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Maybe it's just because I don't play SWF, but to me I feel The Survivors aren't as OP as many claim
There are two things that Survivors use in order to protect themselves: Stealth and looping. As it currently stands, both of these options are being nerfed to hell.
Stealth- There are so many perks and ways for Killers to find Survivors now. They are required to work on very noisy generators. Crows and tracks expose them. Finding Survivors is a complete non-issue for a Killer.
Loops- Just like Stealth, there are so many ways you can counteract this now. Enduring, Spirit Fury, Bamboozle, Brutal Strength. So many Killers that stop or ignore loops in Nurse, Legion, Clown, Trapper, Hag. Hitboxes feel especially BS, with the amount of times I've been hit through pallets that I have CLEARLY thrown on the face of my Killer, or the numerous times I've been sniped 5 feet from a vault.
To me, I just don't see why Survivors can be seen as the advantageous side. And I'm not saying this as some salty Survivor main, I play both sides and have gotten Rank 1 with each many times. I just don't agree with the whole "Survivors have it easy in DbD" perspective that seems to be the consensus. Survivors have always felt considerably more difficult for me to play.
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its mostly swf who are toxic with flashlights and ds. But most of the time when I play killer I rarely get those kinds of players so idk why people make such a big deal about them
maybe it gets worse the higher ur rank I’m only a rank 16 killer
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It may be because you do indeed play solo, which is quite a bit harder than swf. You don't pick your team and you can't communicate what you're doing, where you are, and so on. If the killer is camping or leaves you, you can't say to a group of randoms. The coordination makes swf worlds stronger than solo play and you don't all have to be amazing survivors to feel the benefits of being able to communicate and the coordination that comes along with that. Ultimately it's a 4 against 1 and if you can tell the people you're with "he's on me"/"he's off of me," that's really strong.
For the stealth remarks, survivors have so many more stealth perks/options available to them. Scratch marks an issue? Two perks can get rid of them for a short duration and one can lessen them. Issues with hiding, lockers hide auras now and there's a perk to hide auras, too. You can bring along perks to quiet the crows or just avoid them so that they don't go off.
Trapper, Clown, and Hag don't stop or ignore loops. If a Trapper or Hag starts putting down a trap to stop a loop, you could always run to the next loop while they're doing it.
This is most likely due to lag:
Hitboxes feel especially BS, with the amount of times I've been hit through pallets that I have CLEARLY thrown on the face of my Killer, or the numerous times I've been sniped 5 feet from a vault.
Which they're planning on bringing in dedicated servers.
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Finally someone on these forums that actually has a brain. I find it hilarious that people still think the game is HEAVILY survivor favored when in reality (trigger warning) the game is pretty Killer favored at the moment. Survivors have been nerfed so many times throughout the games history and killers still find an excuse to claim that survivors are OP in the game.
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I agree
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Exactly
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Lol.
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.
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I would say the game is survivor favored. I don't think by as much as it is made out to be though. There are so many factors in play, that it's hard to say how balanced, or unbalanced the game is for sure.
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It's simple mathematics.
The killer can only chase ONE survivor and keep him off the objectives.
Decent survivor ...like really, just decent, not top player, just average survivor that understood the game... can finish 3 gens when the killer gets his first hook.
From there it only goes down for the killer, because if he camps, he loses the other 2 gens and most likely the gates.
If he does not camp and instead chases, he gives free unhook and heal and restarts the scenario. The survivors lost a little time for the rescue and heal, but hey, they only have 2 more gens to go.
Do you see the problem now @Goldengeartwo ?
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I play solo mostly and I know survivors are more OP than killers, as for stealth you have premonition, spine chill, technician, UE, etc.
Tge anti-loop perks simply make loops more bearable, and bamboozle gives the killer a chance at the shack loop.
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Devs try to balance around below average survivor player, but in a nutshell any non SWF can do the same by following some simple rules.
- Use Self Care
- Spread out
- If not in a chase and healthy, do gens
- If in a chase, waste as much time as possible
- If not in a chase and injured, use Self Care
- Do not make stupid/unsafe unhooks
- Everybody cleanse at least one dull totem
- Break up gens cluster whenever possible
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I play both sides a lot. I don't need a lecture on how the game works.
