not doing objectives, "suspiciously often failing hook skillchecks"... put them in a low prio or ragequitter queue unnanounced or show it to the other survs after the game so they can be reported."

    Take your above statement for example, that would bring more complaints about gen rushing, sometimes killers do need a break too (even though it's a PVP game), I don't even mind doing all 5 gens if I have to as well as finding time to take a good chase and prolong the game as much as possible so the inexperienced players can get used to the game. Reporting them with a system like that also brings into question of targeted harassment and bullying, of course as adults we look past that but it can have long lasting mind altering effects on someone. The game has a maturity rating of M (17 years old) but let's be real, children of all ages play games nowadays. At the end of the day everyone wants to just have fun on the game right? If they don't enjoy it they'll always find a way to leave. The root cause of why they quit should be looked at, not punishing players further because they quit. I still believe the cooldown for DC'ing is still optimal too, it gives you time to calm down for a while and get back into the gaming mindset.

  • MoNosEmpire
    MoNosEmpire Member Posts: 649
    edited May 15
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    There's 4 pages worth of reasoning, enjoy the read lmao

    EDIT: Picture

  • Junylar
    Junylar Member Posts: 1,889
    edited May 15
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    It's funny how any discussion about survivors giving up on hook instantly turns into survivor vs killer argument, where survivors want to get devs' attention to the core issues of the game, while killer mains just disregard everything and ask devs to punish survivors more.

    The sad truth is that killers usually end up winning this contest, in the sense that their side is the one the devs side with after all. The same happened in the previous grand discussion about DC penalties, where killer mains succeeded in making the devs introduce them to the game. I'm afraid the same will happen again, and they will indeed remove the fast way out, so people will just throw the game or stay AFK and thus a new cycle will begin.

  • Raptorrotas
    Raptorrotas Member Posts: 3,218
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    Oh. Dont get me wrong, people should and currently are free to leave at any time. Nothings stopping people from pressing "leave" and letting a probably less counterproductive bot take over.

    But people should not be able to circumvent the penalty coupled with doing so. People suicide on hook because its the method of ragequitting that doesnt get punished.

    So either punish suicides or make them unable to.

    The stuff about tracking when survs do not "play the game" were quick ideas on how to deal with people finding other ways to grief once they cant ragequit for free anymore. Never claimed those to be good ideas.

  • Rulebreaker
    Rulebreaker Member Posts: 1,560
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    Perhaps, we were effectively dead and not paying to much attention. As of now we agree it's probably a perspective thing and neither is going to change their minds.

  • EQWashu
    EQWashu Member, Mod Posts: 4,671
    edited May 15
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    As comments continued to get off-topic and out of hand, despite Moderator requests to keep it civil, the thread will be closing here. As always, even if you disagree with others, or their comments or opinions, please keep posts civil and respectful. Thank you.

This discussion has been closed.