Dev Update: DS Nerf/Gen Slowdown Nerf

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blastea
blastea Member Posts: 17

Looking at the dev update it looks like Gen slowdown builds have been decently nerfed. Any thought if this will actually change the most seen builds (not seeing Pop almost every game since it's gone from 30% to 20%) or do you think it won't be enough? I don't care what killers run usually either way. I feel with deadlock being nerfed by 5 seconds it will still be seen extremely often.

Side note, what's with with DS nerf? I felt like even putting it to 5 seconds with the new animations it was still a meh perk, and now its 4 seconds? I've just been using OTR in its place.

I'm not too sure if the changes will make a huge difference so I wanted to ask the more experienced players here. Cheers!

Comments

  • TheLastTreedad
    TheLastTreedad Unconfirmed, Member Posts: 7
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    Why would they nerf gen rushing. When it's the survivors doing gens is the only goal. Just like tunneling there's only so much you could do

  • Chaosrider
    Chaosrider Member Posts: 489
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    Slowdown will be still the meta., cause its still the easiest way in combination with cheap strategies. The effects of those nerfs will not be much at all. The DS nerf is just another example, that devs dont care for game health - not that DS actually would be a good perk to begin with. DS being to effective is the most blatant lie in years.

  • Mr_K
    Mr_K Member Posts: 9,119
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    I expect all gen slowdown threads to cease.

    🤣

  • Spare_Them_Mori_Me
    Spare_Them_Mori_Me Member Posts: 1,328
    edited May 10
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    I expect to see more gen slowdown threads, just backwards. There will be complaints about the regression meta being tampered with. I'd wager all my BPs.

    On the flipside, they should really look at survivor perks that combat gen regression (Dejavu, prove thyself, Resil). The battles were pretty good when killer brought all regression and my team brought all rush. We've been trying to clash this for a bit and it finally happened after a few hours. Was a really great game that ended with 2k/2e, 1 gen getting kicked 8 times (Whatever the kick cap is), and some good chases.

    EGChat was wholesome and we talked until the server actually booted us. :/

    Still, Im curious if survivor gen speed perks are gonna turtle head out a bit.

  • Seraphor
    Seraphor Member Posts: 8,972
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    I don't agree that a nerf to the most powerful and prevalent perks in a category requires a compensatory buff. There are still a load of other viable gen slowdown perks that haven't been nerfed, and you are absolutely not forced to run Pop Pain Res to 'cope with gen speeds'.

    If it were a truly universal nerf to gen slowdown that would be a different matter, but it's literally just 2 regression perks and 2 gen block perks. It's not the end of the world, you just need to stop being a metaslave.

    That said, it woul be the ideal time to look at toolboxes, especially considering that they're adjusting sabo speeds too. At the very least Commodious and Wire Spool should be nerfed a little, so that a purple toolbox might actually be better than a green one.

  • hailxsatanxeveryxday
    hailxsatanxeveryxday Member Posts: 913
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    As far as the 8.0.0 changes go, they're clean, healthy nerfs. They're a tiny bit weaker, but they'll still be very strong, and killers will be able to get plenty out of them without them being as oppressive as they can be in certain builds on certain killers. I'm personally still going to keep running all of those perks as much as I do now.

    People complaining about the nerfs need to remember the treatment Ruin and Call of Brine got. At least these perks are still viable.

    I'm not a big fan of getting only 20% instead of 30%, since I'd like to be as oppressive as possible and curb-stomp every group of survivors that comes through, but it's understandable from a gameplay balance perspective. And it if means the end of BU+FTP, I'm not complaining.

    Ultimate Weapon, on the other hand, was overnerfed into oblivion, and nobody at all is ever going to run that again, which is disappointing since the original nerf they gave it was enough.

    Honestly, I didn't think it affected gameplay all that much when DS was originally nerfed to three seconds, and I also didn't really notice any changes in game flow when they re-buffed it to five. The only thing DS needed was to deactivate during the endgame.

    When I play survivor, I've never used any anti-tunneling perk other than OTR on a regular basis.

  • Coffeecrashing
    Coffeecrashing Member Posts: 3,359
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    Repair stacking needs to be nerfed, especially when done with a commodious toolbox. There is such a huge difference between the value survivors can get with a regular toolbox, and the value they can get by stacking a bunch of repair addons/perks with a toolbox. That is what needs to be nerfed.

  • Chaogod
    Chaogod Member Posts: 102
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    You can really tell when someone never plays killer just by their words lol. Sounds like to me you are a survivor main trying to downplay it so they don't nerf it. And those changes werent anything.

