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Giving up is making this game borderline unplayable
I don't care which side you play more; survivors who give up screw the game for everyone involved. A perfectly winnable match can be completely turned when a single survivor gives up
Survivor didn't got the perks they wanted in Chaos Shuffle? They give up. Survivor had a bad first chase and got hooked? They give up. Survivor got found in a locker? Yep, they give up.
This game would be healthier if you didn't have the ability to try to self-unhook unless you were running Deliverance or Slippery Meat, and you should not get skill checks at all during the second hook phase.
Also, there's currently no penalty if a survivor AFKs as soon as they're hooked, or if they just throw the match and go directly to the killer to be killed. Yet, if killers AFK, they get the full DC penalty. Make it make sense, please.
Comments
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Well, there are no come back mechanics for survivors. Most times a minor mistake does end the game for survivors. Survivors pretty much have to play close to perfectly or they lose.
It’s like chess, when you know you’ve lost, you forfeit, you don’t keep playing a lost game.36 -
Why play out a lost game? If the first chase is incredibly short or doesn't happen at all (if the killer finds them in a locker) that's it. There is a 99% chance that that game will end in a 3/4k anyway, so why not move on? Also most of the people that let go in chaos shuffle have no mither and that is completely understandable. That perk is basically an insta loss.
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If someone gives up at every minor mistake, then of course the matches will be lost.
Also, if I'm playing a low mobility killer on a big map, and they repair generators in a way where the last one or two are perfectly split up, I know I won't win. But I still can't give up without taking a penalty. So why can one side give up as they please, while screwing everyone else's game, but not the other?
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One bad chase at the beginning does not lose you the game as survivor. So often enough, people do give up for the most ridiculous reasons.
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Giving up on hook is sadly a necessity, since right now, you can have situations where survivors will have lost no matter what, like when only 2 survivors are left, or 3 with 3 or 4 gens still around. In those cases it makes no sense to keep staying in the game.
I do agree that it's really annyoing when a survivor gives up for some stupid reason, which happens often enough, but again, suiciding on hook seems like a necessity to me.
One thing that could help to encourage survivors to stay in matches even if things are looking grim are better bloodpoints. Right now, killers get more bloodpoints on average than survivors.
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It’s really just entitlement plain and simple. Yesterday I got sandbagged super hard by a team mate and went down because of it and I stayed. I then failed to dead hard and got downed immediately and I still stayed. I then failed to Dead Hard AGAIN and stayed and died.
All of that happened in one single match. Was I annoyed? Absolutely. But I’m not a baby who cries and gives up when things don’t go their way.
meanwhile I had a match later where a survivor tried to kill themselves on hook. We unhooked them and they ran right to the killer who downed them and slugged them for 4 minutes. We all worked on the last 3 gens while they were slugged and got a 2 man out.I felt bad because they didn’t go afk and were occasionally crawling around nearby and they clearly wanted to try to play again once they saw us winning. But I left them on the ground to not reward that behavior. I’ve been punished like that before and I deserved it. But I don’t do that anymore.
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it is not a necessity. in no way, shape or form
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It’s an entitlement issue. People tend to vastly exaggerate how many games are unwinnable. The giving up and DC’ing problem is out of control. Almost 50% of my survivor matches have someone do this within the first minute of the match. Remove the struggle phase on second hook and remove the unhook attempts unless they’re running a perk that allows it. Maybe even increase the DC penalty. Something needs to be done.
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Im not gonna call it entitlement or whatever, but I will call it what I feel when it happens, be it Im a survivor or the killer: It sucks and it has sucked for awhile.
My hate for tunneling isn't because tunneling, but because how frequent I saw it and how boring it was over and over and over.
Survivors giving up like this is becoming the same thing: repetitive and boring. If a survivor gives up 45 seconds into the game because they were the one found first, ggs. Probably gonna lose.
