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Knight mains!! REJOICE!!
What are your first thoughts on these changes?
i'm eager to test them on the PTB!!
The only change i'm not sure about is the "NEW] When The Knight is within 8 meters of his guard, the guard’s hunt timer depletes 3x faster". Maybe this was to make it impossible do double hit a survivor?
Congratz to the devs for this dev update!!
Comments
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So many confusing choices here.
Firstly, it's good they've basically removed the insta drop and pincer game play with the guards at loops. A nerf, but good for his health. I'm happy with this.
The problem is he was supposed to get significantly buffed in his healthier game play in return, which didn't happen.
We only got half of MotR and "Pillaged Mead were fan favorites???" What? Pillaged Mead is trash and no one uses that addon at all. We needed Call to Arms base kit as well. Now that is STILL a required addon…killing me here. This was repeated ad nauseam in the Knight community.
What we needed was a scalable increase to guard chase speed with a skill requirement to allow guards to reliably get hits if we played well. Now his best play style is basically unusable, which is good since it was unhealthy, but his healthier play style didn't get enough improvements to make it actually viable.
Honestly this feels like a net nerf overall. Until guards can some how get reliable hits he will remain bad.
Also, I really hope they went harder than they normally do on addon updates since most of his addons were extremely bad. They need more than minor improvements. Still also only have 1 addon slot available as well since Call to Arms will still be required.
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Well, considering its just the PTB, i want to try it out to test as it will become.
We only got half of MotR and "Pillaged Mead were fan favorites???" What? Pillaged Mead is trash and no one uses that addon at all. We need Call to Arms base kit as well. Now that is STILL a required addon…killing me here.
Yes, i wish they added full map of the realm and reworked the addon, but lets test in on the PTB to see how it will go.
About the short range and long range patrols: i still think it will be a buff overall, as you can create long range patrols circling objects and loops, maybe they change the faster deplete rate when the Knight is near a guard - i don't think that is necessary.
What we needed was a scalable increase to guard chase speed with a skill
requirement to allow guards to reliably get hits if we played wellThe devs said many times that the Knight is meant to get a hit working together with his guards, not the guards by themselves. Although i understand that some player want the guards to get hits, i still think that this can lead to some Skull Merchant situations where a Knight holds a trigen by sending guards to get them injure and send survivors away.
The problem is he was supposed to get significantly buffed in his healthier game play in return, which didn't happen.
Lets wait the PTB and give the proper feedback to the devs in what is needed to put the Knight in a better spot.
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"The devs said many times that the Knight is meant to get a hit working together with his guards, not the guards by themselves."
Then this is completely counter intuitive to their changes as their changes are saying the complete opposite of that. Also, most the community considers that to be the "unhealthy" and "unfun" play style of the Knight. Having them chase one side and you go the other isn't skillful, it's just a slow but free hit. This is worse than SM imo, the only reason it's complained about less is because SM is actually good but while Knight is really weak.
"as you can create long range patrols circling objects and loops"
While this is a positive, technically, I don't see how it has any meaningful impact on his power level.
"maybe they change the faster deplete rate when the Knight is near a guard"
They won't change this because it was their primary goal of removing that "unhealthy" game play of pincering survivors. They want the long range guard chases as his primary play style, not 2v1'ing survivors.
Of course we'll test on the PTB to see but I don't see any net positive here.
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I like the changes but I will need to test this first, because I really liked to use the Carnifex to fast break pallets and it is not clear to me if I will be able to do this at close range.
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They've said in another post this will be possible and will be possible even closer than before
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"The devs said many times that the Knight is meant to get a hit working together with his guards, not the guards by themselves. Although i understand that some player want the guards to get hits, i still think that this can lead to some Skull Merchant situations where a Knight holds a trigen by sending guards to get them injure and send survivors away."
This is my issue with this update. With the nerf of making a guard's hunt go down 3x faster when you near them that makes it where you can't work together with your guard to get hits. To me, it seems the devs now want you to use the guards to guard spots on the map and chase a different survivor than you currently chasing. The issue with this is that the guards are so easy to outplay and outrun meaning Knight really doesn't have power now. Meanwhile, you become a weak M1 killer while your guard is chasing someone else.
Though I agree these changes need to be tested but at first look it seems to me that this is just a huge nerf to Knight and doesnt make him any better. He will still feel very chunky and underpowered to play.
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kinda off topic, but this isn’t necessarily a killer main thing. Lots of us play both roles.
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I'm excited for the knight update.
The only thing i want to say is, i don't think the devs understand why Map of the Realm add-on is popular.
