Is "superhuman hearing" cheating?

Options
supersonic853
supersonic853 Member Posts: 5,403
edited May 17 in General Discussions

I got a new Turtle Beach headset for my playstation account and noticed it had this mode. Its supposed to highten footsteps and lower other louder sounds i guess? Kinda like a equalizer i think but for console. Obviously it comes from the headset itself so i don't think it'd be bannable but thought id ask. It sounds so scuffed though when i use it. Spirit would have a field day with it though probably.

From the Turtle Beach website:
"Activate Turtle Beach’s exclusive Superhuman Hearing sound setting on specially equipped Turtle Beach and ROCCAT gaming headsets and gain the advantage by being able to hear subtle yet game-changing sounds you might otherwise miss. Enemy footsteps sneaking-up for the stealth kill, other players reloading their weapon just before an ambush, and enemy vehicles off in the distance approaching with reinforcements are vital pieces of audio-based intelligence, informing split-second, life-or-death decisions that elevate great gamers above everybody else. When you have a gaming headset with Superhuman Hearing, you not only have phenomenal audio—you have the competitive edge."

«1

Comments

  • Archol123
    Archol123 Member Posts: 4,637
    Options

    Cheating involves being against the rules, so it is not cheating.

  • Archol123
    Archol123 Member Posts: 4,637
    Options

    It is not a third party software but hardware... And since I don't think there are hardware limitations for the game this is probably not cheating.

  • Archol123
    Archol123 Member Posts: 4,637
    Options

    I think it is Completely fine to use if you want to, just the benefit of newer hardware... Higher fps and stuff also gives you advantages, but I don't see people complaining about that either.

  • caligraph
    caligraph Member Posts: 359
    Options

    Technically probably yes but theres no way for bhvr to detect it and they dont ban for EQ so go wild.

  • Raconteurminator
    Raconteurminator Member Posts: 618
    Options

    You missed the point. It's not classed as cheating by Behaviour because it would be meaningless, not because it's not cheating. It's impossible to prove someone is doing it, it's impossible to ban people for it, it's unenforceable. All it would do is create a window for people to clog the system with reports that Behaviour wouldn't be able to act upon.

    Using a third-party device to gain a significant, unintended advantage over other players is quite clearly cheating.

  • dooteranopia
    dooteranopia Member Posts: 7
    Options

    It's a gray area, especially since it's limited to certain hardware. EQ is a thing though too, and everyone has access to that (I don't know how much better the Turtle Beach one is, if at all). As Raconteurminator said though, trying to ban it would be pointless, since there's no way to detect that you're using it. You could also argue that Reshade and crosshairs are cheating, but both are allowed. Reshade especially though is something that I don't think should ever be banned, even though it could be. Even with colorblind mode on (I have deuteranopia - red/green colorblindness), it's basically impossible for me to see the red stain.

  • Huge_Bush
    Huge_Bush Member Posts: 5,119
    Options

    time to buy some new headphones and play Spirit

  • Archol123
    Archol123 Member Posts: 4,637
    Options

    I mean that is a point as well, but it is still not cheating since there are no restrictions to hardware… How would it be cheating then?

  • Spare_Them_Mori_Me
    Spare_Them_Mori_Me Member Posts: 1,328
    edited May 17
    Options

    You're using headphones that almost all the other players are also using. I dont see a problem.

    Not to mention, this can be countered with perks. Iron will, That Ripley 'no footsteps' perk, etc.

    Just like with the sun coming through a window on your screen, you just need to equip lightborn and boom, no more sun glare on your monitor.

    You people need to think outside the trial.

  • MechWarrior3
    MechWarrior3 Member Posts: 1,614
    Options

    I am on the Ps5. I use the wireless headset designed for the Ps5. It’s about $99. Is it good? Yes!


    However I have another headset that is a razor. $140. Is it a bit better? Yes! I can hear smaller details better like “breathing” I couldn’t otherwise hear 👂 no matter how loud my sound was turned up.


    Im sure to a degree this is intentional by BHVR which makes sense. They don’t want you to be able to hear every little detail going on.


