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Is it just me or are killers playing way more toxically since the updated?

Soundwave_11
Soundwave_11 Unconfirmed, Member Posts: 13
in Feedback and Suggestions

I'm not sure if anyone else has noticed, but since the update, playing Survivor has been horrible. I keep getting killers who tunnel and proxy camp the hook. While yes, it does sorta waste their time proxy camping, I feel like it kinda ruins the experience…

Does anyone else feel the same, or this just a me thing I've noticed?

For context, if it helps, I have 1000+ hours.

Best Answer

  • VantablackPharaoh91
    VantablackPharaoh91 Member Posts: 580
    Answer ✓
    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3739038#Comment_3739038

    Finally someone sane. It's true, Killers have been made stronger so that overall, it's more balanced - and that takes getting used to. It will be a while, but soon people will understand

    I play Survivor side too. 60% of the time in fact. I play Survivor more than I play Killer most of the time. I play Survivor to hang with friends and don't care if I win or not, I play Killer for actual fun because to me that role's just more fun. I get to do more cool plays, it's more fun to me.

    You are designed to lose 40% of the time as Survivor. That's not that far off from a 50% winrate. A 60% KILLrate not WINrate (not the same thing) is a 2.5k - two out with the other two having some hooks. So a tie. The game is balanced around a tie. The game and the Devs WANT you to tie. 4ks and 4 man outs are intended to be rare; you should be aiming for a couple out/1-3k each round, NOT 4k/4e. If you are in that ballpark of some escaping and some not, then congrats, you are decent at the game, it's fine, let it go. A 40% winrate is still great, and in fact the 48% you see 4 mans get is the outlier, proving that a coordinated SWF is nearly as strong as the weakest Killer. Weaker Killers do not stand much chance in that situation, which is why we see Killers lobby dodge groups like that. It's an issue.

    The reason Devs want a 60% Killrate is to make Killers be even overall and have basekit good strength, so they may not have to crutch on perks like Pain Res all the time. They are still working on SEVERAL Killers to make this be the case, there's a handful of outliers (three last I checked) that are still struggling and a couple more than just need a few more buffs to make them closer to 60%. The majority of Killers are fine so they nerfed gen regress.

    The problem is that doesn't help those Killers that do still need gen regress. Frankly, they did all the right things together at the wrong time - changed gen regress and did a few tweaks for Killer, and then also increased sabo and some gen progression perks for Survivor. This naturally leads to a slugging meta and a lot of "throw it in, see what works" on Killers just trying to make anything work. The sabo buff was an overbuff and what really needed to happen was another pass on toolbox strength/charges overall, some MINOR tweaks to buff sabo slightly maybe and a lot of little nerfs to generator progression, and some looking at the addons for toolboxes. I am of the opinion toolboxes should only do either sabo or progression, not both - and toolboxes are my favorite thing to bring.

    All this buff did was embolden bullies to pick on weak, M1, baby, or inexperienced/rusty Killers who can't combat slugging as well, and nothing for anyone else - everyone else just shoves the charges on a gen, so nothing changed except a buff to one of the most obnoxious sorts of nuisance SWFs imaginable. In light of that… yeah. Of course Killers play nasty, especially weaker ones. They're all super frustrated because it looks like the Devs don't give a damn about them.

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Answers

  • Gmoore23
    Gmoore23 Member Posts: 193

    I personally haven't seen it, but my experience and your experience aren't gonna be the same. Granted, I play killer much more often, but even when I do play survivor, usually it's someone on my team being toxic.

    I'll be honest, I have no idea how many hours I have (started the week Twins came out by coincidence and played on and off up until Dredge came out, only to swap over to PC last December) but on killer side, I do see that games can be a little more stressful if I really have my mind set on a win. And that's heightened when it's a killer I don't have a lot of experience with (heck, I played Oni for the first time on PC last night and I was so happy to have gotten a 2k after using my power in the most mid way possible).