  • Chaogod
    Chaogod Member Posts: 102
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    Ruin and Call of Brine viable? LOL

    You might be the only person who thinks that. No one runs those perks EVER anymore.

    Show me a build made by someone who''s good at the game that uses either.

  • Marioneo
    Marioneo Member Posts: 682
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    i dont understand the hate to Pop it was 30% to CURRENT progress applied to gens 60% and below progress is nothing it only had real value when gens were at 90% progress now im just gonna use Grim Embrace where you can't do gens for 100 seconds hope survivors are happy

  • blastea
    blastea Member Posts: 17
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    I really don’t mind Pop, there’s much more annoying perks imo. I know some people think it gets stale seeing it most games though but eh.

  • BlightedDolphin
    BlightedDolphin Member Posts: 1,686
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    The meta won't change that much. Slowdown will still be the best play. The only one that will probably see less play is Pop. The others are still decent.

    I think it was the right move, the main issue with slowdown was Pain Res and Pop being used together. Now this combo will be less oppressive, even if it is still relatively common.

    There are some issues with it though - while this will make high tiers killers less oppressive they will still be really good as they never needed it in the first place. However low tier killers are now weaker and actually encouraged to run more slowdown because a single one might not be enough for them.

    Slowdown definitely needed this nerf, but I hope they buff some of the weaker killers later to compensate.

    As for DS, there's probably a few reasons for this changes:

    1. The perk was already very good against most killers at high MMR and in competitive settings when it was at 3 seconds. They may have wanted to reduce it a little to not make it so powerful there while still keeping it useful for less skilled players. 4 seconds is a good middle ground.
    2. It drastically hurt lower tier killers more than higher tier ones. Whether it is 3 seconds, 5 seconds, or even 7 seconds, killers like Nurse and Blight won't care that much as they can just down you again quickly. However for killers like Freddy or Trapper, a single DS could potentially lose you the entire game. If the perk is game changing for low tier killers while only being a minor annoyance against the high tier ones, I think a slight nerf is fine.

    Overall, I think this is a pretty good update.

  • Xernoton
    Xernoton Member Posts: 5,368
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    Welp, time to run Knockout. How the devs refuse to do something about actual problems but then nerf the killer meta, that at least required to hook without compensation is a mystery.

    This will end up worse than the 6.1.0 meta.

  • hailxsatanxeveryxday
    hailxsatanxeveryxday Member Posts: 913
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    You misread. I said that "People complaining about the nerfs need to remember the treatment Ruin and Call of Brine got," meaning that at least Pain Res and Pop didn't get the treatment that Brine and Ruin got.

    When I said that "these perks" are still viable, I meant Pain Res and Pop. I thought that was self-evident.

  • ad19970
    ad19970 Member Posts: 6,347
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    Knock Out is definitely in need of a complete rework, or a hefty nerf. But the nerfs to the most popular slowdown perks are understandable, they could become a little oppressive when used together.

    If killers will struggle too much with gens, the devs can always add something to the killers basekit to help them with gens. That is of course, if they also nerf tunneling and camping.

  • Xernoton
    Xernoton Member Posts: 5,368
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    […] they could become a little oppressive when used together.

    That hasn't changed. Stacked on top of each other they are still damn powerful. What has changed though is the strength of only 1-2 slowdown perks. Each individual perk was completely fine. It's a similar situation to exhaustion perks. Imagine, if you could stack all of them and they only had individual cooldowns.

    We are at a point, where we can only achieve perk variety by forcing it. Otherwise people will stack the same kind of perks for as long as they remain useful. Nerfing all slowdown perks into obscurity isn't an option though.

  • ad19970
    ad19970 Member Posts: 6,347
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    It would certainly be nice if the devs could have figured out some exhaustion type for killers so that stacking gen regression perks wouldn't be as strong anymore. That way they would still be very strong on their own but not as oppressive put together. But stacking these perks now together, while still good, won't be as oppressive anymore, that's for sure.

  • Deathstroke
    Deathstroke Member Posts: 3,169
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    Tunneling unfortunately seems to be getting buffs now. Slow down nerf means killers will tunnel more and with ds nerf this soon it will be easier even it was not that difficult before. Though some killers tunnel even with 4 slow downs at 5 gens so that get at least bit nerfed.

  • devoutartist
    devoutartist Member Posts: 79
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    that's not true you got the basekit that you're asking you just don't realize it when you kick the gen/or have a regression event you already regress a 5% basekit that the survs have to repair to stop regression regression perks needed adjustment after they added this effect you can't just gen tap anymore

  • unclefood87
    unclefood87 Member Posts: 50
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    It's definitely an issue of the devs not looking into the reason why killer players are quad stacking slowdown perks. I think the slowdown perks needed some nerfs, but at the same time why aren't we buffing other killer perks/basekit regression or nerfing survivor gen regression perks/items?