Compound that with the tunneling meta and there's not much reason to play currently. I talk myself out of it often recently.
Anyway, people will continue unless BHVR steps in, and with this issue… how can they?
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If the Killer isn't running gen regression, then sure. If all the Survivors are good, then sure.
But for the average game, a bad chase at the beginning can and often will cost you the match.
As a different poster pointed out, Survivors don't really have any comeback mechanics and they are designed to get weaker as the match goes on. A bad chase at the beginning of the match will often snowball out of control, even against a semi-decent Killer. Against a player that knows what they're doing? A bad chase can be lights-out for the whole team.20 -
I’m genuinely baffled that you’re defending someone who forced themselves into the second hook state on their first hook. That’s basically a death sentence for that survivor. Let alone them missing their skill check. That’s clearly giving up behavior.
It’s an entirely different story to try and yeet off a single time when a survivor is nearby and it won’t put you into 2nd hook state. But that’s not what they did.
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I honestly want to just quit when it happens in my killer games, once one survivor does it it's like a domino effect because nobody wants to play anymore then we're all stuck with not alot of points and wasted add ons or offerings, meanwhile the guy who just ripped the big fart and left the room is already in a new match, repeating the cycle until they get a easy killer or preferable map, the game should time how long it takes to sacrifice yourself on hook and if you go from first hook state to dead too fast you should get a matchmaking ban just like you DC so that way they have to eat the penalty regardless.
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Unfornately the community has decided it's better to ruin games for other people than to attempt to play out any minor inconvenience. A problem that can only be solved by the devs removing the ability to let oneself die on hook.
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Today I learned that wanting people to play the matches they queue up for, instead of leaving at the minor inconvenience, is entitlement. Lmao
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As a rule of thumb, two hooks before two gens = ez win for the killer.
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Meh. I've won plenty of games that went south pretty hard due to someone being bad. I wouldn't say most games are doomed if someone messed up at the start.
That being said, I am not in favor of removing being able to die on hook unless DC penalties were modified to give one free DC per day.
People wanting stricter DC penalties and inability to die on hook just sound like killer players to me tbh.
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Sure keep blaming others for your lack of skill.
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Meh one or two good chases can definitely tilt the match quite a bit, I would argue that's the comeback mechanic. Even with a bad chase at start, and the killer running slowdown perks, the game is not lost yet. You'll just need some good chases as well. I have had such matches both as killer and survivor already.
I get that it's harder if the killer stacks gen slowdowns, but it's still possible. And not a reason to immediately give up, screwing over your entire team.
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Running the killer on a good chase doesn't qualify as a comeback mechanic for survivors?
If there's two survivors alive with like 4 gens left sure, that's a hatch game. But I recently lost a game on my main with 4 hooks at 5 gens(I don't suck I can assure you.) A few good chases and mistakes by me was all it took. I believe OP's point was lots of times survivors don't even sweat for a comeback, just go next and hope there's low-hanging fruit in the next trial.
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One bad chase at the start does not end in a 99% chance of losing, what the actual hell? You can have good chases as survivor afterwards.
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Which is not something that happens in an average match.
In order to recover from that, you'd need to be chased for at least a gen, if not more.
That's a pretty massive ask in today's meta.
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I disagree. Good chases aren't an absolute rarity, even against strong killers. You also don't need to be chased a whole gen to make a comeback after a bad start, not in my experience. Of course it also depends on how efficient survivors are working on gens. But no, that's an exaggeration in my opinion.
If the killer hard tunnels things become harder as well, admittedily. But that's an issue of tunneling being too strong at the moment.
Again, very bad reason to immediately give up and screw over your team.
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If the killer downs a survivor before a single gen is even close to completion, there is basically no way to come back from that in the average pub game, except if the killer throws on purpose.
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Definitely disagree with that. I have had enough matches that weren't like this. You'll just need some good chases as well, to counterbalance the bad chase at the start.
