Sadako first rework was very unique killer, then discarded again
Her first rework wasnt flawless lets say, it was prob needed to be little bit nerfed but the core function and idea was flawless.
You had the only killer in the game that was balanced around having no chase power to insane pressure and no hooks reguied killer.
She was strong and unique. Yes, she was bit too ezi to just spam tps until someone can be moried but all it would need is to nerf that version a bit and leave it there.
But instead we go back to that awfully weak first version with just better chase (still kinda weak) but worse condement (joke power).
You had it all almost but you trow it away.
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Sadako in her current iteration is basically as perfect as her inherent design will allow.
Condemn is no longer a mechanic survivors can ignore, the slugging issue is mostly gone and she's actually encouraged to hook people now to preserve condemn stacks, and she's not as oppressive as she was in her first rework.
She's still very good, you just need to think while playing her instead of being able to just spam teleport and then bully whoever is close to being condemned to make sure they can't use a tape.
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The only correct statement in here is "she's not as oppressive as she was in her first rework." I mean, yea, because she kind of sucks now.
Everything else is just objectively wrong.
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I seem to do fine as her, and the rare Sadakos I run into as survivor also seem to do okay.
So I think the objectively wrong one is you.
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Your post is like: "I am glad she is useless". I am not joking that whenever i play survivor and it is her. it is sign of relief for how chill the game is going to be. I almost expect to win.
I fully agree with @Chocolate_Cosmos post. every detail of it. All you can hope is that Sadako is reverted/changed back one day to something more middle-ground relevant.
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She took far more effort to play against than to play as.
Now she takes more effort to play as then against.
Her gameplan was extremely flowcharty and braindead.
a good description of current survivor gameplay vs Sadako. I am curious to why this is fine for survivor but never fine for killer? Double standards? I also do not agree but in any case.
Meanwhile if you were ever unfortunate enough to go up against really good survivors, it was miserable in the opposite direction. Because any survivor holding a tape was immune to condemn stacking, all they needed to do is hold a tape and rush gens as hard as possible while preying on her lack of a chase power to delay a hit or down as long as they could.survivor holding a tape was immune to condemn stacking
Holding the tape balanced her kit. This description is contradiction to your first statement about her being flowcharty and *********. Perhaps she was too difficulty for you. Facing strong teams Is not suppose to be a free win. Her kit was an appropriate amount of difficulty. Perhaps slightly over-tuned numerical in condemn direction and not enough in the anti-loop/stealth/TV TP direction but still within passable boundaries.
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Now she takes more effort to play as then against.
She takes effort to play as, where previously she did not. Survivor is still survivor.
a good description of current survivor gameplay vs Sadako. I am curious
to why this is fine for survivor but never fine for killer? Double
standards?This is such tribalistic nonsense. The only way you could think playing against current Sadako is flowcharty and braindead is if you think survivor gameplay is flowcharty and braindead. There was nothing fun about wandering around the map trying to find a TV that wasn't turned off, and then once you had a tape you needed to play extremely well to make chasing you an unappealing prospect for her since she only needed to hit you to get rid of the tape.
Holding the tape balanced her kit. This description is contradiction to
your first statement about her being flowcharty and *********.No it's not. Sadako didn't have a chase power, not really, other than flicker mindgames. What made her dangerous if that if she managed to hit you, the Sadako could make it basically impossible to get another tape and then also return it.
Since most survivors don't play perfectly and will make a mistake, she's gonna get that hit. The only thought this required from the Sadako is basic M1 killer fundamentals.
The issue came that if the survivors were good enough to make that hit take a long time to get while also being able to rely on their allies to do gens efficiently. The tapes completely protected them from condemn stacking, so anyone you didn't manage to hit was immune to your power, so you just weren't building pressure on anybody at all. This isn't the case for current Sadako, as a reminder, who is able to build condemn regardless of if they're holding a tape or not, she just can't mindlessly spam teleport to stack it on people without tapes regardless of where they are on the map.
Perhaps she was too difficulty for you.
Please. One of my mains is Freddy and I win as him the majority of the time. I know how to play basic M1 killers. There was no playing around the tapes except to hit them out of people's hands. If survivors made that extremely hard to do, then you were screwed, it's not like you had any skill shots or advanced movement techniques you could pull off to compensate for the survivors being too good for M1 fundamentals to suffice.
