I get that killers are released strong
But, why don't survivor perks get the same treatment? You have been making killers exceedingly powerful for a few years now so people are encouraged to buy them. Yet, the survivor perks are still as lack luster as they have pretty much always been. Aside from a few notably strong perks that we get maybe once a year, there is very little reason to buy new survivors.
I don't have a problem with killers being released OP, but maybe think about doing the same for survivor? Am I crazy? Do we not like more money?
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Do you really think vecna is op right now ? Do you think vecna perks are any better than the survivor ones ?
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I think he is unquestionably better than most killers and will likely receive a round of nerfs, just like the several killers that came before him. Killer perks being good is irrelevant to what I am saying, they are just icing. When was the last time you bought a dlc for the survivor perks because they were good?
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The new survivor perk are good, not too strong, but not as weak than 90% of the other perk
Behavior is afraid to release strong survivor perk right now, since a lot of complain from the past for some overpowered or "too strong"
Killer need to be as strong as 4 different people, so it's normal than him, and her perk, are more strongerIt's too soon maybe, but weave and languid are good, very good, the first one just anihilate lithe or other perk like them (except sprint burst) and Languid, you need to see this perk in action and give you a lot of information, too much information even
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Vecna really cant compete to most of the a tier killers
People complain about a thing that came out 4 days ago, they didnt even try to learn how to counter it. Play him, you'll see he definitely has some weak spot and most of the time, if you dont have mage hand, you are just a regular m1 killer without any real power
Weave is fun for meme build at best, its not a perk that i'd call strong. Languid can be annoying, sure, but i wouldnt bring that over an actual useful perk.
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I am not complaining that he is strong, I wouldn't care if he were to be released equal footing to Alien or Chucky. What I do care about, and what I am complaining about is survivors do not get the same treatment. BHVR have put in a purposeful effort to make sure killers are strong on release, so people actually get the new killer. But, they do not care whether or not the survivor perks are strong for some reason. They have the ability to nerf these things, they already do this to killer releases.
There is no reason why they shouldn't release at least one powerful perk with each new release.
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You mean perks like backround player ?
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It's a terrible philosophy to release a killer strong to nerf them literally days later.
Sometimes for no reason whatsoever.
This practice reduces customers trust.
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Mft...
The perk literally sold end transmission for months.
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What is that 2 perks in 3 years? Should we throw a party?
Also they literally are already doing what you said. They have nerfed every single killer they have released for the past 2 years.
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Oh yeah, i wasnt playing from knight to unknown so i haven't dealt with that #########show
Looked """fun""" tho
Post edited by EQWashu on2 -
Sure was…
Post edited by EQWashu on0 -
It is bad to release perks, that are so problematic, that they need to be changed as much as CoH for example.
Its also bad to release a killer just to nerf them days later. This is consumer unfriendly practice and should be criticized.
On a side note. Vecna is not even top tier. H struggles hard against coordinated groups that use the magical items effectively. A nerf is literally not required except the enduring stuff. Most people I've encountered don't use the tools given to them effectively, therefore Vecna seems very oppressive. This is not something bad. It's been 4 days since release. Nobody expects people to put 3/4 of their day into dbd. People will learn over time. Just like they did with Unknown.
But hey. At least Blight can just ignore pallets right now and is not getting killswitched. Where are the priorities?
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Again they are already doing what you said, but just for killer and killer perks. That has been the game plan for quite a few releases at this point, and it's not going anywhere. As long as we are going to do that for killers, I feel like it should come to survivor too.
You are speaking as though this is a hypothetical, there are actively releasing OP killers and nerfing them in the next patch.
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What killer was truly OP?
Furthermore, what I say is, that this practice is not good in general. That this has been going on for this long is not something that should be embraced but something that should be criticized.
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I don't see a problem with having perks actually worth purchasing. And I don't see a problem with them getting adjusted if they are too strong.
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When was the last time you bought a DLC for the Survivor perks because they were good?