  • Raconteurminator
    Raconteurminator Member Posts: 618
    Options

    Using something outside the scope of the game to gain an unfair advantage is quite clearly cheating. Behaviour simply chooses to avoid addressing certain things because it would achieve nothing but flood the system with reports that would go nowhere. To ban something that you know, I know, and they know is unverifiable and unenforceable would only make them look ridiculous. To make it a reportable offence when you know, I know, and they know that 100% of those reports would have to be discarded would only further the ridiculousness.

    To any reasonable person, it's still cheating. It just can't be proven and is easier for Behaviour to ignore it.

  • ArkInk
    ArkInk Member Posts: 571
    Options

    It isn't cheating by BHVR'S rules because there's no way they'd be able to enforce it, but let's be real, this is an unfair advantage unlocked by paying for an outside piece of tech. Software or Hardware, it's cheating. You could do it if you want ig, but please don't.

  • I_Cant_Loop
    I_Cant_Loop Member Posts: 261
    edited May 17
    Options

    It's not cheating any more than coordinating with your friends on comms is cheating. I understand that the devs have specifically said that using comms is allowed, but this is pretty new and I expect that, if asked, they would say the same thing about this technology because there's no way for them to prevent its use, just like there's no way to prevent comms from being used.

  • Mr_K
    Mr_K Member Posts: 9,130
    Options

    No it's not cheating. Really though, its a gimmick more tune towards FPS shooters with less environmental sounds. DBD has chase music on blast and no equalizer is going to be able to just quite down that part. The best you can get out of sonething like that is hearing breathing outside of chase. And guess what? Any decent headset will give you that.

  • Archol123
    Archol123 Member Posts: 4,637
    Options

    Is it then cheating to have a 120 hz monitor for a higher framerate because it clearly gives you an advantage over people with a lower framerate? I don't think it is clearly cheating, it is completely fine to use any hardware you want to use.

  • Archol123
    Archol123 Member Posts: 4,637
    Options

    What exactly makes it unfair? Does not everyone have the option to just buy certain hardware? Also what is the standard hardware that is not unfair, how good or bad is my headset allowed to be to not give me an unfair advantage?

  • Yharwick
    Yharwick Member Posts: 521
    Options

    It's not cheating you just have a high quality headset, the idea that anyone would call this cheating is absurd to me.

    Not everyone is going to get this reference but it's like saying the New York Yankees cheat because they spend more on payroll than any other club to get the best results possible.

    If BHVR didn't want people hearing those sounds they wouldn't have coded them into the game.

  • The_Krapper
    The_Krapper Member Posts: 3,220
    Options

    Is it cheating? I guess it depends on what you yourself view as cheating, so many content creators use sound equalizers like that it's not really fair to consider it a cheat but I do believe personally that you gain an unfair advantage with the EQ just for the simple fact those sounds aren't meant to be canceled out so you can hear better it's there for a reason

  • Archol123
    Archol123 Member Posts: 4,637
    Options

    Unfair compared to who? I don't think it is unfair... If you spend more money on hardware your game will run better compared to some 10 year old potatoe pc... Does that give you an advantage? Yes! Is it unfair? No why would it?

  • Thusly_Boned
    Thusly_Boned Member Posts: 2,822
    Options

    Cheating is kind of a subjective/relative term for most people, but I tend to think this, like most things people debate about, falls more into the "competitive advantage" area than any sort of blatant cheating (assuming the headset works as advertised).

    Personally I think anything that isn't stock standard (even stuff like changing the brightness/contrast) is to some degree unfair unless everyone can do it. But it's DBD, where "balance" has no meaning, so it's certainly not anything I would even think much about.

  • Toonster
    Toonster Member Posts: 14
    Options

    I don't think its cheating. I play some fighting games where refresh rate is SUPER important. Some top players can afford 500hz+ monitors. I sure can't. Does it give them an advantage? Yes. Is it "cheating?" No.

    If you would call having a good headset cheating, you would have to be equal with everything else. Having a mouse is agreed by most to be much better than a controller. Having good internet also makes a massive difference. Going from 60ms to 10ms is actually crazy for window and pallet hits. So where do we draw the line exactly?

  • Archol123
    Archol123 Member Posts: 4,637
    Options

    I mean everyone can do it at each specific platform should be the key… You cannot really tell people not to use things just because other platforms are unable to do that… Otherwise I probably am not allowed to go beyond 30/60 fps because console, or most likely the switch cannot do that?

