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What do you think about killer slugging for hatch?
Comments
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I never said otherwise. If Killers hate trying to find the last Survivor then they can run Whispers, Iron Maiden or pick anti-stealth Killers to play as. Just like I don’t think Killers shouldn’t be disparaged or shamed for trying to win, I don’t think Survivors should have the same happen to them for trying to survive. I have issue with people attacking the player rather than having constructive discourse about their grievances while not holding themselves to the same standards as they hold their opponents.
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The Killer will not lose if they get a 3K. You make it sound that a win is only a 4K.
And still you were saying that the Killer, who is the reason why time is wasted, is not at fault, because a Killer kills, but if a Survivor wants to survive, they are at fault.
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I think it's boring AF personally and I think the only times I've ever done it is for adept achievements. Otherwise the vast majority of the time I find hatch first anyway and win cuz door spawns usually favor killer.
I truly do not understand why people do not value their time more and go for more games instead of a potential extra kill they probably will get anyway if they don't slug like that's the craziest part to me is the survivor could be literally anywhere when you slug for the 4k but when you find hatch you know they're only gonna be one of two places making it way easier to find them. Slugging for the 4k just never made sense to me.
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The killer is only at fault as much as the hiding Survivor is. If it’s acceptable for the Survivor to hide and try to survive then it’s acceptable for the Killer to slug for the 4K.
Doesn’t matter if you consider a 3K is a win, it there is a chance for a player to get a 4K then they’re entitled to that chance, regardless of the emotions going through the slugged persons head. If you don’t think they’re entitled to that chance then you shouldn’t think the last standing Survivor is entitled to a chance to escape through the hatch, saying otherwise is a double standard.
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I'm content with 3k, unless the survivor intentionally tried to annoy me. The race for the hatch is cool, but i'll not judge killers who slug for 4k. It's part of the game.
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boring and unnecessary. You are wasting your own time as well as 2 other peoples time because you want an extra 2k bloodpoints
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My main point is that you try to victimize the person who is just trying to survive, but not the person who is prolonging the game. And even if the Killer would hook the third Survivor, they can still get their 4K. But you expect the hiding Survivor to give up willingly. That is if I would say that a Killer has to carry the last Survivor to the Hatch. Which you would point out as wrong behavior right away, yet you want the Survivor to stop trying to survive.
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I don't tend to slug for the 4k unless I'm making the biggest comeback of all time (although tbh I'd still probably give hatch), or just got finished crushing a team acting toxic. I did funnily enough have a match recently where I slugged a Mikhaela to find a Leon that had sent me three annoying messages over Xbox, and she ended up 4%ing when I went back for her so I gave her gate.
Post edited by ArkInk on0 -
Honestly its pretty degrading to the gameplay loop. If I am the last survivor and the killer is slugging for the 4k I just vault a window until they find me. Waiting for 4 minutes hiding in lockers and walking around in circles is just a waste of time to me. I also value the slugs time on the ground, so rather than make them bleed out for 4 minutes I figure get myself and them out of the game asap. After 2 are dead and 1 is downed the killer already won the game by bhvr's and the majority of the communities definition, so if I get hatch I am not like omg I won and out played the killer! I do enjoy the 1v1 for the hatch, but if the killer needs the 4k to be happy, I would rather just give it to them and go on to the next game. The 2nd to last survivor should be able to dc without penalty/keep their BP from the trial if they want to. That would solve the problem entirely, if the last survivor and killer want to play the waiting game they can with the bot on the ground, the slug can go on to the next game, and if you don't want to hide in a locker for 4 minutes as the last remaining survivor you have the agency to just vault a window until the killer kills you.
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I wonder how different these discussions would be if the hatch was guaranteed to not spawn near either player, instead of having a chance of just appearing at either of their feet.
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My point was that you and everyone else who complains about slugging for the 4k are just trying to criminalize the Killer for fulfilling their objective. Just because you think 3k is enough doesn’t mean the Killer player has to and is mean, sweaty or a bully if they choose to slug for an attempt at the 4k.
While yes, the Killer is prolonging the game by slugging, the hiding Survivor is also prolonging the game by hiding. Sure, the Killer player has more agency due to their role, but it doesn’t change the fact that if waiting for the slug to die out is so miserable, they could come out and have the match end.And no, I don’t think that Survivors should stop trying to survive. They should do whatever they can to win within the confines of the games mechanics and rules set by the Devs. They shouldn’t be disparaged for it just like I don’t think Killer players should be disparaged for playing for a 4k.
People are free to complain about game mechanics and ask the Devs to improve it, such as a faster bleed out timer in this scenario or even a concede option, but they have no right to try and shame Killers for playing the game how they want to as long as they follow the rules.10 -
Honestly… seems the game doesn't reward how many Gens are left and hooks gotten my the Killer… getting the 4K is the thing that the Killer's do
There's no one to blame… players make decions throughout the game
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It would be better than the current system where everyone has their time wasted because one person's ego just can not handle one person POTENTIALLY escaping.
