So they're just going to keep making anti-loop killers?
It's been the trend.
Unknown
Chucky
Xeno
Singularity
Even with skull merchant you break the pallets if you vault with a claw trap.
So now the new killer will be able to not only block the pallet drops- but also summon skulls that hit you?
Is the whole plan that we all become hardcore 360 spinners as survivor mains? Or that won't work because of the ping difference in 99% of games. So what are survivors supposed to do now?
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so you want killers to be horrible in chase? You want killers to do poorly at their own objective? Do you even play killer?
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So the only way that killers can kill anyone is by ignoring the one thing survivors have to survive (Pallets)? Do you even play survivor?
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You're looking way too narrow. This has been the trend since Deathslinger, released in 2020. So many killers since him have been nearly entirely focused on anti-loop, as opposed to other things. This is nothing new and honestly when we don't get an anti-loop no mobility killer it's a shocker.
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People still complain when we get killers who aren't good at chase. Skull Merchant was heavily complained about and people wanted the devs to make her a more chase oriented killer.
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Sometimes I'd wonder if something like Hag was released in today's age.
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I mean would you rather an anti-loop killer, which makes for exciting chases or snooze killers focused around slowing down gens?
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Yeah, thats literally the meta. So we get both apparently.
Anyway, more us vs them plz, Brightened and Basch :)
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I don't see how thats "us vs them" when I'm in favor of reduced slowdown but better chase killers
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Devs genuinely cannot make just an m1 killer anymore if they for example made killer with idk an axe he has no power just a regular m1 killer, Nobody would buy him or play against cause it would just be boring on both sides
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I'm not sure I see your point. The game loop is all about the chase. Do you prefer ranged, stealth, or gimped killers?
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This may be off topic but: What kind of killer would you like. Details to preferably.
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I'd rather mobility and traversal focused killers with chase focused perks and slowdown gets nuked from low earth orbit I won't lie but I know that's beyond wishful thinking
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To be fair if they released a new killer who had no anti-loop, they'd probably be bottom tier. The current game just isn't really made with 'm1' killers in mind anymore.
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May I remind you of the last time they tried to do something different? Skull Merchant wasn't exactly a success. Neither was release Sadako to survivors because killers adapted and started playing in a different, less chase oriented way.
Every killer has to have some form of anti loop. After 8 years, we can say that much. If a killer doesn't have that, then they either become incredibly weak or they need something else to make up for it, which so far has only backfired.
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Anything that nukes slowdown and makes chases more interesting i'm in favor of, i think most survivors agree that slowdown is awful and killers don't wanna have to use slowdown
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name a popular killer without antiloop
also all of those killers have counterplay to their antiloop except chucky who is getting nerfed anyway
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Us vs them wasn't aimed at you. Apologies.
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There are killers with anti-loop type mechanics that are still viable. Huntress is a good example of this. If you mess up when you're looping a pallet, she will get you. If she mind games you, she will get you.
What is not good anti-loop mechanics, to name a few?
Survivors forced to break the pallet by vaulting without a perk.
AOE splash attacks that don't matter if you're around a wall or not.
The killer avoiding any struggle with the pallet at all by vaulting it themselves, but even then, legion does it and it's fine.0 -
That's fair. An anti-loop mechanic is much different than completely ignoring the loop though. It shows skill when you actually have to do the mechanic well versus all the killers they've been putting out when it comes to looping.
Think of every single killer.
Trapper puts a trap down in front of a loop… you're blocked. You can still take the time to go to another loop if necessary. Good mechanic.
Huntress can hit you with a hatchet. You can still continue to run forward and mind game. Good mechanic.I'm not saying that all the anti-loop mechanics are bad, but they're making killers with unavoidable anti-loop mechanics.
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Anti loop is power. Slowdown is perks.
The most powerful killer: Nurse, totally ignore loops. Can stack 4 slowdowns.
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"Even with skull merchant you break the pallets if you vault with a claw trap."
Skull Merchant doesn't do this anymore13 -
I think Anti-Loop like Nemesis is fine. He can still animation trap for a free hit. But it takes three hits and the counterplay feels fair.
Wesker's is pretty decent too up to a point.
Ranged killers, Xenomorph, SM, Knight, Artist, etc are all dreadfully boring to play vs imo.