    All that to say, if they really wanna win, the killers you go against might be doing cringe stuff like tunnelling, or they could be doing it on accident - I know I have. But if they're camping or something, that's another problem entirely. Sorry for the long winded answer, it's what I'm best at 😅

  • Nazzzak
    Nazzzak Member Posts: 5,653

    In the lead up to rank reset it tends to get a bit sweaty, that's normal.

  • Soundwave_11
    Soundwave_11 Unconfirmed, Member Posts: 13

    I think @all somewhat answered my question I think. I mean, I generally play more Killer atm, but I am no stranger to playing survivor. I think the best answer is the nerfs? I mean, I play Killer too, and I never resort to tunneling/proxying unless it's by accident (e.g. Survivors swarming), and I've noticed gens flying faster as well. But think all answers are valid. As a survivor it feels like you either get an easy game or an absolutely ######### game, with normal/good games only occurring 1/5 times?

  • SoGo
    SoGo Member Posts: 1,297

    Some people just need an excuse to pour all their rage they bottled up over the years of their father being absent into their opponents.

    The recent sabo changes are a perfect excuse for that.

  • LapisInfernalis
    LapisInfernalis Member Posts: 4,218

    I think it's the same for me so far. But it will increase once the event drops on Thursday because all the toxic players come out of their holes during events.

    But I guess the nerf of Gen slowdown might make some players tunnel more.

    I have 7k hrs.

  • VomitMommy
    VomitMommy Member Posts: 2,257
    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3738226#Comment_3738226

    Wait, how many nickels?

    And strategy would be derank like crazy then tunnel babies…

  • Jaredleto1234
    Jaredleto1234 Unconfirmed, Member Posts: 70
    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3738226#Comment_3738226

    I don't have a computer good enough to record and play. I can send you my nightlight stats if you really want them but I just recently started recording the end game screens.

    Step 1. Only play trapper if you have 2 good addons and one must be "The trapper sack" no matter what. You have two options for the other addon "iridescent stone" or "honing stone". Iridescent stone is going to be better against SWFs or survivors trying to drive you nuts and for that reason it is the safer option. "Honing Stone" will just destroy soloQ teams and is more aggressive in getting quick 4ks against none SWF teams. The reason you must use the trapper sack, is most of the time wasted on trapper is running around picking up traps. You will lose 2-3 gens just setting up your web if you don't play this addon.

    Step 2. Use Corrupt intervention, Nowhere to hide, overcharge, and surge. Corrupt gives you time to set up the traps, on top of either protecting your 3-4 gen or pushing survivors to your web. Nowhere to hide since we have a kick perk it pairs well with Overcharge. Overcharge because you want to be protecting the gens in your web. Surge for the same reason you run overcharge. The only perk here I would never remove is Corrupt intervention, the other 3 can be up to you. I recommend running at least 1-2 regression perks that don't require you to scourge hook. The play-style of iron grasp or Agitation to bring people further into your web can be equally as strong. Just be aware that a lot of times hooking someone in the basement can cause a team to give up and hurt your pips. But if all you care about is winning then a basement hook is almost always an instant win on trapper.

    Step 3. The game started now what? Look around and see what the gens look like, try to find an area with 4+ gens that you can almost entirely kill all looping or escapes. A lot of times if a gen spawned in shack you can immediately setup around that area. The goal is to put down traps in high traffic areas THAT CANNOT BE SEEN or places that ALWAYS kill a loop. If you put a trap in a spot where a survivor can see it on a loop, that's a dead trap against good players. So basically in grassy areas along loops, next to window vaults, in high traffic doorways, on stairs. A trick for stairs and doorways is to place the trap slightly down or up the stairs so that it can only be seen once that player has rounded the corner. If the trap can be seen in the doorway from far away, they will see that trap. Remember once you place a trap you cannot move it, it's important that every trap you place is a good trap.

    Step 4. Don't get too caught up in setting traps in your web, if someone is doing a gen inside your web push them off and prioritize quickly trapping that area. Do your best to both push people off web gens while also putting down decent traps.