  • Agaki
    Agaki Unconfirmed, Member Posts: 61
    Options

    Using reshade is more cheating than using an equipment. The only thing that is considered cheating is what would trigger EAC, however, a lot of people would say the same for using voice chat (me included)

  • ArkInk
    ArkInk Member Posts: 571
    Options

    Poor people.This game costs fifteen dollars and is on sale often, I've been getting by mostly on Iri shards since they were introduced and before that I just didn't have the fun stuff.

    Your headset is allowed to be as good as you want, so long as it doesn't have a built in secondary mode specifically designed to give you a mechanical advantage in the videogame, such as described in the post. Hell, I'm even cool with the headset in the post being used so long as the secondary mode is off, since then it isn't functioning in a way specifically designed to give them an advantage.

    So, that's my stance. I know yours, I doubt you'll change mine, do you want split hairs more or are we done here? Cheating is ultimately defined by dishonesty and unfairness, something that varies depending on each person's view, so don't be surprised that there is no general consensus.

  • Beaburd
    Beaburd Member Posts: 954
    Options

    You are going to get a mixed bag of answers here because people tend to confuse the question 'is this cheating?' with 'is this type of cheating right or wrong?'

    Anything that provides you with an advantage over your competition that is not accessible, known to, and consented to by the average player can be construed as cheating. And yes, that includes your headset's additional features, since it goes above and beyond the expectations and accessibility of the average player to heighten your strengths and mitigate your weaknesses.

    That said, I sincerely doubt anyone would punish you or even know you use it, so it's really just up to your personal morals. If you are uncomfortable knowing you paid for an advantage over your opponents, don't use it; likewise, if you are okay with knowing you paid for an advantage over your opponents, go wild. In this case, I don't think there's any tangible consequences you have to worry about unless the developers specifically state otherwise.

  • Archol123
    Archol123 Member Posts: 4,637
    Options

    My only issue here is that cheating always has a negative connotation, and the headset as well as the mode are obviously legal and allowed to be used in games, since that is the purpose of the feature. But by stretching the definition of cheating to be as far fetched as to reach out to allowed programs, hardware and what not just feels like people that have that stuff are getting shamed into not using it just because others are not happy with what is allowed and what is not.

    But sure I guess there is no point in further explanations on this topic. Guess we will see what the future brings and if this features makes it a basekit thing in the next generation of headsets.

  • Archol123
    Archol123 Member Posts: 4,637
    Options

    Why not? Both give you an advantage by using them? Both are hardware and do exactly what they are supposed to do, where exactly is the difference?

  • Neaxolotl
    Neaxolotl Member Posts: 994
    Options

    Of course it is, because game is obviously balanced with sounds

    And let's be real, balancing games around the sound is stupid design

  • ArkInk
    ArkInk Member Posts: 571
    Options

    Right, because I care how a multibillion dollar corporation like Microsoft or multimillion dollar corporation like BHVR defines cheating. Going further, do I care how my countries congress defines cheating? Definitely not. I won't bother getting political, but don't tell me to let someone else define the subjective in my viewpoint.

  • Thusly_Boned
    Thusly_Boned Member Posts: 2,822
    edited May 17
    Options

    I'm not saying anything can or should be done about it, but people playing on PC just have more at their disposal than people on other platforms. And people on PS5/Series X have an advantage over Switch players. And there's nothing to be done for it, but that doesn't mean it's fair.

    It is what it is, and that's one of the many reasons (primary being that it is an asym with heavy RNG dependence) why DBD is simply not playing field on which you can measure skill on a PvP basis.

    I'm not going to make a fuss unless it's outright hacking. There's no point.

    But if I'm on PC playing at 120fps with shaders and and EQ headset, I'm probably gonna refrain from talking trash, or taking my "wins" too seriously.

  • Nazzzak
    Nazzzak Member Posts: 4,995
    Options

    Probably but what can you do? Technology is only going to get better and better, you either keep up or fall behind. If it gives you an advantage, well, so be it.

  • HerInfernalMajesty
    HerInfernalMajesty Member Posts: 1,292
    Options

    It’s the same as having a turbo controller for Mario Party.