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You either have a killer who is strong at loops, or a killer who is awful at loops. There is no in between.
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Well, almost, this is one of the reasons why m1 killers sucks mostly
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Sadako was something else. The community's feedback was, that they didn't like her, so I guess we dug our own hole?
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Unknown's UVX is not hard to dodge and the killer has a very short window to even get a hit with it, so that's anything but an unavoidable anti-loop mechanic.
Xeno's tail is hard to dodge but that's why he has the turrets so survivors can use them in order to counter his anti-loop or at least slow him down in a chase.
Chucky's getting nerfed so he can have more reliable counterplay.
And Singularity ... You're seriously complaining about Singularity ? Girl bfr.
These killers only have unavoidable anti-loop when you're too lazy to learn their counterplay.
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Singularity and Unkown have quite a bit of counterplay though. Anti-Loop killers are completely fine as long as they offer up interesting counterplay. Killers like Skull Merchant or Knight are the big problem, where the only real counterplay you have is holding w, without anything interesting happening..
And the same goes for Vecna, none of his spells are uncounterable, he actually has a good amount of counterplay for survivors. Normally when a killer releases without anti-loop they aren't that strong.
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So no 3 gen, no antiloop, no teleporting, no insta-downs, no moris, no eliminating early, no defending hooks, we have a never ending stream of complaints just basically all on the same topic.
If the killer can kill you by any means then its somehow broken or boring.
Seems the end goal is to remove the dead from dead by daylight.
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The only one of the killers you listed that I would say is unavoidable is Xeno. Chucky as well but he is losing his free-hit scamper so he'll be easier to avoid soon anyway.
Singularity comes down to the mind games of both sides. His anti-loop is basically a slower, harder to use, less powerful Huntress mind game with a built in counter play with EMPs. He is in no way unavoidable at loops. If anything he's too avoidable.
Unknown you can dodge pretty easily, especially if you don't hug walls super tight. They also have a very short time frame to actually injure you if you are looking at them.
Skull Merchant's claw traps don't break pallets anymore, not even as an add on as far as I know.
Vecna's antiloop is very counterable right now (but that could change). Flight of the Damned can't hit crouching survivors and Mage Hand slows him so much you can just run off and you probably made more distance than if he didn't use it. Both are also on a very long cool down (I think it's like 60 seconds?).
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this new killer can still run full gen slowdown build to slow down gens and still have a tremondous chase potential. How fun is that?
Chases aren’t that exciting anymore and guess why? Because the fun part, mindgames are gone. Now it’s all about luck and the killer getting questionable hits over pallets and windows with not much counterplay. This new killer was way too much chase power and on top of that he can even fly to travel the map? This is hilarious, but also very sad.If they make the game unfun to play for survivors, it’s no wonder there are insane amounts of DCs and people giving up on hooks. I personally cannot play survivor at all anymore because 1/10 games do i actually have fun and a decent chance of winning. I switched to playing only killers like plague and slinger, because it gives a fair chance for both me and survivors to win, although i still enjoy other games much more than dbd. It’s sad because this used to be my favorite game
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Crouching completely stops Vecnas projectile attack, and the pallet hold is only 4 seconds which is easy to outlast.
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There's antiloop perks and slowdown powers too so... this is just false.
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I personally think the healthier design instead of anti loop is a killer with good map mobility and a built in game slow down. You can swap some of this for stealth as well.
This allows them to win more with macro play and allowing the survivors to have their longer chases without it costing them the entire game.
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I doubt it'll be much of a problem with his long cooldown's on spells. You can crouch to avoid the skulls, the hand lasts for only a second or two, so i would just keep running the loop if the pallet hasn't dropped yet because picking up the dropped pallet with the hand blocks your vault so probably the stronger side of that spell. You can stun his fly spell. Plenty counter play as well as the magical items.
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Vecna is easy to loop people just need to get good and I know that's harsh but it's reality, he has to slow down when blocking that pallet and you can just w over to the next structure and literally go back and forth and duck under the skulls he also has to slow down to use those, if you're a survivor that already loops more than one tile at a time and interconnects loops then vecna is a piece of cake and honestly could use a buff or two in some areas
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We allready had that with Sadako 2.0 and it ended that Survivors still complained about her so she got reworked again (nerfed).