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Ranking wise, Rank 1 is easy as a survivor. Solo or not. You just have to play substantially more games playing solo as most games end the same way. I also suck terribly in chases and often just give up because i'm being tunneled early. I'm not proficient enough to do 360s because I use a controller when playing survivor due to health issues. Blood Point wise? You're better off playing killer. Buy the Madness DLC and farm with the Doc lol.
If Killers couldn't rely on tunneling, camping and/or slugging then survivors would in fact be OP. Most killers are just bad simply with their way of thinking. So if the upcoming PTB emblem system is put in place, killers will have almost no choice but to not tunnel or camp. Which won't matter, since a lot of players are actually out to ruin other people's gameplay and don't give 2 rice crackers about Rank.
This forum is also a Killer Main haven. Survivors are OP to them if they have any sort of P3 clothing or DLC items. You have an Item? Dodged. Unfortunately, Solo players also have to deal heavily with stupid actions made by other players at all ranks. Which makes that list of "rules" to be obsolete most of the time... Unfortunately..
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Obviously you need it, because you said:
"To me, I just don't see why Survivors can be seen as the advantageous side.
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Survivors have always felt considerably more difficult for me to play."
And that shows that you do not understand the basic gameplay of DBD.
Maybe that's why you think it is difficult to play survivor.
Learn the simple rules I posted above, play with them and if all 4 do, the game is pretty easy for survivor.
Survivor only start getting hard, if 1 or 2 survivor play like potatoes and don't do their part.
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This guy says "use self care" and also thinks that he has helpful DBD knowledge lmao. Rip.
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Yea… because 84% of all survivor player are just dumb to use SC, right? :P
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Yes.
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The forums is killer dominated. Disagreeing with them here is similar to going to a religious place and disagreeing with the folks there.
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Funny, huh?
For over 2 years survivor dominated the forum and trashed down any killer saying something, but that was perfectly fine, huh?
Than the killer learned from it, because the survivor punched through nerf after nerf and now survivor complain, because they can't "win" any debate, because they have no real arguments.
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This game requires the killer to snowball to win. If ever you cluster as a group of survivours you run the risk of losing. Most killers rely on survivours falling for obvious pitfalls. Camping killers will patrol close by rather then hunt leaving outer gens vulnerable but often players will greedily rush the save rather then pop gens to pressure the killer to leave.
Tunneling killers will get barely out of tr range and rush back focusing on removing one player to make the game easier. Most survivours will look at the hooked survivours and unhook immediatly instead of leaving them untill 1/4 of the bar is lost.
Then you have your aggresive killer players who use mobile fast killers and have keen tracking. They will know all the anti loop tricks and will choose there chases in weaker looping areas. These killers are the trickiest as they will pressure gens and will adjust to survivour behaviour.
Its important to read your killer movements and play accordingly. However to many survivours go in with a preconceived strategy that plays into these playstyles.
Survivour is weak in lower ranks definatly but its power in high ranks is absurd (at least early season). Swf ultimatly takes all the challenge of reading the situation and removes that challenge which optomises gens and makes saves that are optomised to give the unhooked safe passage by having allies muddy your tracks and give info on killer movements.
All this gameplay knowledge require survivours to play at an exceptional level which is lost on many players. Too many people treat survivour as an easy mode for dbd. It is easier then killer definatly however assuming saves will be allpwed freely or expecting a killer to adhere to a nonexistent honour code causes many survivours to play into a killers 4k.
Also another note if you have a weak team who is pulling you down and you dont like the fact that you are unable to carry your team against a competent killer then your playing the wrong role or need to recruit excellent teammates.
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Lmao, I have found Killer to be significantly easier to play. Always have.
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The biggest issue with addressing the balance is that the devs need to make it so that chases and gen completion times average out better, so that you can't have 3 gens pop within a single chase, but chases last more than a few seconds. Their general mentality is that making gen repair take too long is the worst option, because of how boring and unintuitive it currently is. This is why killers need (and have been somewhat getting) more methods to decrease the length of chases.
