Why haven't solo Q survivors gotten what a 4 man SWF has?
I don't understand the double standards. Why is it an issue that survivors want to communicate in game whether it's by VC or a chat wheel that DBD Mobile has? But nobody has an issue with people using Voice chat? 4 MAN SWF knows everyone loadout, solo players don't. They got more or less basekit kindred too, and bond roughly. This is why solo survivors are upset, we are pushed to the side, yet SWF has everything solo players want. DBD mobile has the best QOL for solo survivors, so I don't understand why don't they just follow the template and add it to the base game. It's just not fair. I am tired that people have advantages because using third party programs and are playing with friends. I don't know anything about DBd Mobile 100% but I know they got chat wheels and we can see loadouts. I am ranting because they got no problem with VC yet are not adding any form of communications in the game which is hypocritical. Like you can't have issues adding communications in the game yet allow third party comms. I can't tell if this is supposed to be a party game or not since it seems like you need to be in a party in order to play.
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Well first of all according to a community manager the community does not want voice chat :) At least that's what I got told when the topic was brought up.
As for the difference between mobile and our version, apparently the two communites that play those games are not the same, which is why the mobile version has some features ours does not have, at least that's what I got told by a community manager :)
Well on a more serious note I have not clue what all those excuses are for, obviously there is an information gap and obviously it needs to be closed so players don't feel divided into groups of players with better or worse tools, but well can we really expect fast changes on a game that is 8 years old and now has come up with another game mode and does not have basic features in settings or many other things that were considered standard a decade ago.
I guess another thing would probably be that the development of the game might be bottlenecked by the spaghetti code or how the game is coded in general, so maybe we are lucky and progress will happen because of the engin upgrade? Well one can hope for a miracle ^^
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A lot people REALLY don't want voice chat, myself included, by they definitely need to add more info. Pings about where the killer is, where they're heading, info on what perks teammates are bringing, that sort of stuff needs to be added so that killer can be balanced against survivors as a whole. Pretty much any info a 4-man SWF can give each other needs to be given to solo players so there isn't as big of a power gap like now.
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I mean, you can just not use it… No need to not implement it… If you don't want to use voice chat in any other game nobody is forcing you to do so, but being against it despite other people wanting it is a bit off. That's basically like saying "I don't want x so you cannot have x either". Not saying it should be the only thing to close the information gap, but I think it would be a good thing to have in addition to man more (chat wheel, text chat, ping system and so on).
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If the game has built in voice chat, besides needing a robust moderator team for it (which won't happen with BHVR), the game would have to be balanced around it being used effectively by all four survivors in a match, which means survivors not using it as such would be at a huge disadvantage, which would make solo queue worse.
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But nobody has an issue with people using Voice chat?
What now? Nobody? Where you pull that from?
Lets say solos did have voice chat. It would still be less than what SWFs have. Why? Because SWFs are players that want to play with each other. They played games with each other normally and know how each other refer to things like callouts. Even with communication you will still have disorganization.
Now how about the bad side. One, every streamer out there will want a way to mute. Can't risk someone saying gamer words on stream. Normal players will want this too. Who wants to hear a kid screaming in your ear? Not to meantion the amount of harassment accusation that will popup because of it.
Overall just a bad idea for this game.
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We won't get Voice Chat because BHVR can't police it and protect the softshells from the hurt words.
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I have no clue why they haven't made it possible for survivors to see eachothers anti face camp progress.. Like, how are survivors supposed to know if a teammate is being proxy camped? They should add that feature, and also let survivors see eachothers perks. That way, it brings solo queue more in line with SWF's, without giving SWF's any benefit. I don't understand why solo queue players are being neglected this much. Yes, SWF's are annoying and broken, which is why we need to give solo queue survivors features that ONLY benefits solos. But for some reason, it feels like BHVR are balancing the game between SWF's and killers who face these guys.
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This... All of this... Lol.
I get told I suck in nearly every game I play, that has in game voice, and usually end up turning it off. It's nice to be able to come to DBD and not have to hear it an entire match.