She was the ONLY killer to put A tier that had bad chase power.
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The only one who ignored pallets is nurse. Do you even play dbd?
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Do you know why?
Because every time they made killers like legion, plague, old freddy, pig, sadako, pinhead (box), skull merchant (pre rework), twins, etc? Survivors complained. Because these were killers where you couldn't just hold m1 on a gen the whole time. You had to use your brain, and think about how to actually counter them. Survivors complained about killers who had macro based powers, so now you get micro based ones. And over time they slowly have gutted those killers to just be shadows of their former self, and either terrible (like freddy) or nerfed any macro playstyle they had so all that is left is the micro (skull merchant, pinhead) And then there are perks, like old hex ruin + undying among many others.
Anytime anything exists in the game, that makes it so survivors can't just hold m1 and shift + w to counter it, survivors complain about it.
You are getting exactly what you all complained about and asked for.
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Becomming a real handspinner
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While I don't agree with OP on vecna there is a way to have both and I'll provide an example,
If I'm against a huntress her skill matters in loops and even if she's right there for a free hatchet hit she can still miss because the player input is important
If I'm against a pyramid head and I get zoned at a window or pallet the players skill no longer matters in some scenarios because you can't miss unless it's in the open for the survivor to have movement to dodge the attack
Neither one of these killers is by any means OP but by design in my opinion huntress is better because skill expression means more and one person could be terrible with her and someone else be a total legend with her due to skill alone and not a cheese ability and I think that's more of the mindset OP has regarding killers who can cheese their ability for a hit instead of the skill being important.
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But what you stated about PH is exactly true with huntress. You can dodge PH just as well as you can dodge huntress. The killer can also cancel and go for an M1 the same way. I'd bet the cooldown is probably similar to before you can attack.
You round the corner at shack, for example, and the survivor is waiting, you hold the hatchet, you hold the PH, if they vault the window, you get a hit, if they don't, they walk to the pallet, if they drop the pallet, you get a hit, if they don't you keep going.
The "counterplay" there is in the mindgame of "are they going to vault/drop the pallet, or are they not" There is nothing wrong with that kind of mindgame.
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But if I'm hitting a window you can still miss with the hatchet if you just aim in the direction with pyramid head you hit its not a skill based input in the same sense, do I dislike these killers No I don't have an issue but it's a fact you don't have to have near the skill level to be good with pyramid head like you do with huntress because input matters more for huntress her skill ceiling is higher I guess is what I'm getting at
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I don't know if this is entirely relevant to the thread, but Skull Merchant's claw trap hasn't broken pallets since her rework.
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Not true, PP Head is a much better pallet/ window zoner because he moves at 110% when holding his power compared to Hunty who moves at 77% (33% slower)
You can not cancel a hatchet into an M1 as the cancellation penalty is 1.25 seconds before you can M1 and 2 entire seconds before you are back to 110. Also PP heads attack goes through walls and can not be crouch teched. It takes far more skill for Hunty to land a hatchet at vaults than PP Head. She can do it from further away yes but if she misses a single time by you baiting the window it’s a free escape.
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If they release a basic M1 killer it's not gonna sell well unless it's very cool because people want to win
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Antiloop killers would be fine if they stopped changing or adding maps that have so many unsafe pallets.
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Because looping is extremely strong, killer MUST have antiloop, otherwise they need extreme slowdown or convoluted mechanics which no survivor likes
current dbd just doesn't work with antiloop, even worse than slowdown I bet
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M1 killers are outdated at this point, that's the reason why most of recently released killers have antiloop or anything that help in chase.
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Maybe it's just personal preference, but I disagree. Huntress is much easier to land window shots than Pyramid Head is due to his heavily restricted camera movement. If the survivor makes a last second dodge it's much easier to correct with Huntress than PH.
Not to say it's difficult for Pyramid Head to land a shot at a window/pallet vault, just that I think Huntress is easier to do so and even if she was harder she's still can land those shots really easily and I don't think either are really that skilful in this scenario.
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The only Killer that ignores Pallets is Nurse. She does not break them and does not care if in the chase a pallet gets dropped. The four you mentiond cant ignore pallets, and if you want prove. Ask yourself where do you run while in chase with on of them and why dont you instandly go down (I hope).
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