http://dbd.game/killswitch
Pretty much all recent haste perks for Killers are trash
Do this do increase your speed a tiny bit for few seconds, etc.
Like do you ever see someone using them outside of like adept or random build? Naaah. They aren't good perks, the haste isnt worth it.
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I don't like these perks because they're just so boring.
The "Do X and gain Haste for 10 seconds" formula has been done ad nauseum at this point.
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I do like few like the window one or Game Afoot but the problem is the numbers are too safe and unless you play full haste/action speed build they do nothing and even then these builds are rather gimmicky than good.
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And it should stay that way.
Haste and Hindered perks make the game more boring and I'd like them to stop mass producing them.
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battery actually decent
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Clown and Skull Merchant seem to use them much better than other killers but otherwise they're not too exciting for anyone else.
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Honestly, good. Strong haste perks are almost never fun.
Ideally they’d stop making more of them. I will agree Unbound is pretty bad and could be better but the rest don’t need buffs.
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People forget that haste is better on survivors that it is killers. Yes, 5% haste TECHNICALLY gives the killer more movement speed than 5% haste on a survivor, but what is important in DBD is not the absolute movement speeds of either side, but the differences in the movement speeds between either side.
For example, imagine this scenario where there is just an infinite straight line, and the survivor and killer start 20 meters apart. The survivor runs in an infinite straight line for both hits. How long does it take the killer to down this survivor in these different scenarios? Lets do the basic math:
With a 4.6 m/s killer and a 4.0 m/s survivor, the math works as follows.
- The killer closes the gap at a rate of 0.6 meters per second.
- The attack hitbox of a killer extends out about 2 meters.
- A lunge, increases the killers movement speed to 6.9 m/s for 0.8 seconds, and during this time the survivor is able to move 3.2 meters. So a killer can max range lunge a survivor at 4.32 meters away.
- Post-hit speed boost lasts 1.8 seconds at 6.0 m/s for the survivor
- Post hit attack animation is 2.7 seconds for killer, in which they can move 0.46 m/s
Knowing those, it takes the killer:
1st hit: to close a gap of 20 meters (with the 4.32 lunge factored in) takes 26.1 seconds.
2nd hit: survivor gains 13.158 meters of distance, to close that gap takes 14.73 seconds.
Total: 26.1 + 14.73 = 40.83 seconds.
Now lets do the same math, with the killer moving 5% faster:
So a 4.83 (which is 0.23 m/s more) m/s killer against a 4 m/s survivor.
1st hit: to close a gap of 20 meters takes 18.89 seconds
2nd hit: to close a gap of 13.158 meters of distance it takes 10.65 seconds
Total: 18.89 seconds + 10.65 seconds = 29.54 seconds
Now lets do the same math, with the SURVIVOR moving 5% faster:
So a 4.6 m/s killer against a 4.2 m/s (0.2 m/s more) survivor.
1st hit: to close a gap of 20 meters takes 39.2 seconds
2nd hit: survivor gains a bit more distance of 15.12 meters, to close that gap takes 27 seconds exactly
Total: 39.2 seconds + 27 seconds = 66.2 seconds.
So you can see that:
Base: 40.83 seconds
5% faster killer: 29.54 seconds
5% faster survivor: 66.2 seconds.
- So a killer moving 5% faster, reduces the length of the chase by 11.29 seconds, or 27.6% faster chase
- A survivor moving 5% faster, increases the length of a chase by 25.37 seconds, or 62.1% longer chase.
So a survivor moving 5% faster, is much more significant, than a killer moving 5% faster. This might not make much sense, but its because the thing that is important is not that a killer gains 0.23 m/s movement speed and the survivor gains 0.2. It is about the DIFFERENCE in the movement speeds between both sides. So a killer moving at 4.83, is gaining 0.83 m/s of distance on the survivor, which is only a 27% increase. But a survivor moving at 4.2 against a 4.6 killer, has a difference of 0.4 m/s which is a much higher increase in movement speed. This is compounded by the survivor gaining this movement speed during their speed boost, which increases their speed boost even more, whereas the killer gains it during that post hit attack, which is basically nothing already.
This is why killer haste effects feel so underwhelming and why perks like MFT for example were SO much more powerful than people realized.
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I'm pretty sure haste do not increase relative speed but is applied to fixed value.
Surv running 100% getting 5% haste is moving 105%
Killer moving 115%, getting 5% haste now moves 120%, not 120,75%
But this will further validate your point, not contradict it, unless you calculated something poorly I haven't checked this yet.
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Haste is always based on the character’s default speed. So for most killers it is based on 4.6m/s (unless they are doing something from their power that changes their speed, then it’s usually based on that speed instead)
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Everything that increases or decreases things based on a percentage is additive, not multiplicative, but it is based on the "base" of that character.
So if a survivor has 5% haste, they gain 0.2 m/s but a killer will gain slightly more.
But if a survivor has say, a 7% haste from hope, and a 3% haste from MFT, they stack additively, so they stack off the base so its
4.0 + (4.0 * 0.07) + (4.0 * 0.03) = 4.4.
Or more simply, you can just add the percentages together, to get 10% haste, then do the calculation from there.
