Just looped a killer for 5 gens and lost anyway. Why?
Can someone explain to me why we have a game in which one side if "good" can get 2500 wins as Blight, 1300 wins as Nurse, 800 wins as Oni, 300 wins as Onryo. All in a row.
But the other role can't get not even 2 wins in a row? With the highest Solo Q escape streak ever being 34 escapes and that was back when Self care and Dead Hard were OP and through tactics like keys + letting teammates die to get hatch?
Why the game right now has me looping a Killer for 5 gens and have my 3 troll teammates tbag him in gate and leave me to die on hook, getting a win at my expense, and a lonely obsessed killer getting the satisfaction of ruining someone else's game?
In literally not a single other game if you play well your team can win while you get a loss. Imagine if in Lol or Call of Duty if you had the highest kills and did the most in the team, you lost while your teammates got a VICTORY screen. It would be pathetic, it would be stupid, it would be terrible game design punishing people who are actually good and put effort into winning.
Yet somehow we have that in this game. You can be extremely good, and you're still gonna end up with a loss screen, the opposite side is still gonna end with the satisfaction of killing you, and your troll teammates who did nothing the whole game but press M1 get an easy win. Amazing game.
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Because matchmaking does not work properly and does not put people of equal skill together in one game, and also soloq is the weakest role in the game. I have to assume the question was rethorical, as the whole thing is pretty much known to everyone by now.
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Well the problem is that dbd does count 3 escapes as a win for the team but as a loss for the one dead survivor.
In lol or other team games you, as an individual player, can die 50 times and still if your team finishes the objective (Nexus for example) first, the whole team wins.
Iirc, the devs have stated that dbd is more like a 1v1v1v1v1. It doesn't really make sense to me but it's what the devs have in mind for the game.
In my opinion, there should be categories like "distraction" and "occupying the killer" contributing to an overall goal for survivor so player that keep the killer in chase for a long time or stay on hook against a camper get recognition and rewards with the rest of the team.
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Don't forget on top of that you get humped if the killer finally catches you.
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I don't mind carrying team mates sometimes, because there's definitely games that I feel I shouldn't be in where team mates have to carry me. So I can't complain too much about that. But the game should recognize and make it worth your while. Like an XP bonus or something. We already get emblem points for the length of time we remain in a trial, so surely it can't be hard to detect if someone spent most of that time in chase. Any team mate of mine who runs the killer all game will always get unhooked and helped to escape, even if I have to sacrifice myself.
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If I hold the killer for 5 gens and my team escape, that's pretty much a victory in my book. If I follow your logic, we shouldn't go for suicidal saves in endgame either, as others survivors would "steal" our victory.
The 1v1only serve for MMR, as a survivor, you only represent 25% of you team, so holding the killer is quite a win as a survivor alone is clearly at disavantage.The game doesn't even tell you that you loss when dying, you just have a "loss" sound when you didn't make enough points for pip.
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You are not meant to loop a killer for 5 gens and live lol. There is a reason there are 4 survivors, if you are taking 100% of the heat you are probably not getting out. Being good at looping is one part of the puzzle of winning and being good at survivor, but if you focus entirely on pissing the killer off and wasting all of his time and not letting other teammates take some heat you are probably dead.
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Well that sounds like you lost a game because your teammates didn't help you at the end.
You looped the killer for 5 gens and progressed the game to endgame. The part where your "team" wins is when a door is open and 3 are out. If you and your "team" or only your "team" wins are 2 different things.
Dbd is not a game where you play as a real team: you don't get a role, you don't get any ways to callout things, you're just 5 players in the same match with each of you trying to escape or kill the others. You don't even have a result-screen as a "team".
At least thats the case in solo-q in swfs it's different of course.
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You might as well just consider yourself the martyr for the team. Sometimes you just accept you cannot control the team you get.
I am usually in the same boat in Solo Q being the one who takes chase all game so the team can get out. I learned it also satisfying to see your 3 teammates escape through the gates alive because you did your part.
I'd rather have that than give the killer a full tour of the map and 0 gens are popping. That ######### is soul crushing.
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Quite simply for a 4vs1 game to function, it should be almost impossible to win the same game in a 1vs1.
You have to be, by the very definition of the game, reliant on the actions of teammates to survive... there is literally no change you could implement that wouldn't make that true without fundamentally breaking the game.
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Maybe not to survive, but you could change the win condition more towards a your team needs to win/escape and not you individually for it to be a win, basically force players into playing less egoistic. Debatable whether it would be a good addition, but you would not necessarily need to break the game entirely to do so.
