People are using Vecna wrong.
FotD is a free hit on people vaulting things, they are locked in space and are high enough, learn to time it and stop wasting it. You can also bodyblock when flying, which is situationally useful to stop some loops, but in general you should be trying to get value out of it from bypassing vaults instead of using it for mobility. Mage hand should be used with the perk to make it lift pallets faster and it should be used strictly to lift, holding is way worse and often results in you continuing to be looped unless you time it very well on the right pallet. The orb can be used both to catch back up to people you hit easier or to scout gens, but that one is hard to mess up. Your hitbox is bigger than you would think as well, so lunging will catch a lot of people off guard with how far it goes similar to freddy. Enduring pairs with mage hand pretty well but you don't necessarily need it. Hex builds and hoarder actually work pretty well on Vecna too, especially when paired with bag of holding. Forcing people to waste time on more things when being punished is nice. Also, mimic hits can proc perks, even on hit perks like third seal oddly. It must count as a special attack? But either way, you can pair it with things like third seal and blood favor.
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Here are two examples of using FotD the correct way IMO, though you can get much better with it and make it instantly hit as they vault too.
For zoning or hitting in these clips:
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It's still kind of absurd that Vecnas signature spell/ability from the tabletop which required a DC22 save, apparently, can be avoided just by crouching. IMO it should be able to hit while crouched, making the real counter play to it spotting the gaps between the skeletons and getting in them to avoid it. Make it take some actual skill to dodge.
The most use I've gotten out of FotD so far is with the addon revealing the aura of survivors that are near misses.
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If any of the killers lived up to their full lore potential in DBD the games would end in like 2 minutes
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Yes, I know Vecna has his powers restrained by the entity via the Mark of Negation. What does that have to do with my opinion on how I feel like dodging FotD should work?
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I mean the crouching is kind of goofy but I just showed how you can guarantee hits with it, just learn to time and space it when people vault. That's still pretty high value.
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Problem with making this ability able to hit while crouched is it basically becomes a better Artist Crows. Vecna would literally just be a better Artist, with map mobility and far more versatile anti loop.
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Artist can totally secure hits at any loop without needing pallets or windows by placing a crow and making the survivor to chose into going into the crow or Artist herself. Even if Vecna FotD wasn't crouchable is still dodgeable due to the tiny hitbox the skeletons have.
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Yeah, but it's a scatter shot that doesn't have to account for:
- Needing an initial hit with a single crow.
- Wait through a 5 second cooldown
- Set each shot of the scatter again individually over 1.5s
- Trying to set the shots while accounting for a survivor juking.
- Having only seconds 8 seconds to repel, giving a 3 second windows do all of this before the opportunity is wasted.
Vecna's Flight of the Damned is far less effort on his part to throw. Obviously it doesn't have the same zoning power as Artist, but it's does the job of blocking off a window at the right time, and can surprise through walls (which Artist crows can't really do), while also being far less effort to use...
So it can't be made too good, because Vecna would be able to achieve similar effects to Artist, while having way more tools and options in his kit.
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But then, you should think that Pyramid Head is actually a better artist right now… As he also has a ranged power like Vecna that does go through walls, is not crouchable, it does wound the survivor and is totally spammable..
In fact if you made Vecna spell not crouchable, i think it would be kinda similar to PHead, with the difference that PHead single hitbox is far wider and the attack comes faster. Also he doesnt need to wait 38 seconds to use it…
I still think that even if you made it not crouchable, as a ranged attack Artist would still probably have the better one.
Edit: Also lets not forget that Artist power goes through all map, so it can be used to harass survivors that are on gens on the other side of the map.
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Well, I do think that Pyramid Head is better than Artist, but in relation to this specific debate, Pyramid Head's immediate Lethality is obviously a plus, and the fact it's a much shorter cooldown between strikes is also a plus. Where it falls off is its a narrow shot that can be relatively easily juked, whereas Artist can (with some setup) create a very difficult to escape scenario for the survivor.
Artist Crows have the benefit of allowing you to zone off a pallet/window, to get an easy M1, but you can achieve a similar effect with Pyramid Head by faking the PoD and forcing the survivor to peel off the window/pallet for a free m1. Artist can't reastically reactively pull up a crow and shoot at a window or pallet like Pyramid Head can, she kinda has to take some time to set up her Snare first.
How this all relates to Vecna FotD is he doesn't require any of this set up, he can just throw it. It's got a long CD, but he also has options like Mage Hand and Fly to work with pallets and windows as well, as its not particularly clear which one he is using.
I will accept FotD is weak, but we have to be very careful buffing Vecna, because he is a complex character that can spiral out of control. FotD seems to me to be a tool to mess with survivor looping parhs and timing. It works right now as a "don't vault that window/throw that pallet" tool, and also has potential for sneaky snipes through walls if you can incorporate undetectable into your build.
Maybe it is a little too easy to avoid right now, but I think making it non crouchable would make this spell an excellent anti loop/windiw/pallet tool that would push Vecna into being oppressive.
The only buff I want on FotD in these early days is change the Skeletons look from the neon candy purple they are right now to the looks he has in his character preview screen.
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It also really strong to place the skeletons directly into the survivor, not sure if it's possible to react, but it's really hard for sure xD
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FotD forces inefficiency and demands respect by crouching, I don't see the problem. I'm liking this guy
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Theres 3 different ways to use FotD.
At loops you can hug the wall and use it, making it so they spawn on the other side. Where this comes in handy is the skeletons spawning inside the Survivor usually not giving them enough time to react unless theyre actively looking out for it
You can use it once theyre going towards a window al though this is a mindgame since youre recovery is a bit too long for a reaction
And finally, if a Survivor is on an elevated surface, you can use FotD and theyre only option is dodging. Because the hitbox is a bit lower they cant crouch it, and its not like Artist where the birds go over/under elevations at the start of their flight. This works best if a Survivor is going up stairs, or even small elevations like the cart on Chapel , or the pallet at main entrace on Asylum.
As for his other abilities Im not so sure other than Fly being a very good tool at catching back up after a hit, but Im pretty confident with FotD.
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I've played about 8 games against bots who mostly crouch under them, but as the OP said, at vaults and pallets, its an easy hit. Firing them across the map is hapless. Would be better if you could have aimed them vertically to get those in elevated positions or those that crouch.
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