What do you think about killer slugging for hatch?

But if it is counted as "void" or "null", why is the survivor getting points? Why is the killer not getting points, same as the survivor?

That is something i do not understand. If it is "void" then one of two things should happen:

• The survivor gets escape points, the killer gets the same points
• The survivor does not get any points, the killer does not either

If the hatch is rewarding the survivor with lot of points (again, i know that 2500 are much less than escaping through the gates, but is still a lot) and the killer does get nothing, then the hatch totally counts as an escape for the survivor.

I actually agree that should be a real "null", so either remove the survivor points or give the killer the same points. After all hatch is purely "RNG" unless some offerings are in place, so i think it makes sense.

Also, fun fact, its RNG for both sides but survivor gets 2500 points for finding it (and escaping of course) but the killer gets a mere 250 for finding it (and closing it), so the reward for the RNG clearly favors survivor. It is clearly counting as a escape for the game.

The 2v1 situation with generators left is always akward. Survivors hate the 4K slug and they want to got next and not laying on the ground for 4minutes or hide on the edge of the map for four minutes. It's boring, annoying, and kinda disrespectful by wasting the time of all. The killer, on the side, wants the 4K to get the pip, archive done, or wants it (same when survivors want sometimes the 4 escape). There is also the situation where both survivors hide forever, and this is also boring, annoying, and disrespectful.

In my opinion, we need a surrender opinion with which one survivor can die instantly to give the other one the hatch - the one survivor "asks" the other one if they can give up to give the other one the hatch and if this other survivor agrees, the surrender survivor dies. The killer gets the points and everything from the surrender survivor and it would end the game faster. I think something like this would make situations like these healthier.

We can say those are not really risks the risk is like 1% killer actually lose because of them. Bleedout or sacrifice is still kill. If they pick up now you actually can get both. Unbreakable most likely buys little bit time then you can continue and even they use it when you sacrifice the other you likely can still get them. Rarely anyone use that perk.

What is anactual risk in 2vs1 is if they pick up, heal and manage to hide and they just stay hidden until you find them that can waste incredible amount of time. But other that that these are only risks to consider when it's endgame.

A bleed out is not the same as a sacrifice if the killer is trying to pip or complete a challenge.

And as you said, there’s a risk of the Survivors picking themselves up and hiding and wasting even more time. There’s also the risk that the Survivors finish the gens if there’s only one or two left. Small risks are still risks.

Anyways, as I mentioned before, my point is that Killer Players shouldn’t be vilified or disparaged for playing the game using means the devs allowed. If people have problems with a mechanic or gameplay, they’re free to bring it up to the devs constructively and not attack the player.

I would say the situations may be different but the feeling is some what the same. Which is giving up because the match now feels hopeless. Hatch is really the only comeback mechanic survivors have. It's also probably part of the reason that DC's or hook suicides don't go higher than they already are. It's the only last hope survivors have in the game.

The beginning of the game is different in that if the match feels hopeless, and there are more than 2 alive, then getting hatch feels less achievable. Watching 2 teammates go down in the first 30 seconds of a match, or running the killer for 45 seconds while not seeing a single gen get touched, also can cause a match to feel hopeless.

The biggest difference between beginning and end is playing out a full match, to at least have the hope of hatch. Then seeing the killer take away that only hope by slugging. Makes it feel worse. When people encounter the latter enough, why not just end it at the start?

Me and my friends call that "title matching" because the killer's playing like they're about to win a championship belt lol. A lot of people do it for no reason on casual games. When I'm playing killer I don't bother unless the last guy was an annoying flashlight goblin.

See I kind of have a different view on it. Often times the first 60 seconds to 2 minutes completely dictates how the game goes. At least in my experience. That being said, I've had amazing comeback games as survivor, not in a long time, but it has happened. Nothing is ever going to make solo queue teammates do gens or anything else for that matter though. Doesn't matter how the match goes.

That's also why the hatch being a last chance of hope doesn't just happen when 2 survivors are left. It can feel like the only option of escape shortly after the match starts.

As far as killers go, they do have a last chance effort, camping/tunneling. Even if the match feels hopeless there is always an option there to try. It may not pan out or it may lead to a 4k. Whereas the survivors option seems to depend on how the killer chooses to play it at the end. The survivor slugged on the ground has it worse of all, unable to do anything but crawl around.

I wouldn't know how to make a skill based mechanic for comebacks as survivor. It most likely would be as unfun as the killers choice to try and camp/tunnel. Id like to see killers have a different option as well. Maybe a way for both sides just to steer off course, forget the objective for a moment, but do something that could possibly slow the game down a bit afterward. Or even reset a small portion of progress. But then that would have to be balanced out somehow so that it couldn't be used to stomp the other side lol.