    Step 5. Your web is done now what? Easy you just patrol your web and hit people that try to do your gens. If they run into your web keep chasing, if they run away from your web, back to patrolling. You will quickly get the hang of when it's good to keep chasing someone and when its good to go back to your web. Just don't commit to a chase long enough that they could finish a gen or get substantial progress on it while you are gone. If you hook someone away from your web you don't really need to pressure that hook just go back to your web. If you hook someone in your web you can somewhat proxy camp and punish the unhook and in a lot of cases this will result in a free trade. Don't camp so hard that they can pull themselves off however.

    Step. Woweee the easiest win of your life.

  • Jaredleto1234
    Jaredleto1234 Unconfirmed, Member Posts: 70
    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3738200#Comment_3738200

    There are in almost every scenario 3-4 hooks in range of you when you pick a survivor up. Unless you greed for a very far hook, even if someone sabos, 90% of the time a hook is right nearby that you can still reach anyways. The reality is sabo heavily punishes killers who run scourge, and this drives them up a wall. So to sum this up, if you aren't running scourge 90% of the time, a sabo build won't actually do anything.

    Here is something you probably aren't away about, the sabo time is still too long to get a sabo and take a hit. So if the killer is close enough you are in most cases trading to sabo. Making it once again, not worth doing.

    Sabo really only shines in games where all 4 people are in on it. And the more we design games around SWF and killer, the more people will continue to look for other games.

  • Jaredleto1234
    Jaredleto1234 Unconfirmed, Member Posts: 70
    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3738197#Comment_3738197

    Your 4th statement proves that it's extremely easy to do. If you have to put restrictions on killers to make them not get a 4k, you are overpowered my guy. Wake up.

  • Jaredleto1234
    Jaredleto1234 Unconfirmed, Member Posts: 70
    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3738486#Comment_3738486

    How many wins in a row would you be satisfied with until you agree that killer is easy? Is it infinity? I have a feeling it's infinity.

  • KoreWaPantsu
    KoreWaPantsu Member Posts: 79
    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3738480#Comment_3738480

    Whatever makes you sleep at night bro.

    Anyway, back on topic, I understand the frustration of survivors too. So I have to vote up for OP myself. Unfortunately, you can fix the game as much you want, but (unfortunately) people will be people, whatever their role in the game is.

  • Jaredleto1234
    Jaredleto1234 Unconfirmed, Member Posts: 70
    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3738508#Comment_3738508

    I have played 2 games as singularity that would hardly prove anything. I play a ton of trapper, he is the most free wins you could ever imagine. The only times I lose, are if the map is extra tragic for me, or if it's a coordinated SWF that target my web gens. Trapper just happens to be the killer that the community thinks is the worst. If the worst killer can dumpster 90% of the player base, then the game is probably not that hard.

    On the flip side I play 90% survivor and getting 5 escapes in a row would take me a week. I would easily take a bet for 20 trapper wins in a row, before I took the bet for 5 solo escapes in a row.

  • HolyDarky
    HolyDarky Member Posts: 746
    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/416976/is-it-just-me-or-are-killers-playing-way-more-toxically-since-the-updated

    I could ask the same question but for survivors but the point is: There will always be some players that play more seriously because it's their way to play the game. Same with players that play more chill or use creative builds. Some players play to win, some play for fun and chill, and some others for archives. There is no rule or direction how to play as a killer or how to play as a survivor. Of cause many players might like the chill players more than the efficient ones. It is also possible that one side played more seriously due to the look of the otherside or that they used a strong offering or something. From Player A's POV Player B asked for a serious match but Player B don't understand it why Player A played the way they played. It is the interpretation of the otherside's behaviour. You know? I understand the argument from other users that say some players play more serious due to the recent nerf and they try to compromise these nerfs with a more efficient playstyle. However, it can also be the case that you just had bad luck with your opponents. On some days I have very pleased matches with good and friendly players but on the other days my matches are unpleasent and not funny even though I play the same game at the same time on the same server.

    In the end we have to accept that players can play how they want and to some degree we have to accept this. Of cause, just because something is usable, allowed, or exists in the game doesn't mean it is healthy for the game. But this is a different story.