The idea is that shorter chases means more potential for map pressure from killers (especially the ones with abysmal map pressure as it is) to try to narrow the divide. The unfortunate side effect is that comms basically nullify a lot of it, which is why to killers it feels like not much is changing and to solo survivors it feels a lot worse.
Even then, chases arent necessarily getting that much shorter. Killers like billy and the nurse have always had short chases, and even with the plague's "instadown" through puking on a survivor long enough, it still takes a decent amount of time (even longer if the survivor can avoid getting continuously sprayed.)
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Survivor, currently is completely and utterly miserable. They've nerfed them so much because of how strong SWF was. Solo Survivor is not even worth it. The Killers have gotten so powerful all the while, the power gap has been completely reversed from what it was a few years ago.
Post edited by Goldengeartwo on7 -
Please tell me again when did they nerf survivor at all?
For every step the killer make towards balance, they get pushed 2 back by the Devs.
In all the time I play DBD -since 2016- I can only remember TWO patches that had been in overall favor of the killer. Literally every other patch favored survivor and still I hear survivor player complain about "how hard survivor got nerfed every patch".
I call complete BS on that urban legend. It's fake news.
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You clearly haven't read any of the patch notes in the past 2 years or you're an idiot if you think survivors have received zero nerfs for a long time. Give me all the patches that you claim were in the survivors "favor" and I would gladly counter back. It's not an urban legend when it's the truth that survivors have been getting nerfed for a long time and killers have been buffed for a long time.
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Feel free to go over all of it. We -killer mains- have done that already multiple times. I gladly give it back to you that you must be one eye blind to ignore all the nerfs to killer and I think YOU can't read patch notes.
But I give one thing, the Devs don't bring all changes into the patch notes and sometimes they do not mention killer nerfs.
But hey, since you call me an idiot, I am totally eager to keep discussing with you, because you are such a sweetheart, right?
I think there is a "all killer nerfs since release" thread in the steam forum, go over it and enjoy.
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No really, give me the patches. Here's a plot twist, I am also a killer main with almost 4k hours in the game. A killer main that thinks the game is currently killer favored. Also, that post is outdated (the one from Dec 2017), but I would gladly write up a document explaining every single change on that post.
Oh.. wait: https://steamcommunity.com/app/381210/discussions/0/1750106661704236538/
Check that out.
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No really, give me the patches. Here's a plot twist, I am also a killer main with almost 4k hours in the game that thinks the game is killer favored and it's really the truth (why do you think I have 10 upvotes on my comment). Every patch that I've seen has had all of it's "changes" explained pretty well. It just doesn't make sense on why bad killers make an excuse on why the game is survivor favored when they themselves fail to improve despite all the killer buffs. Also, that post is outdated (the one from Dec 2017), but I would gladly go through every change if you want me to.
Oh, wait: https://steamcommunity.com/app/381210/discussions/0/1750106661704236538/
Might wanna check that post out. It has some pretty interesting data.
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This is what I call "A Perfect World" Scenario. Because when you play solo, this isn't ever something that happens with all 4 survivors. Normally, it will be just you doing so. Rank means nothing. People will still Spud4Life at any given second then DC when it doesn't go their way. Killers do it to and have started to at alarming rates lately.
In any of these events, the killer has not hindered in anyway until now. DCing early denies the killer at the very least 3 hooking events. The Killer is now responsible for the environment of the game. Meaning if you play toxic you will get punished pip wise. Same with Survivors. Not doing a bit of EVERYTHING will Depip you now.
It's now in the killers best interest to have longer games, not tunnel or camp.. but they still do it. Just like a lot of SWFs play like dumbasses because GO TEAM!
SWF is what is advantageous, as solo playing is all but. I feel like you tried to omit mentioning that tid bit. The forums is a killer main haven. Has been and always will be. It's just now killers are being held to a higher standard of gameplay. You can't be a douche bag anymore and expect to sit at rank 1. You have to actually work for it, as do survivors.
And btw. I read that list of 'killer nerfs'. Removed the ability as Pig to drop someone behind the exit gate with a reverse bear trap on to kill them? They added an indicator when someone is put into Freddy's dream world? They fixed Machine Gun Myers and Huntress? Oh say it isn't so. lol come the hell on man. Almost every single one of those changes was necessary.
