bardic inspiration should be 2%/3%/4% instead of 1/2/3%
currently with the 1% bonus, one needs to get 17 skill checks to get any value (because of the 15seconds of playing the lute), and with the 2% bonus 9 skill checks are needed for any semblance of value, which is absolutely atrocious as it's almost impossible to get that amount of skill checks on a gen. with the 3% you need 6 skill checks which is already more manageable.
perks are supposed to be helpful, not an actual detriment. Please just buff it by 1% so that getting value is actually a possibility
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Or better yet actually have luck have a factor in the rolls
Also have Bardic give a natural % to luck (1%)
Having better luck should control outcomes encouraging a use for this dead stat.Example
Teir 1 2% (total luck granted in game)
1 5%
2-10 25%
11-19 45%
20 15%
Teir 2 3-4%
1 5%
2-10% 10
11-19 50%
20 35%
Teir 3 5% or higher
1 1%
2-10 5%
11-19 50%
20 44%3 -
Nah, just let me play even on cooldown (0% effect).
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Correction:
- 17 skillchecks across up to 4 players.
- 9 skillchecks across up to 4 players.
- 6 skillchecks across up to 4 players.
This is already a very good perk if you only use it on just yourself and 1 other player, especially if either or both of you have a toolbox, which has a 40% chance of giving you a skillcheck each tick.
This is only buff needed.
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Maths isn't my thing but would it work better with something like Deadline?
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I don't think we need more tools that can be stacked with other repair tools for strong effects that way, we already have a bit of an issue with that and I don't think adding more is the answer. If Killers aren't allowed to stack regression to superslow the game, why can Survivors stack progression to superspeed the game?
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Agreed!
Let the people lute!
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If the killer is letting you get value out of 4 person repair bardic inspiration they are literally afk.
3 people getting value means you are playing badly in 90% of situations.
This perk should be getting value from 2 people at most against a competent killer player.
For reference, there is an 8% chance every second that a skill check appears. Thus for 2 people repairing there is a 15.36% of a skill check appearing per second for both combined. When 2 people are repairing you can repair for a maximum of 52 seconds before the gen is complete.
With that in mind here is the probabilities for the various numbers of skill checks for 52 seconds of repair.
Without a toolbox, the probability of 2 people repairing a gen getting 17 skill checks in 52 seconds of repair is less than .143%
This estimation actually overestimates the likelyhood of success because each skill check reduces the amount of time you spend repairing which is less time to get skill checks, and each skill check also creates a short window where it is not possible for more skill checks to appear. So in reality it is even worse than that
Even with the 2% bonus there's only a ~40.5% chance of getting positive value and that positive value typically is not going to exceed more than 10% gen progress which is about 5.3 seconds saved. This of course does not account for the fact that you must spend 15 seconds playing the lute, essentially meaning in every case except getting the maximum bonus, this perk is a downgrade.
Even in the most ideal scenario where you give this buff to 2 people and then split up and do different gens you waste a huge portion of the buff travelling and run into hte same problem. It's basically just objectively worse than equipping hyperfocus instead
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As a killer main, I would like to see this perk buffed because it's hilarious.
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Great analysis, just wanted to add the chances to get raw value from this perk is worse than you'd think because:
- Not only does time to complete the generator decrease by 0.9 seconds per 1% the skill check itself gives, but the skill check itself takes 1.1 seconds to complete, and then there's another ~1 second cooldown between skill checks I believe. That means:
- That's at least 3 second reduction of 'N' for each Good skill check you hit with +1% from Bardic; or
- At most a 5.7 second reduction of 'N' for each Great skill check you hit with +3% Bardic
- The Bardic Inspiration buff immediately drops off anyone who goes further than 16m from the caster, making the 'ideal' split up scenario impossible (therefore everyone must experience the repair penalty to use the buff)
Due to #1 above, while I have no idea how to calculate it with a dynamic 'N' variable in a non-tedious way, my personal experience has me believe that ~5 skill checks is the average for a duo generator. If that's the case,
Most of the value of this perk, I think, is just intended to be for bursting generators down. Basically it's a fancy, complicated, and harder-to-use Potential Energy perk. As if Potential Energy wasn't niche and hard to use effectively as it is lol
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I've said it before and I'll say it 100x over - I really wish they would consider a dynamic cast time for the perk based on how high you roll. It would make the perk much easier to use effectively and obtain consistent value from it.