  • Riski
    Riski Member Posts: 208
    Options

    Cheating in the sense that you'll be banned or it's against the rules, no. It's undetectible so BHVR couldn't enforce it if they thought it was cheating and it's not a modification of the game or the game files. BHVR describes hacking (what this would be closest to) as "Using 3rd party software or other tools to gain any kind of unfair advantage that wasn’t intended by the game, except if they have been whitelisted by us" however the filter in your headset would be hardware not software so there is a good case BHVR doesn't consider this hacking and there is nothing else in the rules that would mean it's cheating.

    Is it cheating in the sense that it is an advantage other players have, yes but no? Having a good headset, or other good hardware, is an advantage reguardless of if it comes with filters or not so where to draw the line with external factors such as video/sound filter and good hardware is completely arbitary. Is it ok? Up to you. If you personally feel like it's cheap or unfair to use it then don't, and you wouldn't be alone in thinking that, but there are no rules saying you can't use it.

  • Raconteurminator
    Raconteurminator Member Posts: 618
    Options

    If a game is capable of being run at 120hz, then all that monitor is doing is allowing you to avail yourself fully of what the game is capable of. You're using your hardware to play the game in a way that was intended. A refresh rate of 120hz isn't going to do a damn thing if a game couldn't run beyond 60 hz, and any attempts to mod that frame rate to be higher A) Has nothing to do with the monitor (because frame interpolation isn't handled by the monitor), and B) Would risk causing significant issues, including latency.

    The game does not come with audio sliders to raise or reduce the prominence of certain sounds, it does not come with hardware to filter sounds. If you own the best set of headphones in the world, you might be able to pick up more subtle sounds, but that is not the same as having specific hardware or software to manipulate the levels of those sounds for an advantage. That is not an advantage specific to headphones, it's an advantage afforded by specific headphones with specific hardware and software that allows you to interact with the game audio in an unintended way.

    You know this, you're not dumb. You're just arguing for the sake of arguing at this point.

  • The_Yosh
    The_Yosh Member Posts: 150
    Options

    Nah, you are stressing too much, and potentially self-reporting haha. I have the same thing on my A50s. In fact I can download and change user profiles on my A50s as well. Currently they are set to flat, and I haven't been bothered to change them for DBD, but I could.

  • Sava18
    Sava18 Member Posts: 2,437
    Options

    It's not an unfair advantage if everyone has reasonable access to it. It's why something like nvidia filters are fine because ALOT of monitors are capable of something similar these days.

    Sure it's not enforceable but again everyone has some access to it.

    In a game much more competitive and FAR more sound based like siege the devs have known about it and even encouraged it forever ago. It's not even really third party as all devs should know what to expect from the software of major hardware companies.

  • Archol123
    Archol123 Member Posts: 4,637
    Options

    So basically because the game is poorly optimized and does not have certain options that any other reasonable game has makes this different? ^^

  • Raconteurminator
    Raconteurminator Member Posts: 618
    Options

    That's clearly not what I said or even remotely implied. If you wish to infer that, you're welcome to do so, but you've clearly given up on the pretence of having an actual discussion at this point.

    We're not talking about Siege, we're talking about Dead by Daylight. One is an FPS, one is an asymmetrical game — a genre notoriously hard to balance — that relies heavily upon its sound design for part of that balancing. What another dev, that created another game in another genre, chooses to do is up to them.

    "Knowing what to expect" doesn't suddenly make specific brands of headphones with filtering hardware, that Behaviour has no involvement with, first-party. They're still third-party, and they're still allowing you to manipulate the game audio in unintended ways.

  • Archol123
    Archol123 Member Posts: 4,637
    edited May 18
    Options

    What you basically said is that the 120 hz option is implied by the game, as that option is actually available. So the monitor does nothing more then do what the game already allows... And other stuff like sound sliders are not which is why the hardware that enables it does more... Yeah I understood that. However the game is so poorly optimized that it lacks many basic settings... It took years for the game to reimplement anti aliasing as an option, we don't have advanced graphics settings and still need to change stuff outside of the game in text documents instead of having the option in game. Which is why I said to make the difference be what the game does or does not enable is pretty much meaningless because the game is so poorly optimized that basic customisation like a proper advanced graphics or sound menu is missing along other things. The options menu of this game is missing stuff that was standard like 15 years ago and that is why I said the difference only exists because the game is poorly optimized... I shortened the whole thing down so I don't have to type this whole wall of text, because I thought it was common knowledge that the options and ways to customize via in game options are just horrid.