Meanwhile it has become increasingly harder to play solo. So please, don't try to throw all survivors under the bus when you are talking about people who SWF and play like toxic little shitheads. Meanwhile, every single solo survival perk has been kicked in the teeth "cuz SWF bad".
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As solo I like that there are multiple methods for a killer to find me. They cant use every perk so figuring how they are tracking the team becomes an important aspect of implementing perk counters. Its good that stealth isnt a braindead safety tactic.
As for looping; if the zone is strong enough you can waste the killer's time and they may drop chase, but I prefer to lose line of sight and force them to start searching again. Most of the time looping is just a stale tactic for weaker survivors or tiles.
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Also, I feel like many survivor perks that are not originally unique to survivors (Like Lightweight, Deja Vu, etc) are much weaker than the widespread perks versions for killers, like Entity's Whisper, that perk is nearly OP against me, because once the Killer can hear the moans of the entity, they search everywhere for survivors, and can tell when survivors has gone away from the area. There are also many advantageous perks for killers that can be easily obtained, but for me, only useful ones are Plunderer's Instinct, Lightweight, Kindred, and sometimes Resilience.
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This game is very survivor sided, and anyone arguing otherwise doesn't know how to loop correctly and has teammates that aren't working on gens. 75% of the pallets in this game are completely safe for survivors if you run them correctly. And many SWF don't even heal or bother looping, because mathematically they know the gens will done before it will matter.
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Very accurate.
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75% is a bit inaccurate, but the game is survivor-sided. (Solo for the most part survivor main)
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two wrongs do not make a right.
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Firstly The guy is literaly listing the fixing of infinite (or change that have been made to fix infinite) as a survivor nerf 3+ time in his list
fixing exploit aren't nerf, they weren't suppose to exist in the first place
Secondly, more nerf doesn't mean jackshit when half of them are slap on the wrist
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The problem is that balancing the game around solo survivors will make SWF very strong, close to unbeatable. Then taking away the option to play together will most likely cause negative review bombs and people quitting.
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"This is what I call "A Perfect World" Scenario. "
Actually with your very first sentence you made everything that follows meaningless.
Survivor bring that pseudo argument over and over again.
But you can't balance a game around player just playing plain bad.
Sorry, but if they can't play well, they deserve to lose.
It's again the weird survivor logic that anything survivor related has to be balance around bad teammates.
Are you aware what that means when the team is actually good?
On the other hand most survivor mains want killer related things to be balanced around the best skilled player imaginable.
This double standard is just plain WRONG. There is no to argue about it.
Either both sides get balanced for top player or neither.
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I could list all the nerf made to the survivors in the last year, but so there is no worse deaf than those who don't want to listen.
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Someone made a killer nerfs thing on steam and the base nerfs (not counting killer/perk specific are larger than the list of survivor nerfs. (I don’t have the link)
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They aren't overpowered, killers just like to claim that to get them nerfed because they aren't good players themselves. SWF is also not as big of a problem as they say, but it does increase the power level survivors have. Solo survivor is a shiteshow every game.
The best solution is to bring solo survivor up to the same level as SWF since the gap is far too high, and then give the bottom tier killers more buffs to compensate. They don't seem to like that idea for some reason, however.
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You're wrong. The game is pretty killer favored with all the buffs killers have been getting ever since the game was released. I know how to loop correctly and from what I've seen as both mainly a Solo player and sometimes SWF, I do have teammates that work on generators. Not sure what you're talking about in the SWF part (because both things of what you said on healing and looping isn't true), but whatever.
80% of killers (or anybody) that think the game is currently survivor favored either don't know how to play killer optimally, they camp/tunnel survivors for no reason, or complain about survivors when losing the match when they themselves couldn't apply pressure (boy oh boy have I encountered this so many times).
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You do realize that most of the reason many killer players think killers are underpowered is BECAUSE of their inability to apply map pressure, right? Not as a player, but mechanically. Some killers (mainly M1 killers) need to devote too much time and effort to a single chase, or have telltale signs that they are in a chase and give other survivors the go ahead to rush gens.