I think it's more because of the side effect of the add-on more than the actual effect. The side effect causes the initial patrol range to grow faster, therefore if you drop a guard on a survivor, the guard will detect them faster to start a hunt. I think this is the main appeal of the add-on.
Therefore i think they should have made this increased range grow speed basekit and removed it from the add-on. Because add-ons doing more than what they say is not good.6 -
Of course! I'm playing a lot of survivor these days, with friends or even SoloQ.
Knight will be a much healthier to go against. I hope the devs give more "buffs" and quality of life changes to the "long range patrol" style.
But i've called the Knight mains because we have been waiting for these changes for a long time and we've finally got it! I've even thought Behaviour would never ever buff the Knight - specially after the killswitch in last year.
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So they nerfed his entire kit into the ground just to give him half of the map of the realm as base kit and a option to change your guards 🥲
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You might notice there is nothing about improving the AI of the Guards, such as how they react to vaults and pallets, or their pathfinding… I was hoping BHVR would improve that but it seems like they are removing his ability to force Survivors out of loops and then some other meaningless number changes to make it look like they're not nerfing one of the weakest Killers in the game. The changes all sound lame to me on paper but maybe they will be ok in the actual game.
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how we feel? horrible, if this goes live the knight is truly dead, all of this just amounts to a massive nerf lol
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Is the carnifex insta break gone now??? That would be pretty bad.
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Nope. Peanits confirmed it.
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Am I missing something or is this just bad overall? Selecting guards is really nice but everything else isn't really good. They also didn't say anything about the ai.
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Amazing. Seems like a good update then.
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Well, looks like there are more changes to come and i hope some bugfixes for the Knight guards ai
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I feel he's gutted. I don't understand the mentality behind making the guards expire 3x as fast when you're near them. I thought the player was supposed to work alongside the guard to get a hit?
Guards by themselves never get a hit, unless the survivor play wrong, so i really don't understand the reasoning behind these changes. Then again, i rarely play Knight these days due to his quite irritating glitches, and apparently these won't be solved, so...
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All sounds pretty good on paper to me, as a Knight enjoyer myself.
Would need to test it in play though.
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just made him more fun and rewarding to play
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That's the biggest problem to me, as you will need to be close to your guard to get a hit on a survivor. But i think this won't go to the live servers, as will render the Knight power ineffective in many situations.
I hope they fix many of the Knight bugs in this ptb, as they did with the Twins and Nurse.
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How did they make him more fun to play? Maybe play against but I don't see how these changes make him more fun to play. There was no say about fixing the chunkiness of his kit or the bugs with the AI. Also, you can't use your power in chase anymore so when you chasing someone you're just a powerless m1 killer and those are hardly ever fun to play. Survivors will still easily outrun a gruad bc they no more faster than what they are now. The only thing you really can do is just quickly break pallets with Carnifex to get easy hits and then that will most like change bc it be like old Chucky again since you can now use Carnifex all the time if you choice to. I just don't see how Knight with these changes is going to be more fun to play.
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you can't use your guards in chase, you can't outplay survivors by zoning them with your guards, the only way to use your power now is "sniping survivors with your guards", thing that will do absolutely nothing because they nerfed carnifex, nerfed the assassin and somehow made jailer worse than before by giving him a 24 seconds chase (the point of the jailer is to spot survivors, not chase survivors), he's literally just another case of freddy/sadako now, and why would would they make HALF of the Map of the realm base kit? Just like they did to demogorgon and doctor, fixing half of the issue will not fix the issue, and what about call of the arms? I hope they cancel the rework and just straight up buff his base kit
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But this change contradicts that:
[NEW] When The Knight is within 8 meters of his guard, the guard’s hunt timer depletes 3x faster.
So basically, the idea is to send a guard with a path that is long, the guard starts chasing someone, but it will NEVER hit a person on its own, so now you need to run over to the area the guard is at to help them chase the survivor, but now once you get close, the guard will end much sooner.
Its like they want the goal to be to set long range paths and do cool stuff and guard areas, but the problem is the guards themselves are NOT a threat without you supporting them, but if you support them they disappear faster. Its an odd choice.
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It's quite funny how they are trying to advertise this mess as something like a "buff", not sure if they are actually serious at all
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Looks like Dried Horsemeat is still going to feel quasi-mandatory for the killer, which is quite the missed opportunity for BHVR. And since when is Pillaged Mead a "fan favorite addon"?
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I think the direction is good. The guards being easily exploitable is a thing, and we'll hopefully see a slew of bug fixes and AI improvememts to the guards... but what I see in this update is the Knight needs to actually think about how he's gonna cut survivors off.