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It is a survival horror game though... being selfish and looking out for your own skin is a more viable means of ensuring your own survival is it not?
Were all of this real, true to horror, the heroes die, the cowards live... Not necessarily saying the gameplay is better for this... but for the theme certainly is... and without the theme what we basically have is a glorified game of online tag...
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that is a very easy awnser. On one side you have 100% control of your results (killer ) . On the other no matter how good you play you're still only 25% of your team . I don't see whats so hard to understand about that.
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And it is fairly obvious that we need a certain amount of altruism because otherwise not all gens get done, people die on hook and everybody just sandbags each other so one might get hatch... Truly something we should want...
As far as I am aware the mmr already takes into account how many teammates made it out when calculating gain or loss..
Overall in dangerous situations working together is the only thing that makes sense and you need to rely on each other, because no one can just make it on their own, bring selfish would just lead to being excluded from the group because that person would be a risk towards the safety of the group. That's basically what society does all the time, it tries to ban behaviors that are a risk to the group, selfishness does not help that goal, not in dbd and also not in real life.
I am not saying you should necessarily die for your mates, but even that might be the correct play at some point, but you should make sure that no one dies on hook when you don't have a first hook stage yet... It is pretty basic and should be rewarded or even somewhat taken into account when it comes to calculating the mmr or the outcome of the match as a win or a loss.
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Because as Survivor, it ultimately matters very little what you do, it matters more what everyone else does.
That's why the role has never been appealing to me.
You could have the best Survivor player in the world make no mistakes, but they can still die at four gens if their team isn't up to snuff.
As Killer, I control my own destiny. There are comparatively, very few reasons why a match would be out of my control.
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Yeah I totally get you, truth be told my own shortcoming in this game tends to I'm too much of a team player and tend to be more altuistic than I should be...
However the way I look at it is, realistically if you want the best chance of survival, convincing other people you're a team player long enough for them to risk their life for you, and being able to be selfish at the opportune moment to save your own skin is the best strategy to survive. A traitor who plays their hand well enough to the point that it isn't obvious they are a traitor will most likely find the most success...
It's like that hypothesising what you would do in a horror scenario question, and I very much doubt I would survive most of them... but that's the nature of these kind of encounters...
It is rare the truly brave players live... it is also rare the obvious cowards/untrustworthy people live... it would often be the person who is able to cut losses at the right time and knows when to save their own skin over someone elses that gets out alive. Not that it's a good thing... but it's likely the truth. 😏
I think Schmuckles proved this by playing Distortion and Sprint Burst as his anti-tunnel build instead of Decisive and OTR. This build basically near ensures you are never the first player found/caught, and thus are not the one who gets tunneled... it's not a direct screwing over of teammates, but it is a decision that puts someone else in the firing line ahead of yourself... and that will often give you much better survival chances 😁
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In the short run maybe, in the long run it will go wrong eventually.
I mean that's basically what you should do, no taking unnecessary risks and knowing when to not try… Nobody gets a better result when you try to safe against the facecamping bubba with noed.. But that is also implied by playing in a way that increases the odds of your team getting out.
That fully depends on how good of a player you are… If you are the best looper in the team then that decision was god awful, otherwise it might just be.
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Well I mean. This game isn't as comp as the other games you gave an example. Dbd is still casual at its cote. And personally, I'd feel so good about myself if I looped a killer for 5 gens and all my teammates made it out. I'd feel so powerful!!
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Because certain killers are better than others? It should be obvious really. The highest SWF Escape is 383 and was ended by a stream sniping nurse.
What’s the highest Huntress streak? 101 if I remember right. Tricksters is 36, Slingers is 35. It depends on the killer and survivors. If Nurse didn’t exist those survivors maybe could’ve hit 1,000 but she is just insane.
Post edited by HexHuntressThighs on2 -
Imagine securing your team a win and still trying to present yourself as the victim.
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Not sure we're talking about the same scenario... I'm referring to each game being a brand new soloQ game with 3 random other players each time... being the altruistic team player in this scenario will lose out to the pragmatic player, working together enough to get help, but knowing the moments when to sacrifice other players for your own benefit...
As a simple scenario we can refer back to the OPs post... they looped the killer for 5 gens... could the other 3 survivors have gone for the save and had a decent chance of getting them out vs. A Blight? Sure. Do they have to? Absolutely not... and in regards to their own survival trying to save them is the worst decision they could make over just leaving.
So my point is the goal of the game for survivor is survival, and that should be the goal. It's a valid mindset to say once the gates are open, your contract with the rest of the "team" is now effectively null and void.