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Imagine how boring sports would be if players just started leaving randomly in the middle of a match if they were losing and decided they had no chance at a comeback. Just walkin right off the field and ignoring their team. Part of the concept of sportsmanship is playing games out to the end, no matter how bad they look. Why play if you want to keep giving up in order to cherry pick games, especially when you're already in them and ruining the match for 4 other people? What happens when you find a match you're willing to play but other players aren't?
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Disagree with that. It certainly isn't looking bad for the killer in that scenario, but it definitely isn't an easy win either.
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They can literally 4%.
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You completely missed the point so many times that it's amazing.
No one cares about those players who have something to attend to in real life and have to quit, because they do so by disconnecting properly or using alt + f4, which replaces them with a bot so the match isn't completely ruined.
The whole point here is that some survivors give up for the dumbest reasons, ruining the match for everyone else. This isn't even a killer vs. survivor issue, just some basic etiquette: don't queue up for a match if you're going to be a crybaby and leave when things don't go your way. Is that really so difficult to comprehend? Because I can't dumb it down any more.
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oh grow up… the leave button is in the menu.
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If DBD is just a video game, why are you wasting your time on a video game you have no intention to actually play?
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It's a team game, and so it's an unsportsmanlike, unethical thing to do to quit on your team. You're crying about people taking the game seriously and people making bad comparisons, and then you make it all about 1 person's life trumping the others'. Seems pretty serious to me.
This is the only game community that dies on a hill defending rage quitting.
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That's how these people think: killer having any advantage for any amount of time is a lost match. It's why they think the whole killer roster is viable, and not just the top 3.
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and the leave button is in the menu. use it
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"It's faster to find a new game than to finish a lost match" ~ quote from some random guy.
Additionally, there are many things that BHVR can do to ensure that players continue to play a losing match. And this does not apply to 4%.
They really don't need to change much to get rid of 80% of suicides. Just add:
1) more BP or exp for survs. Now you can barely earn blood points.
2) interactive maps. They could add event stuff permanently. Snowballs would be a great idea. Most players had fun snowballing with each other.
3) banning one killer as a soloq survivor. Many games have this option, either for maps or characters.1 -
First chase is very important but it's possible from recover with great 2nd or 3rd chase. Difference is even with average first chase 2 gens can pop. Debends on team effiency usually when I have good chase teammates waste time healing when they could popped gens. So then they only do one or two gens maybe. But 90s chase should not be required if it's 4vs1. In 3vs1 it is when only 2 can work on gens in best case scenario.
I agree it does not have to be amazing chase to turn game around. Survivors often get at least 1-2 gen done even if killer is dominating. So then just keeping the killer busy 30-40s without getting hit can change the game if your teammates are efficient. It might not make it certain you win but it does give chance.
I had that kind of chase agains't billy today unfortunately he gave up but we got in situation where it was 2 gens left and everyone still alive. We ended up losing but teammates did critical mistakes when it was 1 gen left and we did get them all done but just too late when it was 2vs1.
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I'm not really arguing about the giving up part, I'm arguing about the comeback mechanic.
An average Killer versus an average Survivor with the Killer getting an early down is pretty damn difficult to come back from. You do need to have gen-long chases because of slowdown/tunneling. You need to buy time for everyone to reset, split up and start on gens.
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The actual rule for that is "someone dead before the fourth gen is done is usually a Killer win"
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Bad solo queue teammates might actually make me angrier than a killer match, because it's so simple to win and they make it so difficult. Insta-DC vs Skull Merchant, rage quit vs Wraith, can't beat Ghost Face, etc. But yeah, solo's difficulty has nothing to do with killer being too strong. It has to do with getting garbage teammates, because the MMR system is based on just kills/escapes. Hooks (and maybe gens?) need to be taken into account as well.
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Why play out a lost game?
Killers are expected to. So little they DC it's laughted at and seen as cowardly. Survivors though, its all oh woe is me and not held into acount.