The 8m change is a clever value to use... it means the Knight can't just stick a guard on a survivor and zone them by forcing them to run in a straight line while he hovers along side waiting for the survivor to run out of map. He actually has to make the guard go one way while he goes another and actually cut of survivors, preferably by overshooting his guard and having them push survivors into him.
I would like like full Map of the Realm, though I think in conjunction with the half MotR basekit change, the detection ranges being increased for all guards should mean they amount to roughly the same? I hope so, cause it seems like it'll be more important than ever with these changes.
The option to cycle guards is very nice. Though one concern is that if the pathing of the guards if up to 1.5 times longer, that means I have longer before I can use another guard... If the jailor is out hunting for 24s, that mean he takes even longer to end? Maybe a feature I can cancel, wait the 3s and bring out a new guard if I want would be nice?
Will be interesting to see what happens on the PTB
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Would you care to explain how in any way he is more fun to play when you are now penalized for doing actually anything? 5 seconds for flag spawns means you are handing survivors a free sprint burst since you now have to sit still and send the guard 10m away before resuming chase.
Also could you explain how it is more rewarding to play when you are, again, penalized for doing anything with your power? Guards cannot score hits by themselves and the game now actively punishes you for chasing alongside your guards by shortening their spawn time by a whopping 300% when you get close to them. There is nothing positive here. There is no reward, there is no fun.
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Is this a troll post, OP? There's 1 QoL update (selecting guards) and a metric ton of nerfs. What is there to rejoice about?
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I get where you coming from about having to think about how to cut survivors off but I feel they don't want you to chase the same survivor as your guard/work together with your guard anymore since being near a hunting guard going makes their chase time go down 3x faster. To me it seem they want you to use guards to chase a survivor while you chase another but since guards are so easy to loop and outplay you really never see any value in doing this. I feel most really just choose to use Carnifex all the time to break pallets super fast and get hits that way. I don't see any other meaningful way of using your guards since they still going to be bad at chasing survivors. Maybe Im wrong but on paper all this seems to be a pretty big net nerf for Knight.
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It seems like they want his guards to be a slowdown power? Like you use one to chase one survivor and waste time so they're not on a gen, while you chase someone else.
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QoL changes can also be buffs. They in fact almost always are. Definitely not a update to rejoice about for Knight (and good Hux players) mains though, I agree.
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😆
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- Remove that guards goes away 3 times faster.
- Add partial call to arms
- Full Map of the realm
With this im ok.
Pillaged mead fan favourite lol.
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Remove the hunt timer going down when near a guard and the rest seems fine
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Yeah, that's why I wanna see the findings in the PTB... I think the direction is good, but he may need more put into his kit to shine.
My hope is along with the rework, he'd also get a slew of bug fixes to make the guards more functional/dangerous.
I think the changes are interesting, will likely need buffs, but as with anything on the PTB, its the concept, not the numbers that is important, and its sn intriguing heading.
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So he gets a slowdown power which is far weaker than pinhead box, and also gets a chase capability weaker than pinhead
Seems right to me
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We see but I really not keeping my hopes up on the bug fixes. Since bugs are one the major reason he feels so bad to play(at least imo) I feel they would had said something in the dev blog. Something along the lines "We also looking at fixing some of the most problematic bugs knight has" Maybe these changes will make him better but on paper, I still think this a net nerf at best.
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Well for one thing a shorter gen kick time on Jailer + Assassin is bad since kicking a generator blocks survivors from repairing it.
I’ll have to try it out but sounds like a huge nerf overall, pincer attacks and dropping guards on annoying loops was a large part of why he was my favourite killer and sounds he’s going from mid tier to low tier in strength.1 -
True, and Twins was the same... but we can dream right? 😭
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insta drop while im glad its gone does make knight significantly weaker cause it was a necessary evil to work with them cause guards can't reliably get hits on their own.
A 2 meter detection increase won't help his guards get hits they also need a speed increase especially Assassin since hes supposed to be the speedster of the group yet a survivor can just easily outlast the timer by just holding W or looping a tile once to grab the banner not to mention the various bugs and techs to get them stuck.
Call to arms is very much a mandatory addon now even more then before same with dried horsemeat
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Post edited by Rickprado on0
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I really think they will go back in this. This is terrible, won't deny. But aside from this, i'm happy to see the devs at least trying to change the Knight in a good way.
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These changes are absolutely horrible. His power won't do anything after this. The changes read like no one on BHVR has ever actually played as him.
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