I'm really getting tired with anti pallet ranged killers
As the title says, this is just tiresome and boring at this point. I don't fully understand the new killer's abilities yet but what I do know is that like many of the other recent killers pallets offer little value and distance serves almost no purpose. I throw a pallet and this new killer still hits me. I make distance between this killer and get hit from a spell a mile away. I'm just over it. Its the same thing over and over again just with different visuals than the last killer.
What does everyone else think? Am I the only one that feels this way or are you seeing this trend continue and growing tired of it?
Comments
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Technically, Vecna can be dodge easily, but there's some new thing I don't understand
I got two Vecna who can summon there's squeletons, and hit me immediatly with his knife (like knight, he can double hit you), and when I try myself the same thing, I have a cooldown of three or four second before I can use my M10 -
Mage Hand is definitely quite the dangerous ability. If you think Vecna will use Mage Hand, don't drop the pallet. That's the tip I can give you.
But I would argue that Vecna is one of the fair anti-loop killers that actually has counterplay. You do know you can crouch under his Flight of the Damned spell right?
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Crouching dodges the skeletons and the cooldown is rather big... If you see him place them he is easy to outplay, if he places them without line of sight it gets trickier, but you can throw him off with unique pathing.
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Nope but I do now. I still think its annoying that pallets seem to become increasingly less valuable the longer this game goes on. When you play against Trapper, ghost face or the Spirit for example you really see the value of pallets. As far as ranged attacks go, I really don't like them. I think in a game where a survivors main thing against the killer is to run that distance should always offer value. I don't think any ability should be able to down you from range except for Huntress.
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I mean that's a fair opinion, I just disagree with this. I think pallets still have value against killers like Vecna, they just aren't too strong either, like they can be against M1 killers.
I also don't mind ranged attacks personally.
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You think Pallets give you value against Spirit?? On a normal map there are like 2-3 pallets than can hold a good Spirit... Other than that the best play might be to go down under the pallet and get saved by your teammates because otherwise the loop is heavily favoring the Spirit... There are many killers in the game that do in fact get hindered a lot by pallets, even stronger one, but for Spirit most pallets don't really matter.
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I think its pure M1 killers the one that have far too much troubel with pallets. If you play in pallet city (the meat plant) a survivor can easily take a path with 5 pallets on them and make you chase for a gen and a half pretty much by holding W and throwing pallets, and pure M1 killers like ghostface or trapper to say 2, have to break pallet after pallet after pallet while the W holder sit safe at a distance.
The exact same resource (pallets) is considerably stronger against some killers or weaker against others, so in some maps it feels unfair as the killer, and in others it feels unfair as the survivor.
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I somewhat agree but when you chase normaly as Ghostface you are already making a mistake, you are a stealth killer, use that aspect...
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you feel the value of pallet against trapper and ghostface because they are terrible chase killers. you can keep both of them in chase for tons of time.
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I don't see anything wrong with having to change your strategy based on the killer. Or figuring out what works best against each killer. That's part of the fun.
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tbf… pallets are way too strong as they are now, they stun WAY of the the zone they should, its enough that the killer walks past a pallet (not entering the area it covers) and they would still get stunned.
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Do you want killers like old skull merchant when they don’t have any chase power and patrol gens?
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It doesn't have to be one way or the other personally I want more high-skill ceiling movement-based killers like wesker, billy, blight and oni.
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Aside from spirit your post just shows you like to loop m1 killers, which is fun tbh a power trip is always fun but the fact new killers arent as useless as trapper or gf prob does annoy people who enjoy dunking on m1 meme killers.
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Very well said.
Mage hand is the strongest chase ability he has.
However, it is partially countered by one of the magical items from the chests and heavily punishes thoughtless gameplay.
Survivors can't just drop pallets mindlessly against Vecna. He will punish that kind of gameplay. Pallet play against mage hand is full of Mindgames and thinking, which I'm personally a really big fan of.
Flight of the damned is countered by crouching, positioning and any form of elevation if the iridescent addon is not in play.
Fly is there to catch up, block windows and map traversal.
He can be oppressive in chase but also has long cooldowns after every usage of his spells.
If he used any of them, you don't need to worry about it for at least 38 seconds.
He is pretty demanding to play at higher levels and has one of the most complicated powers in the game. Both to learn how to play and play against.
All the items and spells are a lot to take into.
You wanna know what you can do as a survivor against Vecna?
You can teleport mid chase to the opposite side of the map, turn invisible, see his skeletons when casted, see the orb when casted, see Vecna flying and get haste.