I bought:
- Gabriel Soma: Made For This, Troubleshooter
- Nicolas Cage: Dramaturgy, Plot Twist
- Ellen Ripley: Chemical Trap
- Alan Wake: Champion of Light
- Sable Ward: Wicked, Strength in Shadows
- Aestri Yazar: Bardic Inspiration
A perk does not need to be S-tier to be good or usable, we've gotten a lot of good perks that has made me consider purchasing DLCs, they are not insanely meta defining but they are more than good enough to consider using.
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There's four survivors and each survivor can bring a copy of the perk. The reason why survivor perks can't be too strong is because of numbers.
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Actually, I don't have enought blood point for Vecna, even for getting him at level 15, so, i'm gonna wait
But now that he have less cooldown for his power, he is not as weak as you say, but, I remember him having all his power at the beginning…
It cancel dead hard, if you have a problem with this perk (since this perk is just..) If you play Blight, Oni, Nurse or whatever, yeah, Languid is just some niche perk, but with a killer who are just "M1 killer" (I don't like this term) that can help, and got caught when playing with friend with this perk0 -
So you would buy a game, which is awesome for 2 weeks and then many quests are cut because some people deemed them too hard, making the story make no sense because of it?
People want to know what they are spending their money on. To spend your money on something, just to know that you can only enjoy it for days before it gets ruined is horribly unfriendly towards the customer.
I'm not ok with it and many others are not as well.
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I mean they leave killers in OP states for at least 3 months before they do anything to them (unless they are very OP). And with the way gaming works in the modern era, getting more than a week out of a game makes it a very good game.
So yes, I would purchase a perk to have fun with it until it got nerfed. Most people play games like that today.
The argument that survivor perks are bad because there are more of them in the lobby is a bad argument. Then delete perks or reduce the amount we have. Most survivor perks right now literally save you seconds of time. Where killer perks traditionally add several minutes onto the game, or significantly reduce the time a chase takes.
Why would you ever spend money on a perk that reduces the time it takes to do a gen by 4 seconds. It kinda feels like they do new survivor perks because they have to, not because they want to.
On that list I would consider one perk to be meta (in that everyone should run it), the rest are just okay. That one perk I would list as meta also got nerfed into the ground, so it would no longer be on that list. I also bought Nicolas because I thought his perks looked fun, not because they were particularly strong. Plot twist is my favorite perk in the game, and I still wouldn't put it on a list of meta perks for survivor.
The point I am making is, it's obvious they design survivor perks to peak out at balanced. Where they design killers to at their worst, be balanced. You can also see this in tuning when it comes to killer and killer perk changes. They almost always do very careful tuning so that a killer still remain strong, or so a perk still remains usable. But when it comes to a survivor perk nerf, it almost always instantly kills that perk.
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What killer was truly OP?
If you like the way, gaming is heading, then good for you.
I like to "own" my games and maybe play them again from time to time. Replayability is something that should be celebrated.
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Historically, survivor perks were released OP and nerfed years later.
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New killers are almost always released very weak and end up needing significant buffs and reworks later.
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- for a person playing both roles, overall killer perks are better than those for survivors. when someone complains about the monotony of survivor perks, I understand that they are a person who only plays killer. to understand 100% what I mean, it was enough to play both roles in "chaos shuffle". After the release of Alan (a licensed character) and his perks... I had lost all hope (except "champion of light" which isn't great anyway ) but I was amazed by Sable, now her perks are all interesting (obviously after the "invocation" buff).
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When survivors get great perks, they take months to get nerfed. I mean, just look at MfT. This one perk basically sold the entire chapter and was kept broken for months. On the other hand you have Vecna, who is mostly underwhelming and about to get nerfs anyway.
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Funny to forget about Ultimate weapon, who take approximatively the same amount of time before a nerf
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To be honest, I never considered UW as that strong. Yes, it was good but also overrated. The topic was also about survivor perks and UW isn't among them. I'm quite certain about that.