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So what you basicly say with many others in the thread - killers should always have to let out the last survivors. What should be the next? Free escape at 4 gens?
The hatch mechanic already stupid, but nobody can say a better one. It is still better then the old one with the standoffs. But getting out by pure luck is not really fun for the killer. And now you even want to make it much easier? Seriously what are you people want, a button to push anytime to win?
If these situation so bad, then bring unbreak or something. I am stunned that try to get 4k is sweaty, but fight for the last gen from survivors are not.
But in one thing I agree. After a certain point survivors should be ablespeed up their bleed out because it can be boring. But in the worst case it is 4 minutes.
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well if i slugg for the 4k its for tome challenges. I dont care otherwise. Though with the mori change, i might need to slugg for the 4k more.
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This is the other one what I do not understand. Why the killer wasting their time? Why not the 4th survivor who not come and give the hook to the killer? They try to get out even tho the other one have to bleed out. It is not sweaty? Then why it is from the killer to try to find the 4th and get the 4k?
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One of the problems created by the hatch mechanic. Which creates more problems than it solves.
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you can kill them. Hook the 3rd person and go for the last one instead of leaving on to bleedout and wasting their time.
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“And no, hatch should not open to give the last standing Survivor an easy escape. Their team failed at completing their objectives and wasting the killers time which the game provides ample opportunity to do, they don’t need more hand holding to win.”
Hatch isn’t a win.
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Then there would be no problem with removing it. From now on once the killer downs the second to last Survivor, the game should just end with the final Survivor getting moried.
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not a big deal one way or the other. Whenever it happens to me I just tab out and watch some youtube, Which I'd be doing in queue/loading screens anyway. I do the same thing when the survivors wanna drag out the game sitting at the gates.
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You’re asking the killer to play the least smart way. Why would he roll the end game to rng of whether or not he beats you for a hatch when he can try to prevent that rng entirely? You could be working on a gen, going for the save, or even walk up and give yourself to him if it’s such a waste of time. I think the person waiting out the person on the ground to bleed out is nearly just as guilty as the killer. No better.
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It's worth trying,but forcing it Is just pathetic.
My personal record is having a rat Kate and a Spirit work together for 15 minutes trying to find me, the only survivor to have done anything.
If you try and slug foe the 4k and waste everybody's time, I will make sure you are bored to tears. JUST END IT!!!
Because you know what? I've tried just "giving up" before, and I was rewarded by still having my time wasted. If you want to kill by any means necessary, I'll survive by any means necessary.
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"against general killer nerfs" they just nerfed every meta perk on killer in the PTB.
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It only nerfed those who used those perks, I'm talking about general mechanics that cover all killers, like hatch.
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True, I'd also argue thats untrue considering basekit changes to counter unhealthy strategies in recent years (basekit BT anti facecamp)
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It's not fun to play against but the hatch is a pretty poorly designed mechanic, if we're honest. Not only does it go to the person who survived the longest with no requirements of hook stages, chase time, gen progress or anything, which promotes people to throw their team under the bus but it also doesn't matter if it's closed by the killer because that survivor can simply wait at an exit gate and have a third chance (somtimes a guarantee) to escape.
I have seen my fair share of survivors that waited for the killer to close the hatch so that they would get the exit gate and every time it happens, it's a reminder that killers should slug, if they want any chance at a 4k.
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Because the killer has already won at this point and still has a chance (a better one at that) at finding the hatch before the last Survivor since he can cover more ground. Meanwhile the Survivor is left with basically 1 option, stealth it out for 4 minutes since who realistically wants to give up?
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If the 4th survivor hasn't been hooked yet I will slug to get at least that. Hooking every survivor at least once is needed for Emblem progress.
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I think it's fine. From a survivor perspective, you have two options. You can go for the pick-up and try to keep going, or you can go for the gen and let the slugged survivor die or stew on the ground for a bit. If they die before you get the gen, then you have the hatch as a potential consolation prize.
From a killer perspective, you can either choose to defend the slugged player or you can choose to patrol the gens (or in the case of a bad 3-gen situation, both) and try to find the remaining player.
Both have potentially annoying situations to deal with. And frankly, I think 99% of the time, the 4th survivor is just hiding in a locker, which is far more boring (both as a survivor and as a killer) than anything else discussed in this thread.0 -
I'm not opposed to slugging or getting slugged for playing killer or survivor, but I would rather it be done quickly on the killer's part. Just feels bad to be wandering around aimlessly for a few minutes without aura reading perks trying to find the last survivor.
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Boring for both sides, idk why they bother to do it
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It's silly. Give the 2nd last survivor a bleed out option and give the Killer the same BP and pips as a 4K regardless if the last survivor gets hatch or not if there are gens left.