He's been out for almost 24 hours. We should all give it some time.
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But Vecna has something like that with fly being a chase tool to bodyblock pallets and vaults.
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On a 38 second cooldown xD How often will you use it in a normal match? Maybe around 10 times? And unlike the other killers mentioned before you cannot just reposition if you went to the wrong area... I don't think he is comparable to them under that aspect.
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Of course it is much weaker, but it is still there.
If it where at the same level, the other 3 powers would be overkill by a long shot.
Same can be said for mage hand and flight of the damned.
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I would still compare fly rather to Wraith, you can use it similarly to him to bodyblock windows or pallets, but more often then not you will get a hit out of the power usage. Unlike the before mentioned killers.
My point was to compare his flight to the before mentioned killers the cooldown would need to be lower to be available more often and usable more regularly and it would need to be able to get a hit out of it just like those abilities are capable of, because that is what makes them out.
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Just shows how outdated the old m1 killers are. Reworking perks doesn't help as it affects all killers then.
If only there was some way to prevent perk stacking…………. Oh wait there is they just cant be bothered adding a max "use" to perk categories.
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Oh yeah, the good ol "but ghostface trapper and pig", definitly a good argument there
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Hey, Piggy is better than those in chase.
Then they would need to adjust the cooldowns separately.
I find the cooldowns on mage hand and flight of the damned to be fair.
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I don't know, I think 30 second each would be Allright, maybe even less on the other two spells... The sphere could have 15 seconds and there would not really be an issue with that.
I don't know about Flight of the Damned, on one side it is easily dodged by crouching on the other hand it would be annoying if it was too spam able...
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The power creep for Killers is getting a bit daft at this point in my opinion. Chucky (pre-nerf) and Unknown arguably had/have too many strings to their bows already, but this is next level. Why does this guy need 4 powers? Quite a lot of Survivors struggle when the Killer has one power, never mind 4. I think mage hand and fly alone could win him a decent number of trials against Survivors like me. And I'm just a bad Survivor with a thousand hours, so can you imagine what it must be like for a new player to face a Killer with a power this complicated and difficult to counter? There will be a lot of completely new players going against Vecnas already fairly proficient with his powers, because MMR is not really a thing in DBD.
I dunno, maybe I'm just burned out on the Survivor side of the game, or I'll just never be good enough to pass the threshold where it's no longer mostly a frustrating experience for me. But I'm tired of the seemingly endless patches consisting of very strong new Killers and/or huge buffs for the older ones. Some of the buffs have been necessary, but altogether it leaves me with the impression that the Killer side of the game is the priority and getting much more attention from the Devs at the moment. I mean, of course there have been some Survivor improvements, like the anti face camp and anti 3 gen systems, but they very rarely make an impact on most trials.
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I think the clever usage of the spells, regardless of which one should be prioritized over spamming.
That's why I deem the cooldowns to be rather fair right now. A survivor only has to deal with one spell once per chase. There should be an achievement when one outplays a spell.
It would be pretty awful to outplay mage hand with a clever mindgame just for Vecna to have it up again at the very next loop.
I know that 30sec is not that fast but I think I would need to see it in action.
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The reason this happens is because when the devs make m1 based killers that have powers that delay the game or force survivors to not do gens, they complain about it. See:
- Trapper
- Paying attention to your surroundings and removing traps
- Wraith
- Paying attention to your surroundings and keeping yourself healed
- Freddy (before he was useless)
- Removing the dream world with the clocks
- Pig
- Removing the traps
- Legion
- Mending
- Plague
- Cleansing at shrines
- Blight (minus hug tech)
- Fastest map traversal in the game
- Nemesis
- Zombies
- Cenobite
- The Box
- Sadako
- Removing condemn
- Knight
- Chasing 2 survivors at once, using guards to break things etc.
- Skull Merchant
- Survivors need to do drones.
Every time they make one of these killers where the counter to them isn't to just shift+w to a corner and hold m1 on gens, survivors complain and the killers are either nerfed, or left in weak states.
- Trapper is still useless
- Wraith was nerfed multiple times because people complained about it
- Freddy was gutted
- Pig is the only one who got anything decent recently
- Legion is still in a horrible state and perks constantly get nerfed because of them
- People STILL refuse to just cleanse against the damn plague and then complain about being injured the whole time
- Blight has been gutted multiple times at this point
- Nemesis zombies are still terrible and he still has to hit you 3 times for some reason
- Any good gameplay around the box for pinhead was completely nerfed and made useless, and the rest of his power is barely a power.