Personally, I don't care about the hatch mechanic one way or another. Was just stating how giving up at the start or end of a match could often be because of the same feeling. That is my opinion of course.

Cringeworthy.

Also kinda minor thing but still something i did notice. When survivors escape (or win, call it as you want) they are more prone to say "gg" rather than when they die (or lose), and im only counting the ones who stay in the post-game chat after dying of course, not the ones who leave to start another game.

Kinda curious, but when survivor gets hatch they also tend to say "gg" most of the time, same as when they escape. As i said just a minor observation but still interesting.

So yeah, i'm pretty sure that the people who think that is not a win for them are just a vocal minority here. Most of the people in-game seem to think of it as an actual win.

It's just weird to me that in other games when the enemy is not taking the chance to close the game and take the win you have a chance for a comeback, but for some reason in this game if the killer wants to just wander off to find the hatch or teabag for the entire bleedout timer they kind of… can? And there's nothing you can do about it? Not even a surrender to finish the match and leave with your dignity. And some players are okay with it, which is baffling to me.

Like, I got teabagged by a Ghostface for the entirety of my bleedout timer, grabbed me at the last tick, hooked me, AND THEN apologized (with an xD, of course) in the end game chat. I just had to sit there until the timer ran out and people really defend that as being peak gameplay or something.

Or when killers wander off and I crawl away then they realize they lost me and have to wait for the entire timer and then I'm the one getting blamed for wasting people's time. Bud just left to close the hatch and break a couple of pallets and people agree I'm the bad guy in this situation? Surely the killers should be the ones doing their job instead of letting me bleed out for a couple extra points?

Why am I not allowed to keep fighting when my oponent gets cocky? I shouldn't be the one getting punished because the enemy doesn't feel like closing the game.

This would never work in soloQ, since 2v1 you describe is actually 1v1v1, and both survivors will want to be the one who escapes. They should just make it impossible to escape alone, or open the hatch with 2 survivors in game as soon as one of them enters the dying state.

If the last survivor is in sight or know location otherwise, fair game. It may actually take the killer less time for themselves to just go after and down the 4th than it would to find hatch, close it and then to the little tango with the exit gates. Slugging for the 4K when they have no idea where the survivors are, kinda rude. I get you want your 4K but the other survivor shouldn't have to wait up to 4 minuets doing nothing for this to happen however this is an issue with the game first and foremost. The game should give the survivor in this situation some way to give up and move on or the "optimal" play for the killer shouldn't have to involve forcing a survivor into 4 minuets of inaction in a match they've already lost (optimal in this context being optimising rewards/gains from an individual match).

Bleedout very unlilely denies pip if you did well on other emblems. Which is very unlikely if it's 2vs1 and gens still left. Though im not sure if red grade requires now 4K to +2 pip then there is chance it can lower your score. But steam still count bleedouts to your kill total so it's still kill. That survivor died and didn't escape.

Bleedout really only hurt killer if he is obsessed about his sacrifice total like me. Xbox don't count bleedouts to kill total but it does not count mories either. So yes then bleedout is gonna suck so then it best to avoid slugging in that situation unless you know where both survivors are and that only time when I slug and few times it had lead to bleedouts.

That's why I have wanted deerstalker basekit for killer in that situation and bleedout button or unbreakable for survivors if they're slugged for extended time in that situation. So that only if killer plays well he gets the 4K and not by bleeding out the other survivor 4 minutes. If killer gets 2 quick down he deserves that 4K and survivor should not be able to hide.

Only once when I have slugged survivors have managed to do last gen so I consider that risk so minimal that it's not real risk. Most of the time in that situation there are at least 2 gens left so survivor finishing gens should not happen.

Killer player should not expect survivors to thank him for playing most boring way possible. Slugging cost incredible amount of time for both sides yes killer could played probably another match in that time it can potentially cost. Now I mean the situation where killer goes his way go search whole map to get both survivors.

If you know where both survivors are even see the other when you downed other what else is killer supposed to than try to down both is that even slugging? Because in that situation it feels like that's just doing your objective.

Now bleeding out someone 4 minutes is not the objective while trying to desperately search the other survivor. You can do that but it's just boring and it is scummy way to play. I try to avoid to do that as killer I know how much it sucks and I don't want to either waste my own time.

I only mostly do it when I want adept or challenge or after bad matches and yeah then I do whatever it takes. Or when I want to kill specific survivor but that's when I let the slug escape but most of time I just try to search the survivor I wanna kill. Most of the time that is because I only let female survivors escape or the other was toxic to me.

I do hope devs do something about it because like I said it's boring and wastes time. Something to make it more bearable at least that bleedout button. Now if it happens to me I just leave and go do something else but I don't think that is what everyone should do? Now good thing is slugging in 2vs1 is not very common it does not happen every game maybe every 1/5 or rarer.