But killers do in fact gain it based on their base movement speed. You can see this in the wiki:
Specifically this section here:
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I should also add, this is why rapid brutality is actually a terrible perk. Because you trade bloodlust, a 5% haste, for a 5% haste after hitting a survivor.
So if you factor that in, that second hit, base, you take 14.73 seconds to catch up, but with rapid, it'll be 10.65, but rapid saves you ~4 seconds, but if you just waited that 4 seconds, you'd get bloodlust anyway, and that bloodlust helps you get the first hit. You could argue it helps at loops, but even then you still have to catch up to them. On top of that, haste is even WORSE at loops, because of survivor hitboxes, the amount of difference in movement speed you gain is even less when hugging around a rock. With the exception of chucky, who appears to have a similar hitbox as survivors do at loops.
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when i am bored of gen defence, i like running friends till end, nemesis, gameafoot and play with your food. I think these 4 perks work well together and are surprisingly good for killers with poor chase. i just wish gameafoot switched on all basic attacks so that friend till end and nemesis were not needed for consistency to switch the obsession for play with your food.
As for perks like Battery included, Unbound, Furtive chase, They're pretty bad. Too many condition's and not enough perk value to select them. These are the type of perks where killer would want to use them in isolation but they're not good.
Furtive chases requiring hook the obsession. The perk would be better off if it got Dead man switch treatment where it is not obsession perk and just triggers on every hook. Switching is over-shadowed by other obsession switchers.
Battery included activates when your losing. Outside of the silly Legion end game build of Remember me+No way out+NOED+Battery BFF legion build, it is not good. If they buffed this perk to work on any generator, completed or non-completed then this would be a decent filler chase perk to slot in.
Unbound has requirement to injure and a timer. Honestly, just removing both negatives and making the perk read " gain 5% haste for 10 second after vaulting a window" would make him an appealing choice to be paired with bamboozle. Too many negatives to use it on any killer.
Rapid is only good for Clown because he can hit someone, then use pink bottle post-hit. It is like exclusively only good for him. He doesn't get bloodlust because throwing bottles is superior. STBFL+Rapid is what clown has to use right now because his pinky finger got trashed.
Some people use it on singlurarity with Soma photo. decent use for the perk.
I think if rapid gave 3% consistent haste to every killer instead of 5% after a hit for 10 seconds than killers might use it over gen defence.
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Haste is an extremely potent effect and something that should be used very sparingly... I dare say generally avoided as much as possible.
It has scenarios where its OK, but we definitely want to avoid powers and perks becoming a "just slap haste on it to make it relevant" type of deal.
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So testing haste in my opinion 10% haste for x amount of seconds is the perfect balance for killers cause its gives real Value compared to those ######### 5% haste ones and I want all 5% changed to 10%
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Agreed, that’s why they should remove Hope. It’s a ridiculously strong permanent haste effect that makes you win more.
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these perks are bad by design because a small change could become a problem . Haste for killers and gen speed up for survivor perks should just not be a thing
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Battery included is … Good you know, is like the MFT for killer
And, like for survivor, it can be combined, Noed plus that, 9% speed around generator and 5 secondes after leaving the area
Yeah, that's some endgame build, but not "bad"0 -
I'd rather avoid another MFT situation on either side.
Personally I don't think haste outside exhaustion perks is a good idea in general with how maps are balanced. If there needs to be haste, it needs to have drawbacks or mechanics in place to not make it too easy to use. Batteries Included is a decent example, losing gens and gaining haste in a small area where it's most likely a deadzone for killers to even patrol and punish survivors slightly for taking chases to them away from other gens and useful for endgame.
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Machine Learning is the one haste perk I think is cool.
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Everything that increases or decreases things based on a percentage is additive, not multiplicative, but it is based on the "base" of that character.
Small correction, though doesn't change your point here:
Anything that increases by percentage indeed does so additively. This is so increases don't multiply exponentially and trend to infinity.
However anything that decreases by percent does so multiplicatively. This is so decreases don't fall to zero.
In both cases they result in diminishing returns for stacking multiple instances of the same effect.
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I see Batteries Included often enough. The Alien haste perk also gets used quite a bit. They can't be that bad if killers keep using them.
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Batteries is better than rapid for sure. But why take that, to make your chases that happen near completed gens (something you already don't want to be doing) be 5-10 seconds faster, when you could instead by running another slowdown perk that buys you far more time?
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Haste effects are stronger on survivor perks, but mainly because they tend to be very high values (Hope/Background Player) or permanent effects.
The closest thing to a real haste perk they have is PWYF, which requires constant control of your tokens. Give killers something as crazy as Hope's speed in endgame and let's see what happens. Give them a perk that opposed to Background Player allows them to move at 200% of their speed after picking a survivor from the floor… The complaining threads all over the net would be fun to read.
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It may be unpopular opinion. But I think that Devs have no ideas for perks (not that there are no ideas in specific subforum, I have posted 3 killer perks and have quite few for survs). And there will be less and less good ideas of perks, eventually depleting pool of perk ideas.