If there are gens left and the hatch is open the Killer has decisively won. There's no need for someone to spend up to 4 minutes on the ground since the Killer has already won and there's no need for the Killer to not get the BP and pips reflecting that they won.
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Are we going to pretend that giving up at 5 gens is the same as giving up after the game is over? This is disingenuous to be making fun of people when you know it is not the same thing.
Post edited by JocelynAwakens on4 -
Just like survivors saving their last buddy on endgame you have to deal with it.
Most killers don't do it because it's really boring to look up around the map to find the last survivor.
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At the end of the day, it's down to what the Killer wants to do, and it's perfectly reasonable that, should they want the 4K, they go and search for that fourth and leave the third down. I think "sweaty" is used far too much for somethings.
Personally, unless I knew where the fourth Survivor is and they weren't far away, I wouldn't pursue them and just kill the 3rd, because I'd rather get to the next trial, considering this one won already. However, I don't believe someone wanting the 4K is a bad thing, and if they played fine up to that point, I feel they're justified.
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As you can see in this thread, some people are so invested in Us vs Them that they lack the ability to see things objectively.
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Usually, at least in soloQ, the slug just starts crawling to the remaining survivor, thus giving away his position. In SWF, of course, it will never happen.
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Those are newer players mostly, I rarely see badly intentioned survivors do that. I mean, most of the time slugged surivors without hope just tab out the game.
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Lucky you then! I constantly get these kind of teammates if I am the last one standing, and sometimes the killer picks them up and lets them get out of their grip, after which the survivor will plainly run to me, literally leading the killer. The killer then sometimes gives him the hatch for ratting me out. But maybe it's a regional thing, and I just happen to be in the most toxic region.
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It unfortunately does seem that way.
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Hatch is a win for the Survivor that escaped. Just because you don’t agree doesn’t make my ideas bad or your takes right.
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It's a waste of time for everyone involved.
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This reminds me of Sid Meier's observation: "given the opportunity, players will optimize the fun out of video games."
In this scenario, the desire to try and maximize an arbitrary number leads to one player having no agency, one player standing behind a rock picking up and dropping an item, and the other running around looking for that rock. It's hard to believe anyone is having fun in that scenario.
The answer is for devs to never give those options in the first place, but BHVR even this long into development seems to keep hoping that players will play in a certain way for 'fun' despite the evidence of what actually happens.
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I personally think people have the right to do it if they want since it is just the game… but I also think it is boring.
It really is not fun being Bleedout for a full 4-minutes while my teammate hides, I dont like having my time wasted and with this I feel like my time is definitely being wasted. I wish I could just bleed myself out faster if this happens.
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The fact that survivors cannot surrender is the issue. If the slugged survivor was able to give up accepting death instead of being left on the floor I would see no issue with this. I understand the 4th survivor wanting to have a chance at hatch because its their chance to redeem their own game. I don't really understand the need for a 4th kill outside of achievement but lets say they just want it, its fine. Both of them have options to end the game quicker or try for more of a win from their perspective. But lets take a look at the slug. They are stuck in the game for 4 minutes with no way out. If BHVR gave them the option to DC without penalty I really wouldn't have an issue with this.
Most of the behavior that people consider toxic or problematic with DBD is trying to win at the expense of someone elses game/time. Camping/Tunnelling single out a single person and stops them from being able to play. Slugging for the 4k. Max combo gen rushing. Head-on Vigil 4 man combo. The reason all of these suck isnt because they are the most effective way to win necessarily, they suck because at least one person is placed in a scenario where the game isnt playable in an enjoyable way.
BHVR mentions they don't want the game to be too competitive but leaving in this pain point leads to exactly that. Give the slug a chance to play a new game without penalty and I see this problem as being null, the 4th survivor can out hide the killer and the killer can hunt for the 4th survivor noone is trapped. Heck just remove the DC penalty after a certain period of time in the match, ie after 7 minutes in addition to "leave match" have a button called "surrender to the entity" still get replaced with a bot but dont be stuck in an unenjoyable game.
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It has to be kept as long as game ask for 4k, basically necessity for 4k in everything is hurting the game
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I just had two games in a row of this, so I'm bringing Exponential for the rest of today lol maybe they'll decide to hook me when I keep picking myself up and being a PITA
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True, couldn't be me wasting that time ever. BUT, the survivors could also just accept the worst outcome every game, get FAR more value in terms of fun(one last chase) and not potentially hold the game hostage.
Again I don't have the care as there is no value in getting the 4k but why blame someone for going all the way? How is that ego? It makes less sense from survivor when survivors do it and BOTH sides are in the same predicament.
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Kinda interesting to still see people saying "hatch is not a win" while the game gives points to the survivor who escapes (less than escaping through the gates, but still) and denies the sacrifice points the killer would have.
The game treats hatch escape as a win.
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