    Also camping and tunnling might not be the beloved strategies on the survivor side but they are not toxic or something like this. If the killer does that they do it because they see it as the best way to win the game. Sometimes it is the right decision but sometimes it is a mistake. In my opinion; "toxically" is an unnecessary bm from the other side like t-bag at the exitgate or hitting a survivor on hook multiple times for no reasons or humble over a downed survivor or nasty endgamechat messages. Something like this.

  • appleas
    appleas Member Posts: 1,128
    edited June 12
    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3738231#Comment_3738231

    5-6 nickels I guess?
    Given how matchmaking works, deranking doesn't even guarantee beginner players


    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3738472#Comment_3738472


    Thank you for the well written explanation. I have my qualms about using Overcharge but it just comes down to preference. I can see that you do know what you are talking about gameplay aside. My only question is, do you bring map offerings?

    I think for your strategy to consistently work, you need to have really good knowledge of how to place traps in every map if you dont use offerings especially huge open ones plus not get countered by one person running a map/following you and calling out your trap spots on comms.

    Your 4k as Trapper claim would be "easy" to someone who's accumulated the know how but definitely not something that can be replicated without putting in the effort to learn the maps.

    But other than that, I can see that you're not just making a sweeping statement to prove a point and I apologize for calling you out on that.

  • Jaredleto1234
    Jaredleto1234 Unconfirmed, Member Posts: 70
    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3738559#Comment_3738559

    Correct, the vast majority of survivors are solo players and the game should be balanced around them not SWFs. Give the killer some extra currency for playing against SWFs and prevent them from losing pips. We SHOULD NOT be balancing the game around less than 10% of the player base, why BHVR thinks it was a good idea is insane.

    It used to be like you said, whoever wanted it more won that game. it is no longer that anymore. If the killer plays seriously and the team isn't a 4 man, he wins 90% of the time. Why would you expect solo survives to keep playing in a meta like this? You would need to be completely brain dead.

  • ExPokemonMaster
    ExPokemonMaster Member Posts: 5

    Ive been running into A LOT of killers slugging the second to last survivor so there is no hatch chance. Like, that's part of the fun imo. Sure it sucks as killer to miss it, but it's a game mechanic for a reason 🤷

  • VomitMommy
    VomitMommy Member Posts: 2,257
    edited June 12
    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3738635#Comment_3738635

    We SHOULD NOT be balancing the game around less than 10% of the player base, why BHVR thinks it was a good idea is insane.

    Disagree, they should just bring QoL features that give soloQ a chance to get somewhat close to SWF power level, of all players are decent.

    No game should be balanced around bad players. Any decent SWF encounter is going to be bloodbath this way and you would see queue times skyrocket, like we have had in past. Before healing nerf queue times were usually around 5-10 minutes while playing survivor for me. Screw that...

    All soloQ issues I have are connected to my teammates, not the killer.

    It used to be like you said, whoever wanted it more won that game. it is no longer that anymore. If the killer plays seriously and the team isn't a 4 man, he wins 90% of the time.

    No, it's still exactly like this and you proved it yourself.

    The only times I lose, are if the map is extra tragic for me, or if it's a coordinated SWF

    It's very simple, if you want to win majority of your games as survivor, then start looking for SWF. If you play soloQ, it's casual.

    SoloQ is equivalent of no tunneling and no slowdown. If you play like this, you are not trying to win.

    We SHOULD NOT be balancing the game around less than 10% of the player base, why BHVR thinks it was a good idea is insane.

    Why not? What pvp game balances around bad players?

    Dota balances around tournament results and it works very well for them. I consider their balancing to be one of best, ever.

    I am fine balancing around casuals for PvE.

    DBD is not PvE game.

  • DocJOrtiz
    DocJOrtiz Member Posts: 9

    As a new PC player still mostly playing on PS5 I noticed the survivors are not as good as on PS5. They seem scared amd very selfish. Leaving team mates behind not wanting to take protection hits, I have been very frustrated playing on PC. This will lead to it seeming like the killers are toxic but could just be bad team mates idk.

