But how many vaults does it have?

The game is a weird design where it's all pallets and few loops and vaults at which point you're either a killer that cares about pallets (Freddy, Pig, Ceno) or you're not (Legion, Xeno, Nemesis) and how you feel about the map is based on that.

So the counterplay is breaking the 20 safe pallets by which time any team with a collective iq over 40 should have 4 or 5 gens done?

I get its fun to practically have loops were you cannot under any circumstance get hit (aside from nurse) but this map has horrible gameplay.

Only way this map is not BS is if you play an m2 killer, it baffles me people who get 4k by plagues, legions or pigs in that map, like they should be professional footballers with those throwing skills, its like a blight losing on midwhich, you require effort to lose that match.

4-5 what were you trying to prove

im fine with it having more pallets but all the pallets are safe and have no mindgame to it with a high amount of god pallets some of these gotta be turned into unsafe pallets

The map is an abomination and should have been changed years ago… Hardly any of the pallets is mindgameable for half the killer roster if the survivor is sentient and you basically have to spend half the game kicking pallets before you can even start to play the game, sure it has barely any windows but that makes it even worse design, because they obviously knew you would have to kick pallets for 5 min straight … Just because some killers can work around it does not mean it is not bad design, because even on those you are basically not looping or anything, you just reach a safe pallet and drop it, some killers can hit you over it, but there are no mindgames, no unique pathing, just nothing.

A cat could unplug your controller and Survivors would die because of it.

So the correct and fun way to play is: predrop pallet→ rotate to safe corner of the loop→ hold the checkspot→ wait until the killer breaks the pallet or continue looping, you are not gonna get hit anyways if you have eyes→ find another pallet (its gideon there are safe pallets everywhere dont worry)→ repeat until gens are done. If gens are not done and you wasted all pallets your team is made up of either AI( and even the bots repair gens) or they were throwing on purpose.

Idk how this is any interesting aside from just having the fun of getting the W.

It's unique map and even it's has lot of pallets I rarely have problems there on killer and win most my game. I also lose most games on survivor there but still have fun.

Way more exciting then ring around the god pallet

It's because the game has almost no reusable survivor resources by design, which is why there are so many pallets.

There's no shack, or even shack equivalent on this map. The closest thing is the freezer room, which is specifically weaker than the shack, except maybe dead Dawg's weird shack.

Other than the freezer, none of these vaults are loopable. There's 2 at a T-L, which is a pretty weak tile and easily playable by killer. One is literally a dead end at an exit, and one is the drop down at the vat. I'll even count the one above the bathroom, which basically forces you into the basement if you take it.

So the game is designed to be a map with almost entirely consumable resources. Removing pallets would mean they have to add some loopable vaults. Pallets are one use, vaults can be used repeatedly.

This is also a map that is full of dead ends unless the killer decides to open walls, basically forcing pallet drops by design as well.

Nah capping hard there's plently of vaults survivors can use like the upstairs boiler vault thing is awesome reusable and a BL users dream

I said not loopable. The boiler is one time then you literally have to leave it by design of falling into the lower floor.

ETA: You seem to have misunderstood what I wrote. Vaults are, by definition, reusable, which is why I listed every vault on the map as a reusable resource. They are not all loopable vaults, in fact most of them are only usable one way (at the exit, the boiler drop down, above the bathroom). The only loopable vaults would be the T-L, which is weak, or the freezer, which has terrible sight lines and your basically forces to leave it or just lose a 50-50.

You do realise you don't have to finish every chase you start, right? Why do you let yourself be guided across the whole map from pallet to pallet?

With Nemo I don't really care about pallets soon enough - but with other killers I generally do some bouncing around, get injures, get pallets out of the way, push survs off gens regularly so the pallets go faster than the gens. Except for coordinated pre-leaving swf (who don't need to drop the safety-pallet close to the gen) it usually works pretty well. More makro gaming and less chase gaming but that's one of the oddities of that map.

Drop down a pallet and move on to the next one.
It's not a loop.

Yes, thats why I am discussing gideons map layout, because unlike other maps gideon makes almost every checkspot easy to play.

Also that pallet you are talking about I would not classify as safe, because the killer can get a hit on it without breaking the pallet.

Yes, they are.

Reading your opponent in any game takes skill. Recognizing patterns in their gameplay and knowing how to take advantage of that requires experience and creates a back and forth between you and the person youre versing.

Dropping a pallet that has no way around it (like the pallets at doorways on Gideon, or the upstairs pallet on Eyrie) completely gets rid of that back and forth. Having 2 or 3 of these far apart from each other is fine, but Gideon has way too many of these that can also be easily chained because there are also fairly safe pallets between them.

Would appreciate it, and if he has evidence of reliable checkspots then yes I would agree its safe if the player its good.