IMO Devs should reduce number of perks in game, Dead by Daylight 2 would fix the problem, but I don't want new game to fix problems that can be fixed here.
So MH solution would be overhaul to perk system (and I know lot of people will disagree with this for reasons I really don't understand):
All perks should be available to all players and shrine and character grind could unlock 3rd perk lvl on all characters. Every character should come with only one perk.
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I agree the slowdown is more likely a better option but people are sleeping on batteries I mean sure you don't want to necessarily try to chase around completed gens but at some point you'll end up doing it anyway because gens aren't super far apart and any competent team will try and break a 3 gen early and take you around those completed gens, it turns into a pick and choose your battles situation but batteries can help end a chase you might have left before Is why I consider it slept on even though I personally don't believe it's a super strong perk or anything.
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I mean, Rapid Brutality and Batteries Included are both decent on certain killers (Rapid on Clown is insane), but unless it's on those killers, they're pretty boring. I love what BHVR has been doing lately and I appreciate the work they've been putting in, but the Haste stuff is kinda boring.
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Yea I think the ideas are starting to run out now for BHVR alot of rinse and repeat perks
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I'm sure there'll be a new idea at some point (new Scourge Hook please BHVR) but we just gotta wait for it. Creativity ebbs and flows like waves in the sea.
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SSometimes you don't need or want time,what you sometimes need is something to pierce the enemy's defenses and establish a stranglehold. Against a safe team, having all the time in the world just amounts to a stalemate.
Sometimes you need a Lil somethin somethin to get the ball rolling.
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The entire game is a function of time. Yes, being "a little bit faster" buys more time in theory to "get the ball rolling" but the point is that you will always gain more time with another slowdown perk instead.
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Huh, I used to think Haste on killers is more impactful not only because it scales from their greater base movement speed, but because every % of Haste is more impactful than the % that came before it. Which is to say, if you go from 100% to 101% movement speed, that 1% difference will be less impactful in terms of catch-up time increase than the 1% if you go from 105% to 106%. And so seeing as how killers already have 10-15% on survivors, I assumed further %s would also mean relatively more for them.
That's interesting actually, and obvious really now that I think about it: You can increase the killer's movement speed even up to lightspeed and the time to catch up to the survivor would still be non-0; whereas if you increase the survivor's movement speed even by just a couple % such that they match the killer's speed, the time to catch up grows to infinity. So any speed increase on the survivor side will weigh much more. Thanks for making me think about this.
As for the topic, I do think the Haste perks are really rather lackluster and could do with buffs, but then again, the same is true for the majority of perks in this game. Rapid Brutality is fairly potent on a select few killers (such as Singularity and Clown), and can get to be rather ridiculous alongside STBFL. But I still really don't think it needs to disable Bloodlust - BL deactivates upon hitting a survivor anyway, so what gives. Maybe they could even remove the basic attack stipulation. Batteries Included while fun for what it is is a bit too much of a gimmick, they could at least increase its range a bit. Game Afoot simply does not need the Obsession stipulation, that kills the perk outside of using it for fun synergies with stuff like Rancor. Unbound I haven't really had opportunity to test out much, I do think it might be fairly underrated because you will regularly be closer to a survivor after vaulting a window than you would be after breaking a pallet or hitting them, especially if you use something like Bamboozle or Superior Anatomy alongside it of course. Yet at the same time its activation condition and time window can be a bit too limiting. Ridiculously enough, even after all this time PWYF is still the strongest Haste killer perk, and in my opinion it is overtuned. 15% Haste is just silly, it removes the concept of "chase" from the game nearly entirely and it is also extremely boring for the extent of interaction between the survivor that ends up being the Obsession and the killer to often be an awkward dance of trying to farm stacks and trying to deny the killer from doing so. Not to mention the synergy with things like Myers' Tombstone add-ons, Pinkie Finger, Iridescent Head. I think they should have long reworked the perk to gain tokens on ending chase state on any survivor, not only the Obsession, and make it possible to gain more tokens but with a lesser overall Haste %.
On the flipside, I think Made For This was overnerfed. While it was clearly an impressively strong perk, it broke with the "Exhaustion perk on every survivor basically every time" paradigm, and I think it could have been balanced at 2% Haste. At the very least now that it has such a limiting activation condition that also opens up fairly easy counterplay for the killer, I think it should be 5%. Dark Theory on the other hand should be 3%. Blood Pact and even much more so Teamwork: Power Of Two are awful and awfully gimmicky perks that could also do with a buff or two.
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ya, they over complicated it when everyone knows a 4.6 killer runs 115% and survivors run 100%. All the math was needed was to add 5% not anything that guy was doing.
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MFT was busted cause it had an unlimited duration if they just made the duration only last 5-10 seconds like most haste perks and addons it wouldn't have been as big of a problem. Now they're giving status effects perks (Hindred, Blindness, Etc) for Survivors to use against Killers i want the Killer version of (Balanced landing, Lithe, Sprint burst) as a perk already. Imagine the Fear if Nemesis dropped from a second floor window and just mad sprints at you cause he had balanced landing
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So... bloodlust.
Which has no exhaustion mechanic, doesn't take a perk slot, and is effectively infinite until you get a hit.
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