  • Perrin3088
    Perrin3088 Member Posts: 7
    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3738043#Comment_3738043

    As someone that almost never runs regression perks and regularly gets 3-4k with 1000+ in killer, I just have the world's smallest violin playing for you.

    Players that are reliant on meta are always hurt when meta is brought back in line. The problem is by always running meta their mmr is higher than their actual skill represents.

    You were playing with a crutch, and it got taken away. learn to stand on your own.

    Ps. I also prefer killer because I don't have to turn off my music, while not hearing is alot more detrimental on survivor.

  • Laendra
    Laendra Member Posts: 93

    I have found that it is especially toxic for the first few weeks after an update when the infrequent players are drawn back in to see the new content. These are typically, from what I have seen, players that are the toxic ones that get their jollies for a few weeks, then leave…

  • Jaredleto1234
    Jaredleto1234 Unconfirmed, Member Posts: 70
    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3738739#Comment_3738739

    Just to put what you said together. You should give up on playing this game on your own and play with a SWF or lose. Is that correct? That's a very quick way to kill a game where most of the players are solo players. I get that you are a killer main but you have to see how this would be extremely bad for the overall generation and retention of solo players.

  • VomitMommy
    VomitMommy Member Posts: 2,257
    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3738946#Comment_3738946

    You should give up on playing this game on your own and play with a SWF or lose

    That's not give up. It's about expectations. I play soloQ regularly, basically whenever is bonus for survivors. But I simply don't care if I die, I just want to get good chase and if someone manages to escape, good.

    But you definitely shouldn't expect to escape all the time.

    That's a very quick way to kill a game where most of the players are solo players.

    Oh really? SoloQ used to be even worse than now. Is DBD dead game? I don't think so...

    Even if you consider this an issue. Fix is not nerf for killers, because you said SWF are able to beat you already. So that part seems fine to me.

    Change is supposed to be QoL features for soloQ, which I will be more than happy to get as long it won't affect SWF.

    you have to see how this would be extremely bad for the overall generation and retention of solo players.

    I have suggested several possible changes to help soloQ on forum.

    But approach keep nerfing killers until soloQ can escape regularly is simply flawed.

  • Pinpointbrute4
    Pinpointbrute4 Member Posts: 1

    I am feeling it too, the camping and hard tunneling. But I can't decide if it's because of the update or if it just DBD going back to what it was before chaos shuffle. Cuz all I played during chaos shuffle was that game mode

  • danielmaster87
    danielmaster87 Member Posts: 9,427
    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/416976/is-it-just-me-or-are-killers-playing-way-more-toxically-since-the-updated

    That's not a word. No, I don't think they are.

  • hermitkermit
    hermitkermit Member Posts: 427
    edited June 12

    Lots of heated opinions here. Mine is that yes, survivor feels really bad right now but not because killers are more "toxic' or because killer players are specifically playing any differently, it's more because BHVR is starting to balance out the killrates to a 60% (I'm not sure if their goal is for all individual killers to have a 60% killrate and not just killers as a whole).

    They're making killers stronger, and so it will take time to adjust to the fact that if you're playing survivor you will lose more often. You are designed to have a 40% chance to make it out (I'm not sure if it's 40% among the four survivors or each individual survivor has a 40% to survive). I know people disagree with that, because they don't believe in statistics, but frankly I find it difficult to engage in a conversation like that because if we can't rely on any actual evidence then it's source: trust me bro and I don't see that as an acceptable way to defend/present a point lol

    I don't think they are more "toxic" but by design they are winning more often which can take time to adjust to.

  • Jaredleto1234
    Jaredleto1234 Unconfirmed, Member Posts: 70
    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3738968#Comment_3738968

    When was soloQ worse than it is right now, just a few months ago? Because, the past year or so has been some of the worst experiences in the game I have ever had. I would have no problem agreeing with you if the game offered in game comms, or some way to interact with your team better. The fact is they do the opposite of facilitate communication, there are tools to actually hide yourself. If you wanted to go out of your way and try and get people in discord, or just in your party, in most cases you wouldn't even be able to.