Give me the option to turn it off and I might not care. Depends on how many rude comments I get in end game chat for not using the voice chat when all they had to do was use the pre game chat and tell me. In which case I would probably be on my phone anyway and not looking at that either.
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The mobile version of the game was recoded from the ground up, by an entirely separate team. That's why it has different cool things that the base game does not.
They've given a couple of reasons over the years why they aren't interested in adding in comms. Things like language barriers and the prevalence of comms already available on the various platforms. Imo they just don't want the moderation nightmare as others have said.
However I agree survs should be able to see loadouts of their allies so they can act more intelligently, with or without comms. And yeah an appropriate chat wheel would help as well.
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Ahhh, SWFs - the only thing that never got touched since they added the option to play with friends, know their loadouts, skilllevel and having potential extra communication. And even after adding MMR we're still trying to balance around them without acknowledging the big elephant in the room which is SWFs. How do ppl not realize no matter how you buff solos, a equal skilled team of SWFs will always do better - plus is getting all "solo buffs" on top. And i don't even think nerfing SWFs is a good idea either, because when i get matched with them as a solo but their skilllevel is lower for expample, i kinda get punished even more.
So the only solution i see is either to finally get rid of MMR or different balance for each MMR bracket. Not gonna happen, but hey - BHVR always knows better. And as long there are enough killers and survivors playing and paying, they don't need to change ANYTHING.
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Quite simply, if I wanted voice chat then I would join a SWF. If I don't want voice chat and prefer to pkay solo, then I play solo.
Voice chat in general for all would be hellish, with people yelling, playing music, being dicks and such. And opting out wouldn't be an optiom, because if the other 3 want VC and I don't, I'm pretty sure they'll grief me because I prefer to play without VC.
The solution for communication is to join a SWF.
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Currently roughly half the players play in some form of a swf... Is that taken into account while balancing? Also having additional moderators for voice chat... Seriously? That's your problem? That you don't think they would hire staff to take care of that?
Players not using any of the communication tools at all would be at a disadvantage, which is why I said there should be several to use... In the end it is your choice to use it or not and if that gives you a disadvantage that is your choice. But basically every multi-player game has a voice chat and people usually don't complain that they are "forced" to use it or be at a disadvantage... It is really not a big deal... There are so many things in this game that put you at a disadvantage... Running suboptimal perks, being on console/not so good PC and what not but, but as with those things as well players have a choice whether or not they want that, currently they don't, they just can't communicate with each other.
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Basically every voice chat in every game can be muted, that is the worst argument to be made to assume that we will get an implementation without basic functionality... Also games usually have the option to mute specific players, it is really not a big deal.
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In other games you also don't get told that, and since voice chat would not be the only way of communication you can still rely on text or ping.
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Thats a little bit ridiculous to assume people will grief you over that. You may have the option to do that, but others don't because they maybe don't have people to play with.
You can just turn the option off and griefing is still a reportable offense, so I really don't think this is as big of an issue as you make it out to be.
The solution to bridge the gap between solo and swf is to be in a swf... Great yeah that will solve everything...
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Oh, no, no. It's actually the other way around.
See, I'm no psychiatrist, but one of my friends does study psychology. And if what I understood of what little he has told me is correct (and I'm able to translate and express it clearly in English), the inability to express an emotional reaction is closer to needing some serious therapy than if someone throws a verbal attack at you and it makes you feel bad.
So, if someone throws an attack at you online, as social creatures that we are, common reactions are usually things like frustration, defusal (as in, trying to make the situation stop, even if the attack fails to hit you) or… I don't know the word in English, but it's kind of like "counter offensive", as in, you attack them back to protect yourself or others from further harm.
Frustration and counter offensives are unhealthy and can cause harmful outbursts to self and others when left unchecked, but they are still natural reactions. These should be understood and controlled so they lead to healthier outputs (like defusal) for a more harmonious coexistence with your fellow peers.