Her kit was an appropriate amount of difficulty. Perhaps slightly
over-tuned numerical in condemn direction and not enough in the
anti-loop/stealth/TV TP direction but still within passable boundaries.Her kit was broken at a fundamental level. There was no way to fix it and maintain that gameplay. She absolutely demolished average to decent survivors while disproportionately suffering against extremely good survivors compared to basically any other killer in the game, since good looping ability and holding a tape totally nullified her power and pressure.
You nerf the condemn stacking, it doesn't make her any more fun to play against or solve the fundamental issue that she could single out one survivor and just harass them to ensure they could never use the tapes to take them out of the game extremely fast, but it craters her against the teams she already struggled against unless you also gave her a legitimate chase power to compensate.
Edit: Didn't know how quoting individual lines of text worked on this forum, fixed with proper formating
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Look, there's really no nice way to say this. If you think that rework Sadako was fine and that she sucks now, you were being carried by how ridiculously strong she was against 90% of survivors in this game. You're asking to bring it back for the same reason survivors wish they could bring back all of their old stupid broken garbage like old Dead Hard and Circle of Healing. I feel very passionately about this because she's gone from one of my favorite killers to most hated killers to one of my favorites again.
Rework Sadako is one of the worst designs they have ever made. She was extremely flowcharty and braindead. You just spammed teleport to stack condemn on people. If you had the Mother's Comb, you got notified any time a survivor interacted with a TV, so you knew where they were and where to go to slap it out of their hands.
Her gameplay basically involved just picking one survivor and harassing them to make sure they can never interact with TVs while building condemned on them. Unless they weren't an absolutely cracked survivor, they were eventually going to make a mistake and go down and then die. Do this early enough and you could basically play the rest of the match without using your power at all, a 3v1 is an extremely hard for survivors to play against.
Survivors couldn't get tapes from TVs which were turned off, and they were always turned off because of how much she was teleport spamming. Survivors also can't see the auras of TVs like she can, so they had to just wander around the map to find one which wasn't turned off to get a tape, all while she's building condemn on them from her teleport spamming. Then they got a tape, she gets told where they are if she's running Mother's Comb or if she's just paying attention and notices a TV turn off by itself, then she runs over to hit them and there's a good chance they could be mori'ed right after that since destroying the tape built condemn.
She took significantly more effort to play against than to play as, especially since she herself had a low skill ceiling and skill floor. She had nothing other than flicker mindgames as a mechanic to get good with because of how much her macro game played itself for you. Go watch that video Otzdarva posted where he literally wins while playing one-handed because of how little effort it took.
Yet for all of this, she was terrible against great survivors who could actually loop you and were efficient with generators, since all they needed to do was hold a tape to be protected while they rushed gens and the member of their team she was targeting to keep from interacting with TVs threw every pallet on the map to delay her as long as possible. After a point she had no choice but to keep committing, because she had no condemn built on anybody else.
Before her rework she was one of my highest prestige killers at that time. I straight up abandoned her because I hated subjecting people to what an unfun experience it was to play against her. Meanwhile if you ever got a good survivor team, it was miserable in the opposite direction.
Sadako now, by comparison, is an excellently designed killer and likely the best designed macro play killer in the game. Building condemn is once again something the Sadako must put effort into, and survivors actually need to care about it. She takes effort and thought to play as and to play against. But the fact it takes effort and thought to play as her now makes me unsurprised that people who really liked the easy braindead version think she's useless.
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Sadako is messy right now. She needs some tweaks for sure. I’m not going to get into detail on specifics because you can find several other threads I’ve spent a lot of time expressing my thoughts so I will leave it at that.
I have almost 3k hours on Sadako. I love her, but she needs some tweaks for sure.
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disproportionately suffering against extremely good survivors compared to basically any other killer in the game, since good looping ability and holding a tape totally nullified her power and pressure.
Sounds balanced. Survivor does well = Survivor wins. Survivor does poorly, survivor loses. What exactly is the problem with this?
The only way you could think playing against current Sadako is flowcharty and braindead is if you think survivor gameplay is flowcharty and braindead.
You don't think this power is not hand-holding and spoon feeding you wins? Because I do.
There was nothing fun about wandering around the map trying to find a TV that wasn't turned off, and then once you had a tape you needed to play extremely well to make chasing you an unappealing prospect for her since she only needed to hit you to get rid of the tape.
It is almost like you should need to have some survivor skill to escape. Crazy idea.
You nerf the condemn stacking, it doesn't make her any more fun to play against or solve the fundamental issue that she could single out one survivor and just harass them to ensure they could never use the tapes to take them out of the game extremely fast, but it craters her against the teams she already struggled against unless you also gave her a legitimate chase power to compensate.