    If they were to go down a path of increasing communication between solo survivors I would have no problem saying you are right. Unfortunately, the path they are going down is the opposite. Using 3rd party programs and websites to play the game at a playable level on survivor should be embarrassing for BHVR.

    I have no problem with them nerfing SWFs and buffing solo survivors, and I think just about everyone on the forums would agree. Yet they keep blanket buffing/nerfing either killers or all survivors. Which does nothing with the gap between solo and SWF. If I were to have a tier list with Solo survivors, SWFs, and killers. SWFs would be high S, killers would be low S, and solo survivors would be B or even C tier. That shouldn't be a thing, there should be handicaps of some kind to significantly reduce that gap.

    The only arguments I have seen that solo survivors are good, is that streamers do escape streaks. Well if you watched those escape streaks, 9 times out of 10 they run a build in which they plan on letting their entire team die. They almost always use perks to play for hatch or a very quick gate opening. On top of that, their streaks are usually fractions of the games of killer streaks. If the best way to escape in a team based game is to not help your teammates, then there are significant problems with the base game.

  • VomitMommy
    VomitMommy Member Posts: 2,257
    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3739063#Comment_3739063

    When was soloQ worse than it is right now, just a few months ago?

    before HUD changes? HUD was pretty big deal at least for me.

    I would have no problem agreeing with you if the game offered in game comms, or some way to interact with your team better.

    I just want chat wheel.

    If you wanted to go out of your way and try and get people in discord, or just in your party, in most cases you wouldn't even be able to.

    How so? It is super easy on official DBD discord. There is just bunch of rooms to join players. I have used to play there quite a lot and it is still active as far I know.

    If they were to go down a path of increasing communication between solo survivors I would have no problem saying you are right.

    Well, issue is by their statistics. The difference between SWF and soloQ escape rate is minor. Experience is completely different tho…

    I definetly don't think there is reason to make killer's experience worse because of it. Just complain and try to get devs to add soloQ features instead. That's just best for everyone imo.

    I have no problem with them nerfing SWFs and buffing solo survivors, and I think just about everyone on the forums would agree.

    Well, you are wrong about that. But go and try to make a post about nerfing SWF. Don't forget to mention me, so I can get popcorn.

     SWFs would be high S, killers would be low S, and solo survivors would be B or even C tier.

    I kinda agree. It's little bit more complicated than that. You have killers like Nurse, Blight, Billy on same level as SWF, then you have most other killers spread all the way to A, then you have B on survivors.

    That shouldn't be a thing, there should be handicaps of some kind to significantly reduce that gap.

    I have already said I agree with this. Best solution is to buff soloQ. Killers are not affected, SWF are not affected, just soloQ improves and everyone is happy.
    Trying to bring SWF and killers to soloQ level is just going to make it bad for everyone, how is that good idea?

     On top of that, their streaks are usually fractions of the games of killer streaks.

    Because it is complete gamble. Hey if you god-like looper, then your chance is way better. All you need to get is stubborn killer. But still gamble.

    I don't think soloQ is unplayable, it all comes down to what you expect from the game. If your consider game to be "good" only if you escape, then just soloQ is bad for you. Mild shock…

    Also are you sure you want to balance the game around escape rate / kill rate? Because that is not going to end well for anyone.
    In my opinion Artist and Singularity are good killers, but their skill floor is way higher than most killers in DBD. So their kill rates are trash.
    Should they be buffed just because most players are simply not good enough with them? No
    Should survivors be nerfed so their kill rate increase while ignoring killers who already have good enough kill rate? That's even dumber

    SWF and most killers in DBD are in decent balance in my opinion. Probably best we ever had. So only thing you need to do is focus on soloQ and few specific killers. Don't touch what is not broken.

  • Jaredleto1234
    Jaredleto1234 Unconfirmed, Member Posts: 70
    https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3739085#Comment_3739085

    I think 50% kill rate is fair, and right now its much higher than that.