However, if any attack, online or not, is met with absolute indifference, it's recommended to seek professional help because there can be a number of issues repressing the person's feelings (not necessarily illnesses, it could be social elements like an unhealthy parental figure inserting into their children the idea that feeling frustration or sadness equates to weakness)
Don't take this as professional advice because I'm merely writing in my words, and translated into English, what someone else said off the top of my head and applying it to an online environment, but that is the rough idea of what I understood. I'm sure there's some books in English that can delve deeper into this, and there's always the option of finding a professional opinion on the matter, but the idea should be roughly the same.
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Not ridiculous at all. You've seen and read how randoms act to others and how someone will deliberately make the game for another a real problem. There's an "Unsportsmanlike" report button for a reason.
As for the final paragraph, that is the only way if someone cares that much. SoloQ is in a decent enough place as is. I have far more trials with others who play fine enough than those who kill themselves on hook. If you want to close the gap with SWF, the answer isn't in changing game mechanics; it's in changing gamer attitudes.
Voice chat should stay with SWF. If someone wants that option, there are plenty looking for other teams.
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No offense but to have an im motional response to any little thing someone that does not know at all or any nonsense that gets thrown at your seems like you don't have control over your emotions... You simply should not get bothered by that, why even? It lacks an logical basis... If you care what trash talkers on the internet say about you is the far bigger issue, because why would you even? They don't know you and have no basis for their assumption...
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The gap is an information gap... You cannot close that by changing your attitude ^^
With that argument you can undermine any form of communication, because it can always result in abuse, which is why there are not only rules that forbid such Behaviour but also mute and report button to be able to prevent them immediately by muting the person or longer lasting by reporting them.
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I mean they shouldn't ban SWFs or arbitrarily nerf SWFs so the only thing they can do is try and buff solo queue to be closer to SWFs level. Obviously it will never be on that level but there's easy stuff they can add that will help make the gap narrower.
SWFs make up a huge portion of people who play this game, and removing the ability to play with friends, or punishing people for playing with their friends by adding any sort of "people in a group together take longer to do gens etc" will lead to the death of DBD.
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There's plenty of information out there now. We know what people are doing and we know when someone is being chased. There are perks for other things, so I don't need anything else, and if I did I would find a swf.
Also, the gap isn't just information. It is attitude as well. In a SWF with friends they don't give up because they are downed in 10 seconds. The issues I have with playing SoloQ are nearly always the attitude and childishness of some other Survivors. I can't say information is anywhere up there now.
We're not going to agree on this and I respect your stance, but back to the main point there's nothing that would convince me voice comms in Solo is needed nor wanted, nor would it give me significantly more info than I already feel is necessary.
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The day universal in-game voice chat or w/e gets implemented is honestly the day I stop playing. SoloQ, the last stats I saw, still outnumbers the amount of SWFs, especially four-person SWF which is the smallest minority of survivors. I don't want a game catering to the playstyle of the smallest percentage of players.
In my experience as a killer, highly coordinated SWF are annoying but they are a small percentage of matches and they aren't impossible to play against, though sometimes much harder. But universal comms between survivors would make so many more matches so much more annoying and would definitely decrease the degree of fun for playing killer.
Survivor side, comms would take a huge part of the challenge and fun out of the match. It would render a huge amount of perks obsolete/significantly nerfed, which is going to lead to less variety in the META/people's builds which is going to make the game repetitive and dull. Honestly I think even the "new" survivor HUD that shows what other survivors are doing is a little too detailed. I'd rather it just show that a survivor is interacting with something but not specifying what that thing is, but it's not hugely problematic that it gives more details. Just feels easier than I'd like it too but I know I'm a much smaller minority on that.
And I generally just don't even want to talk to people when I'm playing. I like sending a gg follow up message or whatever, but for me personally, I have a demanding and sometimes mentally exhausting job and I often have days where the majority is spent talking with people or public speaking. I play games to decompress from that and feeling pressure to be in communication with people during gameplay would ruin that experience. Plus as a woman trying to communicate in game can and often (not always, but often) gets really cringe and really icky really fast.