  • danielmaster87
    danielmaster87 Member Posts: 8,546
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    No. No. No.

    Gen defence wasn't decently nerfed, it was eviscerated. There are no good gen perks now, certainly not Deadlock which wasn't even worth running up to this point. People will still cycle through them as they continue to receive nerfs, until the devs decide to address gen speed or chase efficiency.

    5-second DS stun is way too much. At 3 seconds, you had to actually use your brain and go down near a loop so you could start looping after being dropped. Now we've gone back to 2019 where you get a DS stun and get a free cross-map run vs anybody bar Blight. But duration of the stun is just a cherry on top, honestly. The biggest strength of DS is forcing the killer to go on a 4th chase to kill the survivor. It's forced because tunneling is necessary, because gens are too fast and/or chases are too long. All these killers and perks keep getting nerfed and buffed because core issues keep getting ignored.

    People complaining that 4-second DS is too weak, threatening to not use it anymore, are ungrateful for a great anti-tunnel tool which shouldn't have been buffed in the first place. Why it was re-buffed to 5 seconds, I'll never know. Why it was brought down to 4, I'll never know, because usually killer outcry just gets ignored. This back and forth buff/nerf did nothing for the game, but it did make a killers and survivors argue again instead of focusing on real issues, so mission accomplished.

  • danielmaster87
    danielmaster87 Member Posts: 8,546
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    Why would the gen defense perks need nerfs? They're not even husks of their former selves. I remember when survivors wouldn't play that well, gave the killer tons of (pre-nerf) Pop and Pain Res value, and they'd still get 2-3 people out. Now that the survivors are playing well because MMR, and the gen defense is weaker, look at the results: Killers losing and drawing by default. Nobody wants to play the role anymore, so they're gonna quit the game or go full-time survivor. People won't admit that survivor meta perks are way too strong, and killer meta perks are mediocre at best, so the cycle will just continue.

  • danielmaster87
    danielmaster87 Member Posts: 8,546
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    If someone is on their second hook before a gen is done, the survivor team is bad and deserves to lose. I can't remember the last time it happened to me playing as killer, because I don't face babies.

    Where are these supposed buffs to tunneling, anyway? Because I'm updated pretty well, and I haven't had 1 neuron fire in regards to killer buffs. DS is 4 seconds now? Congrats, you just got an already strong meta perk buffed by a net 1-second. It shouldn't have been 5 in the first place. Do you know how game-losing the perk is to be hit by, just in principle? And I'm getting hit with 1-2 a game, and almost still winning. Imagine if the perk was balanced, and I could reap the rewards of thousands of hours of experience and "getting some thick skin." Nope. Survivor will continue to be buffed to where, and I called it, milquetoast survivors can beat veteran killers.

  • Deathstroke
    Deathstroke Member Posts: 3,169
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    Survivor team does not deserve to die just because they did one mistake and that's why there is 3 hook state for each survivor. Many killers use lethal pursuer which can lead to quick down. I get down/hooks once in while at 5 gens and I don't face babies just outplay the survivor. In soloQ well quick downs happen even more.

    Ds from 5s nerfed to 4s. It's big buff for many killers nurse, blight and spirit can now instantly down survivor easily again that 4s is barely anything to them. Whereas 5s actually allowed chance for survivor. Tunneling will be very easy with these killers and not difficult with most killers who have antiloop powers. It now only really punishes weak m1 killers. Ds with 4s could work if it disabled killer power for 5-10s.

    It's your own fault if you're getting hit it by that much. You either tunnel or survivors abuse it which is easy to tell and you could slug them instead. Ds could be only better balanced if it punishes every killer the same amount. 5s is still not lot for S tier killers but is too much for m1 killers and does anyone play them expect console players... Ds forces killers to think whether tunnel or not so it's healthy perk for the game.

    Recently survivors have been getting nerfs lot more than killers it's not 2019 anymore. Many killers are buffed even if they don't need one (huntress). Slow down was buffed before so now it's just toned down bit. Devs balance around 60% killrate and given how much killers have been getting buffs we are probably above that.

  • JeanGreyarea
    JeanGreyarea Member Posts: 485
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    “Now that the survivors are playing well because MMR, and the gen defense is weaker, look at the results: Killers losing and drawing by default. Nobody wants to play the role anymore, so they're gonna quit the game or go full-time survivor.”

    Yeah ok💀

  • TheTom20
    TheTom20 Member Posts: 412
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    I don't think they should go through with the changes