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The last time they did that for a survivor perk was MFT and you know how that turned out, they probably don't want a repeat
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This perk was strong, each killer I face as survivor have this perk, it was more stronger that any other aura perk
And when Playing oni, with this perk, it was practically an insta win
But again, same thing about MFT, lot of people complain about, and some people, don't find her overpowered, yeah, strong, but not as super powerfull
What I want to say, is just that, dev don't want to make powerfull perk for survivor, just for trying to avoid some "drama" like MFT, boil over, mettle of man… Because, each times they try to make something… a bit special, the perk become one of the most used, and get a lot of complain
So, yeah, they make the perk from survivor underpower for seeing if it's good or just make some adjustement, and the opposite (even if Vecna in the PTB was not that strong) because, the killer need to be oppressive enough against 4 different people3 -
It's weird that MFT is considered OP, when at most it increased chase by maybe 30 seconds. When you take into account that it caused people to stay injured it probably was a net neutral in the long run. Where as things like scourge hook or pop increased the time games took by several minutes on their own. MFT at it's peak was a high A tier perk, where things like DH for distance and DS were S tier perks. I think survivors still have S tier perks, but we haven't had a released S tier perk for a very very long time.
For me an S tier perk is one that will get substantial value in just about 99% of games. I think the only perks that fit that bill right now are Windows of Opportunity and Off the record. The closest 3rd perk to being S tier right now is sprint burst, the drawback it brings causes you to lose a lot of efficiency, which keeps it in the A tier for me.
The argument I am making right now is that most killers and perks being released for killer are released at an A or S tier level. And after several months they get nerfed to be more in line with the average. Where as most survivor perks are released at a B or C tier level (this is compared to other survivor perks NOT killer perks). Even in this very thread you have mentioned survivor perks that were so bad they needed to be buffed. This has been an ongoing thing for quite some time now. Why?
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i'm against remarks like this, let's let them do their balancing properly. though i will say they should release more ptb patches where they change things before ptb closes so they don't have to tweak new content as many times and as quickly.
as for perks, neither side got a meta shaker so idk what you want to hear about this. illusion is a new pebble, not my cup of tea but still nice perk variety and i'm happy it's not just another lesser/better version of some other random perk and bardic is i'll say a new addition to hyperfocus builds and might see use in such builds in the future.
also people won't play a killer they don't like just because it's "op" but they will (regardless of sides) use perks if they are overtuned ie. ultimate, mft, coh etc. so screw op perks that promote sells, respectfully.
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The amount of people who played Wesker, Chucky, and Alien would beg to differ. I played during release of the Alien chapter, 90% of my games were against her for a week straight. People absolutely did exactly what you claim they wouldn't. You could argue that Wesker was fun, sure, but he has always had a very high kill rate.
I would like to point out I was more talking about killer strength compared to what survivors get. I don't think the killer perks need to be good for people to buy the chapter, just the killer. Which is what they mainly target anyway, that being said killers tend to get at least one decent perk every time a killer comes out. Where survivors would be lucky to get one strong perk in a 6 month cycle. And even if that perk did end up being good, the amount of complaining on the forums usually get it nerfed before it even leaves the PTB.
The chances of a survivor pack coming with a strong perk is close to zero. Where the chances of the killer being strong or at least one perk being strong is nearly 100%.
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The last survivor perk that they made which was good was Made For This. The perk didn't even last a year. I wonder if they'll ever revert or do something as it was good improvement for survivor in regards to tunneling.
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Only one of Vecnas perks isn't niche and that's Languid Touch. Even then, it is situational as it relies on survivors to be running exhaustion perks to get the most out of it and the one exhaustion perk it doesn't counter is Sprint Burst, one of the most used Exhaustion perks alongside Adrenaline.