While you can say people could just have the option to use comms so they can avoid it if they don't want to, killers are going to need buffs to help combat the increased coordination among survivors which will become a huge disadvantage to people not using the comms. Or you can end up in a team that wants to punish you for refusing to use comms so they intentionally leave you dying and petty ######### like that.
If people really want to adjust something as relates to SWF, SWFs should get some kind of nerf or killers get some kind of bonus for going against them. But no in-game comms has been the standard since the game's inception and many of us who have been plying this way for years, we don't want to see such a drastic change to the game we know and play and love (or sometimes, love to hate or hate to love lol) that fundamentally alters it so much.
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once again the same lame excuses for arguments:
"solo q is horrible, we need to buff it without buffing swf"
but when you bring up that tc/vc would equalize things, they respond with this
"it's not gonna be enough to matter and would be worse for the game overall" just false
"there's gonna be toxicity"' name a 2024 multiplayer game that has vc but not a mute option alongside. this is also the same community that finds literal gameplay mechanics and SKINS toxic.
"ruins the immersion" there's no immersion to be had past 20 hours.
"language barriers" regions are separated and most people in the world know enough english, this is maybe a problem in 1/100 games.
"moderation nightmare" bhvr is not a small company anymore
"swf will always be better anyway" so lets not bother making soloq experience enjoyable. sound logic.
sometimes i wonder if the dissenters are actually dedicated killer mains in disguise.
here's why they dont take the only real way to equalize swf and solo q. it's because it would expose how stupidly balanced this game is and how useless a vast amount of perks and certain killer aspects are while also making certain perks OP. they would need to change that much in ONE patch, and bhvr simply isn't up to that task.
they can't admit that the game isn't balanced. they've placed an inaccurate MMR system so killers are satisfied with free 10 wins and 2 losses. meanwhile soloq players are told to accept this 60% average kill rate because it's the norm when you can't trust your teammates and it makes the rare wins more satisfying.
just sad how the same people that want a better gameplay experience will make nonsense arguments against it. the community has no right to complain about this glaring balance issue that has been here since forever if they can't accept the one real solution.
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I mean, this is a nit-picky point to make but here I am anyway lol, but the issue of SWF vs SoloQ hasn't been here since forever, people used to not have the option to go into a trial already matched up with their friends.
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We have not too much information about where people are or what resources they used. Sure you could use perks for additional information, but swf already has that information and does not get more out of using those perks additional, which is the whole point... It is not about you personally but that this gap exists generally.
Sure it is not just information, but a big part is information. Sure you won't as likely have those people in your swf as well, but maybe some other people do? I guess even people like that have friends.
It would give more information compared to what you currently have... And that's the whole point, if you don't want that information that's fine, you are not forced to use it.
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I might be wrong, but can't you kinda just...mute peoples voice chat in games where that mechanic exists?
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That's part of the issue. I don't want the text either. In game quick chat or emotes I'm fine with. Other than that I would want to be able to turn off all forms of communication so as not to be harassed about anything.
You are correct that I don't, usually, get told off for not using voice chat in other games. But DBD is a different beast. I never once received a comment on my steam profile until I started playing DBD. The majority of those were negative and caused me to private everything about my profile. That's also not an issue I had with other games.
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I’m sorry you’re feeling frustrated.
It’s like this because it is a Forbidden Experiment.
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Most games allow you to mute text chat with players... That's pretty much a given...
Yeah that leaving a note on profile is just a dbd thing for some reason, no clue why... But in the end it is just wasted time on their side... Then again I have close to 3 K hours and nobody left a note on my profile despite it not being private...
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Back when they were about to release the game in 2016 (at the time just coming to only Steam) they could either finish KYF or SWF modes, but not both for launch. They went with KYF.
Then survs wishing to team up would lobby dodge like mad until they got into the same lobbies together, and within like two weeks or whatever SWF was added in.