- Sadako has been reworked multiple times because people refuse to do tapes
- Knight is still horrible because they refuse to lean into the power of chasing multiple survivors, guards will never catch anyone on their own. Leading to the most boring playstyle being the most encouraged and viable.
- People still rage quit against skull merchant despite the fact that her power is so watered down now that the only "power" she really has is stealth and the fact that she gets random movement speed increases unexpectedly.
The reality is, the way this game is balanced is around time. Everything revolves around time, so a killer's power either needs to:
- Buy them time in the chase
- Buy them time outside of the chase
In the chase has to mean anti-loop. There is no way around that.
Outside of the chase is forcing secondary objectives to get survivors off of gens.
So, if people complain about anti-loop powers. People complain about game delay powers, they complain about stealth powers, they complain about traversal powers. What exactly is a killer power you would want to go against, that you think would be fun, that would actually lead to a competitively viable killer?
5 - Trapper
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I mean realistically he has two spells that need to be outplayed, one that basically cannot be and one that is a 50 50 because flight is mostly up to him I guess... We will have to see, but I think the cooldown of the sphere at the very least could be lower.
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A bit off to say people refuse to cleanse against purge and calling her power a secondary objective... If people cleansed against Plague every chance they got the killer would have an even easier game... Whereas against the other killers there is not much of a downside to do the things you listed aside from time loss. But cleansing against Plague has to be a conscious decision every time because of the buff she can pick up after you cleansed.
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Not cleansing is what leads plagues to getting 4 downs immediately because they use addons for free fountains. So you infect everyone, use a fountain, and suddenly everyone is downed.
If you stay cleansed, yeah she gets her offensive power more often, but your aren't injured, and you can pallet stun her out of it.
But lets not argue over a single killer when i listed a dozen killers
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Kinda but to call Vecna a movement-based killer with a high skill ceiling would be a stretch. It does not open up loads of possibilities in the same way Weaker Bounds or Blight Rushes do which is what I want in newer killers new ways to play dbd core gameplay loop.
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I didn't say he is movement based. He has a movement spell as part of his power.
Vecna does have a high skill ceiling though. Mage hand - mindgames, fly vaulting and bodyblocking, negating magic items by clever use of the orb, reading what items the survivor could have based on the hud and zoning / using elevation with flight of the damned to get hits is a lot to learn and master.
This is a very complex killer.
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Not you alone. First they add a ton of killers who ignore pallets, ie the only way survivors have to defend themselves, and then they complain about the rising amount of survivors going next on the first hook.
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Speaking as someone who has hated most of the killers that have been released starting from Knight onward, I don't agree. Vecna has counterplay that actually rewards the Survivor for understanding how his powers work and what they should to do against them, "counterplay" beyond 'leave loop' or 'hope the killer misses'. The loot item to counter Mage Hand is a massive help, but not mandatory imo. I've only had a little bit of time against him on live, but I don't feel the buffs have changed the equation too much for the Survivor side of things.
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Most killers don't ignore pallets, they just have ways to counterplay pallets so they might get a hit. They certainly don't just ignore them. There is a difference. Nurse, now she completely ignores pallets.
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Yes absolutely. Spirit is fun to play against because it adds an extra element to the match that doesn't feel overwhelming. Also pallet stunning a phasing Spirit is very satisfying. It also just feels good to know a pallet offered value in a situation that would've otherwise got you downed. Throwing a pallet then having the killer go right over it or damage you through it is very annoying.
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Well that's a hard disagree, if the Spirit is good you are not going to get a stun, she will hear exactly where you are, walk around and hit you from behind. She moves so fast, if you drop it she can also just walk around the short side of the loop and still hit you, and she hears when you move away… So while this might work against weaker players against a really good Spirit you will just get domolished.
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Getting a stun on a good Spirit player is very satisfying. Getting downed on the other side of a dropped pallet that should've offered protection value is just annoying.
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The point is though, that most pallets don't offer protection against Spirit, if she knows what she is doing... You are not supposed to win the pallet against her, and can you really get annoyed when you were not supposed to win to begin with?
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Greeding a stun on some killers is a good investment. Greeding pallets against certain killers is dumb.
Adapt your playstyle to the killer you are facing.
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The problem is without the pallet you often times have no other option. You'll get downed either way. The point is the value pallets used to offer against killers has been going down with the constant release of killers who can interact with you even with a dropped pallet in front of them.
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