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There's no comeback mechanic because this is a PvP not a PvE. You make your own comeback or die trying.
Post edited by Mr_K on3 -
Killers not only get stronger the longer the game goes on as resources get used and the patrol routes get shorter, but they also have basekit comeback mechanics in camping and tunneling.
Survivors have all their power at the beginning and it's all downhill from there. So a bad start is a lot more devastating for survivors than for killers.
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I am not going to agree with this. It all depends on how efficient the survivor team is on gens, and how long chases last that come after the first chase. If the survivors and killer are equally skilled, there is definitely still a fair chance for survivors to make a come back.
And no, in my experiecne, you don't always need gen long chases to make a comeback. Of course there are a lot of factors that have an effect on this, for example how many survivors are injured at the time of a chase. Also, as I said, if the killer is running a full slowdown build, things get harder, but not impossible. Not to mention the best slowdown perks are getting nerfed anyways in the next patch.
In the majority of cases, this is right. A 3 vs 1 is hard to win with 2 or more gens up.
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The dc's/suicides rates have spike after the pips changes. Went from seeing players quitting once every 5 games to once every 3 games.
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I mean, some people here are definitely a bit pessimistic about survivors chances of winning. But I don't think it's just about killer having any advantage at all.
And I also disagree that only the top 3 killers are viable, the game certainly has more viable killers than only 3.
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@PreorderBonus: 'A perfectly winnable match can be completely turned when a single survivor gives up'
On another side: a already lost game can't be win when you are the only one to do some useful for your team (long chase or repairing gens).
In soloQ, YOU KNOW when the match is lost. Playing it anyway, it is just a waste of time…
BTW to give up on the hook isn't bannable so no one cares about the fun, the match or whatever else.
Just as a reminder: if someone is trying to give up on the hook but a rescuer comes and he safe/unsafe unhooks him/her during the last stage, what do you expect from this 'already dead' mate to do not throw the game, DC or to surrender ?
Pure logic.
And for @danielmaster87 : calling these (bad) teammates 'garbage' for this behaviour doesn't honor you. If you starts to be angrier by the survivors, maybe it's time to have a break and to breathe so fresh air… or to play more soloQ and to show us your replays.
Criticism is easy but art is difficult… I will be very curious to know if you never makes stupid mistakes with your 'garbage'' teammates…3 -
basekit comeback mechanics in camping and tunneling.
Which requires what? Catching someone! Not only that the other survivors would gave to fall into that trap. In a situation where you have to "catch up", camping out one survivor won't stop the remaining gens to be done and them running out the gate.
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It has become self defeating. They point to a 60% kill rate but forget this issue has been going on for years. So they give up more now because there's no real penalty in doing so, thus raising the kill rate more.
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I was playing Onryo on Eerie of Crows, and was about to hook a survivor, they failed to flashlight me, so a already injured P100 Leon goes to body block me, so I hit him, and he gets downed, and DC's instantly, without ever being hooked, not even the person I originally was carrying DC'ed, another time I was playing Wesker on Autohaven, and a Sable walked down to basement, without any hooks, and got downed, knowing she was a Sable I walked out of basement and hooked her, and she DC'ed instantly, why?
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Exactly, survivor is a lost cause these days. Unfortunately, the game is somewhat balanced around all four survivors genrushing and the killer playing badly, which is horrible to be honest.
With keys being nerfed, and gens taking so long to repair, so many unloopable killers, it is often difficult for survivors to ever see a winning opportunity. Survivors need a new hope mechanic so every match feels winnable.
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So a bad start is a lot more devastating for survivors than for killers.Disagree, since the more progress survivors make before they start to weaken, the harder the killer has to snowball to catch up. if a game is 2 hooks on separate survivors with only one gen left, the killer has most likely been hurt a lot by the early game. You're not wrong in stating the importance of the early game for survivors, but its arguably as important for killers as well.
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