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I agree absolutelly unnecesary on their part. However I also think people exaggerate a lot what being called or typed in a videogame entails. Like just block/mute them I see no issue with bhvr adding vc to the game.
Mind you I have been called al sorts of things since my xbox 360 days and other games, multiple people have told me in creative ways how to keep myself safe or things related to my ethnicity. But alas I just press a button and the issue is solved.
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The tone in online games has always been rougher and trash talk and insults are basically the norm... Therefore it is kind of fair to say that.
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Would be nice, but you cannot block text chat with individual players in this game... While it is a thing in any other game, just not this one... No clue why, it is basic functionality.
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I think it's more that VC wouldn't help most solo queue players because most solo queue players wouldn't use VC. More players would use pings or even just seeing what perks teammates had. Still not all of them obviously, just like how many players don't use the survivor UI info, but I'd wager quite a lot more would use what other people suggest than the few who actually would turn on VC.
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I'll also jump in as a person who doesn't want voice chat. I like the uniqueness of soloq and not nessecarily knowing what the other survivors are doing. I probably enjoyed the game more pre-HUD, the mystery element of what other survivors where up to was a great game mechanic.
Unfortunately, for balance reasons they're going to have to bring them closer together. Voice chat isn't necessary. A few more bits of info in the HUD would go a long way.
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if you want what SWF have then find some friends and play with them. That’s what SWF is.
As a solo player I wouldn’t use the random voice chat. The likelihood of having some giant emotional baby scream in your ears or an arm chair general dolling out commands is all to high in a charged environment like pvp.
Also being on voice chat kills a lot of the game’s tension. Even my SWF pals don’t tend to use it much during game except for making funny comments and quips.
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You make some good points but how many players will just quit out if some of the team don’t use the chat.
People already quit at the slightest provocation, and half the team opting out of chat would just give the quitters another excuse.
I doubt it would add as much as people think given how quick a rather large section of the dbd player base is willing to just bow out the moment the game isn’t perfectly what they want.
I wouldn’t be using the voice chat because frankly the game is better without it as survivor.
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The argument against it goes like that though, so bringing it up can be OK I guess. Not saying the phrasing was the appropriate way but still.
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I mean when they already quit over nothing then why care about them? Just because some guys will DC over every little thing does not mean we should not add useful features.
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fair enough.
Given how voice chat can largely nullify parts of the game I’m still not a fan. Thinking calling out stealth killer locations and trap setups.
The unknown is part of the game and voice chat kinda kills it.0 -
I mean, you don't need to use it if you prefer the more "natural" playstyle with unknown and everything.
Ofc such killer mechanics would need specific reworks to counteract those changes, but as of currently they are already having a rough time when going against people on coms compared to others of equal skill without coms when it comes to placing traps or approaching from stealth, it would obviously be a huge update.
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I honestly would like pings, I feel they'd be better for the game than voice chat, but I understand why it'd not be healthy for the game. But I really feel pings is the way to go for solo survivor.
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Apparently basekit aura reading is just too confusing for dbd players. Meanwhile there are 261 perks, 49 maps, and 36 killers behind paywalls/grinding yet seeing yellow teammates not shaped like a killer is too much for them to handle.
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Yeah sometimes they just come up with the most obvious excuses that everybody will just have the same thought: "Well that is some bs... Do they think we're stupid and don't see through that?"
Besides that the game has also god knows how many different status effects and as a you new player you just get flooded by everything... For some reason they don't seem to think that having a on off option is a thing... If it is confusing for new players just put the option in and put it off on default. It is really not that hard. Then players can turn it on if they are fine with it, and the whole counter argument is gone... But oh well...
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B/c people like to complain about problems far more than actually attempting solutions.
"do something about swf"
"ok voice chat enabled, optional, mutable, not required"
"no not that, voice chat will turn toxic"
If voice chat is never added in, solo que will never ever be even close to SWF's level of coordination. And so this whole 'nerf SWF' discussion that pops up often is pointless. The solution/bridge closer is obvious. BHVR just doesn't want to go that route.
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