    On a side note I believe the option to play the game with 120 hz was only rather recently added via in game options, I think before that you had to adjust your framerate via the game data folders or maybe it wasn't even possible at all... Another point why I said the game is poorly optimized.

  • Sava18
    Sava18 Member Posts: 2,437
    Options

    ummmm, let me reiterate, siege is infinitely more meaningful in regards to sound. You bringing up assym is just an excuse.

    Bhvr didn't choose anything as I said it's up to them to somewhat adapt the major hardware devs not the otherway around. They know in advance.

    These headset programs existed consistently before dbd, it's not on the players at all. Considering it legit cheating is just trying to make yourself feel better or you got slighted in some other game.

    Something everyone has access to easily and isn't against the rules is not cheating. Just accept it, you have very weak arguments here. Your entire first paragraph is just straight up wrong besides the very last sentence and it's not even a debate, it's wild you even typed that out.

  • Raconteurminator
    Raconteurminator Member Posts: 618
    Options

    Let me reiterate; I am not, was not, and continue to not talk about another game in another genre in a topic that is about Dead By Daylight. They're two different games, of two (completely) different genres, that by their very nature require different types of balancing - that's not an excuse, that's completely relevant, whether you choose to hand-wave that or not.

    We're not talking about Siege, we're talking about Dead by Daylight. One is an FPS, one is an asymmetrical game — a genre notoriously hard to balance — that relies heavily upon its sound design for part of that balancing. 

    This is the first paragraph of my response to you, minus the one apparently correct part. According to you, this is a topic about Rainbow Six Siege, Siege is not an FPS and Dead By Daylight is not an asymmetrical game. It's also apparently a very easy genre to balance, despite all the evidence to the contrary. What's wild is that you came back to a topic that was pretty much dead to, "Nuh, u r actually wrong" and start an argument out of a normal conversation with such a ridiculous statement that it makes me question whether or not you're even reading things. That paragraph was 55 words long and you didn't read 38 of them.

    If this conversation hadn't reached its conclusion before, it has now. I don't care for your unearned arrogance, your projection and your condescension. I don't care either for whatever backtracking or scrabbling you'll do in response to this post to make yourself look correct, so don't bother responding because I won't waste my time reading it, nor will I give you any further attention.

  • Sava18
    Sava18 Member Posts: 2,437
    Options

    I'm genuinely not going to read past your self quote. DBD actually relies far less on sound for it's balancing and you keep bringing it up. Siege was an example, a far more extreme example, that's far more competitive and sound means far more. That's the point, my entire example supercedes your own because it simply takes everything your talking about and pushes it up to 11 compared to dbd. DBD doesn't rely more on sound and it's most definitely not balanced around it more with the immense variance on killer and survivor sounds.

    It's like you don't know how to directly address and keep deflecting into an easier to handle conversation for yourself. Even your last paragraph where you just claim I'm arrogant and condescending is deflecting. Every time you replied to archol it was the same thing, nobody can have a debate with you if you push all their arguments away, ignore every real thing they are saying and continue on with your day.

    Your argument has been "it's an assym" this entire time and that's not an argument, it's an excuse lol. I don't need attention. Your entire conversation with archol is a testament to your inability to actually civilly debate with someone.

  • JPLongstreet
    JPLongstreet Member Posts: 5,520
    Options

    Maybe we set the starting point at a Switch (or like me on the couch across the room with the Xbox connected to an ancient TV) and go from there? From a certain point of view anything above 30 frames can feel like cheating! 🤪😂

  • SkeletalElite
    SkeletalElite Member Posts: 2,682
    Options

    It's just a sound equalizer so no, it's not cheating.

  • Archol123
    Archol123 Member Posts: 4,637
    Options

    Well ^^ guess we just need to stick to advantages gained that are not based on chosen platform ^^ Otherwise Pc players cannot use mouse and keyboard anymore ;)