His kit is fine IMO; Mage Hand takes timing to get right because if you lift it and you don't get a hit ASAP you just gave the survivor a free reset on the pallet to stun you with and if you block it too soon, it will wear off and the survivor will be able to drop it to either stun you or force you to either break it or go around it. FoTD is trivial to avoid being hit by just hitting CTRL or whatever the button on your controller is to crouch on the console versions. Dispelling Sphere is used as a tracking spell and negating the survivors magic items during a chase and flight is just used to close the gap and crossing a vault with it ends it immediately even if it was just cast.
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You completely forgot about Wicked as well as the entirety of Nic Cages catalogue of perks.
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Really cause camping and tunneling still happens in roughly 60%+ of my games. So survivors got nerfed with little to no adjustment to the meta of deleting one person.
A Vecna nerf has already been confirmed, he fits exactly what I am describing.
No meta perks to be found. Killers very often get a perk that can be slotted into the meta, survivors are lucky to see a meta perk once every 2 years.
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Where was the nerf confirmed? Because the news section of the forum is complete garbage and hasn't seen a new post in a year.
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Peanits put up a post saying they were reverting the mage hand buff. As well as hitting the addon that caused the mage hand to be faster. They are also going to make it so the mage hand won't still work if Vecna is stunned.
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And survivors wonder why the only Killers seen at high tier are Blight, Nurse, Artist and Spirit…
'cause their constant crying gets everyone else nerfed if they can't instantly win loops and chases against them.
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Sure, it had nothing to do with mage hand being a guaranteed hit every 40 seconds, and it likely still will be even after these nerfs.
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So in other words no matter what the survivor does, if you don't mess it up, you get a hit right? That's called a guaranteed hit brother. In the hands of a good killer Vecna can down someone nearly for free every 40 seconds. And that's with only 2 out of his 4 powers.
Post edited by EQWashu on0 -
Yeah, it's not a guaranteed hit. I've used it and still had survivors outplay me and avoid the hit.
So drop the strawman argument and try a real one.
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Then you aren't using it correctly, I recommend watching people use it. There is currently no counter play.
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bardic inspiration literally got buffed to be better. A gen progression perk got BUFFED. The last thing this game needs is for gen progression perks to be buffed even in compensation to base game mechanics (cough cough deja vu).
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Bardic is only good if people are nearby to get use out of it, and it only becomes stronger than just doing a gen yourself if there are at least 2 people nearby. So you have to be turbo inefficient for the perk to be better than just spreading out and doing gens. I call these type of perks "bait" perks, because you actually do gens slower by using the perk.
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Because overpowered survivor perks can ruin the whole game. At least if a killer is overpowered, that does not effect the balance of other killers.
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I would argue that the state of the killrate and the meta of regression gaming being left the way it was for soo long did more damage than all of the OP survivor perks combined. The game has never been more killer sided than it has been in the past year, and yet asking for good perks for survivor is apparently too much.
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There is counterplay; you just apparently aren't good enough.
Though I'm sure you have no problem with just how survivor sided the new map is; the portals allow legitimate infinte loops for survivors to use that screw over M1 Killers. There are too few hooks in the dungeon, making it easy to turn into a dead zone.
The only advantage the Killer has is that both gates are incredibly close to one another and even then you can't stop multiple survivors from opening both at once.
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I guess well disagree until you decide to look up some good videos of the new killer.
I have a feeling the new map has a higher kill rate than you would expect. There are no god loops, nearly every pallet or gym is a weak style. There are plenty of dead zones outside. You can literally pull survivors out of portals if you time it correctly.
The first few times I played it, it definitely felt like it did not favor the survivor team. But, after having played it a few times, if both sides know the map well, it's fairly even. I don't like the map as a survivor, but I would prefer it to some of the other very killer sided maps.
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Getting free progress off of skill checks is already good. You can then get an average of +1% progress but then it can get STRONGER and STACKS with great skill checks. It's only a bait perk to people who are bad. If you're already teamwide resetting then theres literally no downside to using it.
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