There's a reason empathy got its maximum distance nerfed at tier 3, because it was amazing at assessing map presence in addition to knowing where injured survivors were. For example: If you saw the haze around another survivor's status, and they got hit, you knew it was freddy and you knew exactly in the map where he was. This removes a lot of map pressure on the spot since he now has to either break away from that chase and look for other survivors to apply pressure, or continue the chase and hope he downs the survivor before 1-3 gens pop.
Killers like nurse, billy, and spirit are considered as good as they are because they have a good ratio of chase time to map pressure. When killers like the clown or cannibal have to sacrifice map pressure to be able to even down people, it completely opens them up to gen rushing. Myers and the wraith are a bit of an exception to this, since they CAN use their stealth mechanics to apply hit and run tactics (moreso wraith) but they still fall victim to loops so securing downs (outside of Myers T3, in which his stealth is gone completely) means sacrificing map pressure.
TL;DR The best way to actually have a "balanced" killer is for them to have a fair ratio of both map pressure potential and duration of chases.
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I have it, but both are ######### imo.
The survivor one is biased because it's trying too hard to prove a point by compting exploit fix as nerf and the killer one is a direct respond to it and, therefor also compte exploit fix as nerf to killer
The only thing both list proove is that if you are looking for ghost, you'll find them.
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Maybe you can show that in numbers, but not in quality.
A lot of survivor "nerfs" are a "slap on the wrist" at best, while killer nerfs mostly happen by swinging the nerfhammer.
Survivor mains usually only see their nerfs as "hard" and downplay the kilelr nerfs, while in fact it is really the opposite around.
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Psuedo argument? lol what the #########? What you described is absolute BS and can only be readily established using voice comms and SWF. This has absolutely nothing to do with playing solo. Like me and a LOT of others do. We are NOT over powered. We have to actually deal with more BS than killers do in the long run. Thus, calling it a perfect world scenario because it forces SWF. I don't even down play killer nerfs and mostly suggest killer perks upgrades and tweaks because I actually play killer and see how much bullshit comes with playing against groups, which is the only time survivors are actually "OP".
I see plenty of killers able to roll SWFs. Why can't other killers? They're either bad or boosted. There is no reason one side should win more than the other. You talk about balance, but Ive never seen you post a suggestion that would help balance out solo playing and playing killer. Because of consoles coming into play, skill is a huge dipping scale, mostly because of using a kb/mouse vs a controller, which can actually make a world of difference. But Normally, on PC, some Some killers are leagues better than others... Then you have just pure luck.
What I find funny, is people abusing mechanics and memorizing flaws and using them advantageously and calling it skill. If you ask me, SWF should be scrapped and completely revamped. The developer gives next to nothing reward wise outside of playing like a dumbass and exposing yourself to the killer when you should be hiding and doing gens.
Eliminate looping and survivors are sitting ducks. Hide in lockers? Cheesy. I get no great thrill out of looping around the killers shack or a single tile because it breaks LOS. Thats no skill and a really ######### thing for the developer to implement because they cant think of a better system. I'd play killer more often but it's the same #########. Loop, Blind and run away to another tile with pallets, because that is all the developer has given survivor as tools.
Would you like me to post the list of killer ideas ive been gathering for the past year and a half? You wouldn't call me a survivor.
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The devs outright refuse to alter generators, goals, or their functions for survivors in any, way, shape, or form.
So their only other avenue is to tank the ability and tools for survivors to actually... you know, survive...
They basically designed themselves into a corner, because they can't undo how auto-win camping 1-2 survivors is.
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Block/nerf infinite.
Nerf to exhaustion perk.
Nerf pallet (system and number)
Nerf flashlight
Nerf healing
Nerf sabotage, BT and now DS.
This is only the stronger nerf/buff to survivor, i'm not saying that most don't deserve the nerf, but stop complain that game is survivor side.
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I would actually really interested in you balance ideas.
But on the other hand, playing "perfect" (like you call it), does NOT require SWF and/or voice com.
If every survivor plays well and is not fooling around and doing dumb crap for longer periods of time (sitting in a corner, jumping from locker to locker; those typ of players), they can perform like I explained.
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