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EDIT:
Just wanted to make a correction that 17 skill checks as a break even point is only valid for a solo generator.
In reality, if you cast with the intent to do a duo generator, you're avoiding a 15% repair penalty on both yourself and the person doing the generator while you perform. So in that 15 second cast time, your partner will have completed 15 charges (16.7% of a gen), whereas if you duo'd for 15 seconds you'd only do 25.5 charges ([0.85 * 2] * 15), or 28.3% of a gen. The difference in % completed is 11.6% (28.3 - 16.7), meaning the break even threshold for a duo generator is 12/6/4 skill checks for 1/2/3 bonus progression on Bardic, respectively.
3 - Not only does time to complete the generator decrease by 0.9 seconds per 1% the skill check itself gives, but the skill check itself takes 1.1 seconds to complete, and then there's another ~1 second cooldown between skill checks I believe. That means:
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Sure all valid arguments, and your leg work there does give more insights about when the perk is better to use than not, and is to be appreciated...
However in the same breathe, you CAN equip a toolbox, and you CAN get 3 players affected with the buff by finding a duo working on a gen togther, or at the start of game if survivors spawn together. In these scenarios performing bardic inspiration is absolutely very high value, and if you have 3 players with toolboxes affected by Bardic Inspiration, gens absolutely fly.
You can't take a suboptimal loadout for the perk or use a worst case scenario as a baseline and then say the perk is bad, unless avoiding those suboptimal loadouts or conditions are not realistic scenarios... but they are realsitic. It's really easy to take a toolbox, and it's not that unlikely you can get a performance with 2 players nearby. I did it the other day in soloQ when 2 of us came to unhook an ally at the same time while the killer was chasing elsewhere, so while my ally healed, I completed the performance.
Also ofc Hyperfocus is better in isolation, that goes off great skillchecks, Bardic Inspiration goes off standard skillchecks and effects multiple players... you can't realisitically expect BI to outperform Hyperfocus on you as individual. BI means you can use perks like Deadline and get more consistent value out of Bardic Inspiration. Though I will grant Deadline is a bit of a throw... but...
The elephant in the room is you can even stack Hyperfocus on Bardic Inspiration to get way more value out of both perks. If you hit Hyperfocus you gain the benefit of Bardic on top, which is insanely good, and the downside of missing a great skillcheck with Hyperfocus as they get harder is more than made up for by the greater skillcheck chance, which allows far greater value out of bardic inspiration.
In fact I'd venture that running Hyperfocus with Bardic Inspiration and a toolbox is actually pretty damned strong in the meta, and if you get the 2% buff, or hell the 3% buff then you're cooking on gas, and that one BI pretty much gives you an insane snowball power that simply can't be ignored.
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It's also important to add you can cancel Bardic Inspiration, and the dice roll happens at the start of the animation. If you get a bad roll that isn't worth it, you can simply cancel it and go straight back to repairing gens, but stick it out if the roll is good.
So the argument that getting the 1% wastes your time, doesn't really hold when you can sacrifice maybe 3s of your time to test the waters and see if its worth it, and cancel if not.
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it is not time efficient in a lot of cases due to walking distance to have multiple people affected by the perk. That is why SkeletalElite uses 2 people doing a gen. His actual times are wrong because the other player would be doing the gen for 15 seconds but that is besides the point.
Making the song last for less time like 10 seconds instead of 15 would probably make it better as stand-alone perk but some people use the perk for emote aspect of it. Maybe if you cancel the song, it refunds 50% of the cooldown. I don't know.
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Yeah he's absolutely right, but my whole point is this set of calculations is the perk in isolation... the perk isn't in isolation in the game, there are other perks in play. The evidence presented here is the minimum value scenario.
It is ignoring everything you can take with it to gain additional value. Toolboxes and Hyper Focus shore up the weaknesses presented here very well.
You can take Prove Thyself and save back an additional 1.5 seconds for that player while you perform the ballad, which knocks it below costing you 10 seconds after accounting for everything, and then you're enjoying the buff for it thereafter, and carrying the effect over to the next gens.
Plus as we've already identified, if you find a duo on gens (or are in a SWF and angling for it), the potential value you can get skyrockets with this same setup.
Post edited by UndeddJester on0 -
Legit this is the only reason I use this perk. The buff isn't that consistent.
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