So most killers also find it boring and they just take 3K. Now usually killer does find hatch first so slugging is not even neccessary even those killer who bleedout other survivor 4 minutes often find the hatch first and still get the 4K.

When I'm on killer myself, I almost never do it. Searching for a last survivor that is only trying to hide is much more boring than racing them for the hatch/playing for gates after closing it. There is at least some tension and excitement in the latter scenario, and it usually ends faster. And I regularly give the last survivor hatch anyway. Exceptions exist however, such as when the survivors were going out of their way to try and be annoying, BMing or hiding all match or the like. Then I sometimes if still rarely will try everything in my power to make sure the last person dies as well.

On survivor, instead of hiding when the killer is slugging the second-to-last survivor, I will often simply reveal my position and go for a chase or play aggressively to pick up the other survivor. I might still survive until the other person bleeds out, then having a chance to get hatch regardless. Or we might actually get gens done. Both of those scenarios are unlikely, but in either case, I just do it because having a chase is more engaging than trying to hide. Exceptions being things like a killer that went out of their way to be obnoxious, so as to not give them the satisfaction or knowing that they would hump me for 4 minutes if I gave them the opportunity to.

I do think unless challenges are in effect, it takes a particularly boring or petty person to slug for the 4k, especially in matches where they won decisively against what was clearly lesser opposition. I feel the same way about the last survivor hiding, but to a lesser extent because they have less agency over the situation, and they are in a lost spot hoping for a lucky escape and not playing to "win more" when already in a winning position.

The 2v1 and 1v1 endgame scenarios could still be tangibly improved upon such that they don't yield these unfortunate situations that lead to slugging, hiding, stalling, hatch stand-offs, unwinnable positions, and so on.

"They"...

Nice tribalism.

Both sides want to win. Both sides want the best possible outcome.

As @Huge_Bush already mentioned: if the killer camps the last survivor in end game, the gates are open and all survivors are still alive, why do they try to safe the fourth almost every time?

3 escapes is a win for the survivor team and a loss for the killer.

The only difference between both scenarios is, that if the killer tries to secure a 4k, the survivor input is pretty unfun whereas the situation of the survivors trying to get the 4man out is usually less boring.

This means, that it ultimately comes down to one side feeling entitled to not be slugged. If the hunt for the final survivor would be more interesting and less stale, I don't think there would be so many complains.

No. Disagree. It is definitely possible for survivors to get all 4 out against a variety of killers that camp if done correctly. There are situations, Bubba for example, where it is not possible but against a ton of others you can the 4man out.

I dont know how you gopt to your 70% when it is literally completely random where the hatch spawns if no offering is in play. It could spawn at the survivors- or the killers feet or across the map. No consistency whatsoever.

You also forgot one important aspect that relates to this. Consistency. If the killer wants a consistent chance at getting the 4k, like for their adept as an example, they do not want to leave their chance up to luck. They want the most consistent chance of success. Sadly this means slugging for the 4k.

I never siad, that the killer is entitled to 4k or the survivor being entitled to escape.

I don't say is not possible but it's hard if the survivor is hooked other side of the map. You need killer to make mistakes too and need to be swf. Solos in this situation just leave maybe one goes to make trade and killer gets then both... In the end saving in endgame benefit killer quite often too.

My roughly estimate is 70% time killer does find hatch consistently before survivor. Killer moves 115% speed and many can teleport with power for example which gives better chance. That's about how often I find it before survivor and sometimes I find the survivor searching hatch and down them.

Well adept is different situation but it's rare reason to slug for 4K. I haven't seen in while anyone even adepting but most of the slugging happen because killer feel they need 4K. Even the chance is very good still get 4K if they don't.

I really don't think it should be a thing. It's not really a question of who "deserves" a kill or escape, and more of a question of game flow.

It drags the game out for four unnecessary minutes, where nothing is really getting done and no gameplay is being had. It's boring for both parties involved and not even really worth it for the killer bloodpoint wise.

I think some form of base anti-slug mechanic should become active when two survivors remain. Adepts could potentially be refactored to ignore Hatch escapes as well.

i MUST deny them the satisfaction of tbagging me on hatch

TLDR: hatch keeps players playing the match even when winning is unlikely, circumventing it just makes players give up early or intentionally punish killers by wasting time and vice versa

I totally disagree with this. What happens in most of my games is that when only two of them are alive and is impossible to win by repairing gens, both just hide and try to get the other one found and killed first so they can get hatch.

So i do think it would totally be the same if no hatch was involved, but at least it would not be RNG.

That would be all well and good if the hatch was guaranteed to spawn away from both remaining players, but it can spawn right at either of their feet, ruining the dynamic. Can't breathe new life into a game if it arbitrarily picks a winner instantly as it spawns in