So what, do we need to invent anti-tunnel protection build into killer ability? If survivor gets hit with tape in their hand, they're immune to being condemned until another survivor is hit. Wow, I just invented anti-tunnel within killer ability.
Building condemn is once again something the Sadako must put effort into, and survivors actually need to care about it.
That is not my experience with survivor. The matches are so chill as survivor because the survivor do not need to care about condemn. Condemn is a joke mechanic for a good team.
Look, there's really no nice way to say this. If you think that rework Sadako was fine and that she sucks now, you were being carried by how ridiculously strong she was against 90% of survivors in this game.
I am disappointed that playing against the 10% of sentient survivors is unfun. The matches are not interesting. If I made a brand new account and started smurfing, I would be winning with perkless no add-on trapper. The fact is that 90% of survivor still struggle with Sadako. It is skill-level issue. Nerfing the killer will not improve survivors that play survivor poorly. All it does is create a imbalanced game at the top-level when the killer plays vs a proper team.
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I said bring her back with some nerf(s).
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"Look, there's really no nice way to say this. If you think that rework
Sadako was fine and that she sucks now, you were being carried by how
ridiculously strong she was against 90% of survivors in this game."You realize people can take this exact statement and just turn it into…
"Look, there's really no nice way to say this. If you think that rework
Sadako was bad design and that she's great now, you are being carried by how
ridiculously weak she is against 90% of survivors in this game."It's a statement that says literally nothing in either version. People could just as easily say you like Sadako now because it makes people think they're better than they are because it gives them free wins against her. Sadako counter play now is literal flow chart spoon feed. TV's are lit up for you and heard, holding a tape has zero negative, and even the drop off is so fast you can do it mid chase. To do well with her current design you rely on people playing bad or not knowing what they're doing. There are a lot of people like that in the game which can give a false perspective of how strong she is and make people think she's in a good state.
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Do you not realize how baffling your takes are?
You go and describe a bunch of stuff that made old Sadako bad, yet fail to notice she STILL has those same problems, yet now condemn is also bad as well. She still is terrible in chase, but now also can't fall back on a condemn strategy. It stacks too slowly and is way too easy to remove.
Even worse than that, YOU CAN'T EVEN SEE HOW MANY STACKS THE SURVIVORS HAVE! You can only see if they have ANY stack or not (and if they have full stacks).
You say survivors have to respect condemn now, yet you then go on to basically demonstrate how it was actually a threat in the past and now it is not. I've gone entire games never once clearing my condemned stacks and escaped, never even getting close to max. Provided the survivors aren't all collectively sharing a single brain cell, she is just not threatening.
She's not Freddy levels of bad, but calling her balanced or in a good state is just being disingenuous or you have an axe to grind.
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"Look, there's really no nice way to say this. If you think that rework
Sadako was bad design and that she's great now, you are being carried by how
ridiculously weak she is against 90% of survivors in this game."It's a statement that says literally nothing in either version.
This doesn't make any sense, since I'm talking about playing as her.
Even worse than that, YOU CAN'T EVEN SEE HOW MANY STACKS THE SURVIVORS
HAVE! You can only see if they have ANY stack or not (and if they have
full stacks).This is what I was talking about. You actually need to put thought into playing her since her macro pressure isn't auto-pilot anymore. You need to try to keep track of survivors, notice when they're interacting with tapes, remember how many times you've stacked condemn on them. You don't just win for free because you M1ed a survivor one time and then spammed the teleport button until their portrait lit up to say you can mori them now.
You say survivors have to respect condemn now, yet you then go on to
basically demonstrate how it was actually a threat in the past and now
it is not. I've gone entire games never once clearing my condemned
stacks and escaped, never even getting close to max. Provided the
survivors aren't all collectively sharing a single brain cell, she is
just not threatening.It was a threat because the counterplay was to do your best to avoid ever getting any condemn on you in the first place, because once Sadako hit a tape out of your hands, it was extremely hard to get another one and cleanse it off of yourself since she would be looking to keep you from doing that.
You can't avoid getting condemn stacks on you now. It's going to happen. You have to interact with tapes to get it off of you.
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Her first rework was annoying that most sadakos just spammed the tv's, and forced no one to be able to play the game how it was intended, if that was addressed (maybe a longer cd with the new lock in mechanic on hook) she'd be more bareable.
But I hate playing against blockbuster simulator when all they used to do was refuse chase and spam tv for free pressure.0