Of course a lot of us don't want to survive from someone else sacrificing themselves... a lot of us would rather die trying to save them instead, which is another trope of horror... knowing you could have escaped, but can you accept the cost? Especially knowing you COULD have potentially made a difference? The decision to go back and help is yours, and yours alone... but ultimately that decision to go back must be worse for you than just leaving...
So I suppose what I'm saying is... the decision to go back is given meaning by the fact you could and probably should have escaped... and I think the theme of the game irreparably suffers if you remove the idea that going back for the save is a personal sacrifice.
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I don't think Trickster is 36… Considering the guy that ended Hens' last streak was a Trickster I would assume the guy is good enough to make it to 200 and above.
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The most updated streak sheet I could find was 36 but it’s a year old
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Even if it is a new solo group every time, eventually you will run into players you already had or you will have a steam profile full of people warning others about you because you threw them under the bus.
Ofc they could, but the issue is currently you don't really get something out of being altruistic in that scenario, mmr rates it as a loss and you don't get any other benefit for trying or not, so an incentive to reward players in those scenarios would sure be nice.
I mean in the end you can play in whatever way you want, but the question is if that leads to fair results to be taken into account when talking about balance of the game. In somewhat ruins statistics when you don't take saves that are possible rather easily, because you rather want to bm at the gate.
I would not connect that to horror specifically, because in any other team game no matter if horror or not it is the same. Do you go into that teamfight or not in Dota? Are you trying to get out or trying to use another ability to possibly help your team. The same goes for counter strike or what not, it is just a general thing about games that you need to evaluate whether or not to go in or not.
I don't think the theme of the game holds up too well anyway and there should definitely be an incentive to work towards altruism in that scenarios, because otherwise all you will hear is that soloq is so egoistic and other complains, which would be fair given that there is no incentive to not be.
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I don't know if that guy does streaks, but considering he was good enough to beat a 4 men comp squad on coms, while they did an escape streak it should be fair to guess he could have gone way higher, shall I link you the video where hens mentions this guys name?
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I should think he's higher.
Clown has a four hundred something game win streak.
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I think there is also at least a 206 or something win streak on nemesis, and both Trickster currently as well as Huntress are far stronger.
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400 on clown is crazy💀 I wonder why Huntress can never get a streak anywhere close to that high?🤔
hmmmmm…..
That list I was looking at is definitely outdated then because it has clown at 80 something
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Because there are 4 survivors. The game isn't designed for one survivor to run the killer indefinitely and then escape, you're supposed to be caught at some point and be rescued.
The biggest factor in games like this is not going down at endgame, because by performing too well in chase, you put the killer into a position of desperation and they will almost certainly camp you.
Do not run the killer for 5 gens unless you are 100% sure you're not going to get caught at all.
Also, zero kill games should be extreme outliers, as should 4K games be. Statistically someone should die just about every game. To not be that someone, don't be the one in chase when the final gen pops.
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MMR is grossly flawed since it isn't a team metric. The raise/decrease applied to each person should be based on the number of Survivors killed/escaping, and not whether you personally were killed or escaped.
Right now the best move for both sides is to 99% their objective, then force the opponent to 'win' in endgame. Survivors are best served popping all the gens, opening all the gates, then hiding/dying in endgame. Killers are best served 2-hooking each Survivor, letting them open the gates, then forcing them all out, even if you have to pickup/drop at the exit gate itself. It gives you the knowledge of a win, but gives you the MMR of a loss.
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Sounds to me like you won. You need to stop thinking that because you died n hook and 3 people escaped that you lost. Survivor is a team sport, you win as a team, and lose as a team.
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because maps
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Well firstly you've got lots of those win streak numbers wrong and exaggerated.
Secondly, survivors can go on long winstreaks like that as well. Bar like Nurse/Blight but those are exceptions to normal game rules.
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It’s almost like Bhvr was working on a fix for that💀 Since they aren’t going to remove indoor maps and half of the other maps in the game with so much clutter they were gonna speed her up to help out but it got axed for no reason💀
It’s also funny that Billy and Bubba have higher win streaks when people try to say they are more map dependent🤔 Every new piece of evidence points to the fact that she should not be moving at 77% when holding a hatchet.
I bet money that when the new kill rates come out she will still be in the bottom 5. Even with the amount of people who throw on hook against her.
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Sorry to say, but being good at running away from the killer will only carry you so far, by design.
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he got 150 wins or something. I am not surprised. trickster is really potent now if the player is really good. very difficult to loop for prologue period of time. i like playing vs all ranged killer so it doesn't bother me.
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Was it a skilled played if you got caught
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