People who think Distortion is selfish

Its because nobody is arguing with me that pop and pain res should not be nerfed.

Well, they couldn't. Not -before- you placed your opening post. Your opening post set the topic of discussion, and it put a magnifying glass on the survivors' stuff.

Your tone was very disinterested when it came to the killer perks. Barely a mention. People are going to assume that what you want to talk about is the thing you actually do talk about.

If you want my take on pop and pain res it's that they need to be gutted. Minor nerfs will lead to killers still stacking them together as they do if they are left as the best 2 perks in the game.

I don't think I even agree with you on that. I think Pop and Pain Res are acceptable, just not with the numbers they had.

Running aura perks into distortion is pointless never can one player use 2 distortions while a killer can run 2 aura perks.

But that is only if you are exclusively considering the 1v1. When you are considering the match as a whole, unless all four survivors are running Distortion, your aura perks will still do their job. It may be more restrictive, but they won't be 'pointless'.

Again, too, Distortion is protecting a lot of survivor perks from hitting this same wall.

I know, Its why I want all of the stuff that is being used to makeup that beatstick nerfed on both killer and survivor.

Except the stuff that's actually a problem seemed to fly under your radar, in favour of significantly less obnoxious perks.

They changed with the game. The game went from having perks that revealed you for free like whispers but didn't give the whole game away to perks that show your location when conditions were fulfilled as the game became less about hiding and more about chases.

It feels like you're appealing to a sort of organic shift in the game's playstyle as a justification for the existence of the newer aura perks, but I have to mirror that to Distortion. Why is the aura reading powercreep an organic change, but not Distortion?

It's not just about that being punished disproportionately for running slightly weaker builds if the survivors use distortion feels bad, it's very rare but the few times I've play a game with 2 aura perks and went ah well I have half a build because I ran into 4 people using it sucks.

Okay? That's kind of the nature of the game. We can't use this reason to kneecap killers like Wraith, Myers, Plague and Legion, either.

If you want to nerf Distortion, one of the ways to do it is by harshly nerfing the aura reading perks that make it function. Distortion is ultimately a counter-perk, and if it has nothing to counter, it won't be picked up. Currently though, aura reading is popular and extremely effective, meaning that Distortion, despite its flakiness, is an appealing pick for a lot of players.

In short, Distortion wouldn't be a problem if these killer perks didn't amputate a solid chunk of DBD's gameplay.

but it also leans into that part of the game I have previously said about where what you bring becomes more important the more powerful things are because if the killer goes all out with 4 slowdowns the perk does nothing and outperking people just becomes more prevalent.

And I agree with you on that, to a degree. What I disagree with is that the blame gets placed on Distortion here. Distortion has no innate value, and is ultimately reflective of the prevalence and power of the perks it counters. As they go up, so does Distortion.

In short: If Distortion is a problem, something's wrong with killer perks. Not with Distortion.

Hi Mandy!
It seems the community is split on this issue. Probably best to leave Distortion as-is. Thank you.

Sincerely,
Distortion User

Yes, on YOU specifically. Distortion has to be picked by all four in order for these perks to be truly and fully countered. One Distortion doesn't do that. It weakens it, sure, but it doesn't block the entire perk.

Saying there are other players to go for therefore distortion is ok doesn't work because if say 2 players have to take all the pressure because the killer is running something like bbq and lethal and he just wants to take the shortest route they will ping pong between them, the best way to win right now easily is to ping pong between 2 players on a lot of killers it is not good.

You already mentioned Nowhere to Hide, Lethal Pursuer, and Floods of Rage. You correctly identified that I'm All Ears is NOT one of the problem perks as it serves a different function. There's also Weave Attunement and Friends 'Til the End. Ultimate Weapon can also be counted, though it has already been solidly nerfed, but then also retains its problematic aspect.

Do you just have a problem with perks that reveal you?

The game has gone in a direction where if they don't they would be useless im never going to be running wispers or spies ever over something like surge, pain res, deadlock or even brutal strength. Edit (NTH is the exception its out of line with the other aura perks i want it nerfed)

The game has gone in a direction where looking for players is secondary to chasing them so as long as you fulfil the condition, you get aura.

Distortion existence in its current state makes the game worse for the people who are not using it and for killer using the perks in counters furthering the gap between the detection perks and the top perks its existence is not justifiable within this context.

Yes but then multiple aura perks are essentially disabled and that is part of why they are so weak compared to the other perk types and as a killer it feels like survivors are making progress without needing to hold you in chase while you have 1 or 2 less tools than you would have if you just brought a stronger build. Its why the perk is just strong.

Also, it is pushing people to play around their teammate's perks when the game does not tell you what your team is running, and even then it's not nice to be forced to play a slower match to accommodate for your teammate who won't take any pressure.

But since the pressure is off of everyone doesn't that make Distortion ok? And since theres a way for everyone to ignore most aura reading if they're careful, whats the problem of having a perk that simplifies having to dodge readings? Survivors don't always need to hold killers in chase for making progress. A killer to be able to hunt them down, if the killer requires aura reading to do that then thats their own problem. Survivors only need to keep the killer busy so the gens get finished or everyone else is dead for a last chance attempt at doors or hatch. It does not matter how the killer is kept busy. You roll the dice on a build, sometimes its just unlucky.

Its why the perk is just strong.

If the killer brings no aura reading, what happens?

Also if we recall correctly, you called distortion "broken" in another thread~ [We really cant help but poke this bait]

Also, it is pushing people to play around their teammate's perks when the game does not tell you what your team is running, and even then it's not nice to be forced to play a slower match to accommodate for your teammate who won't take any pressure.

Not really. Dbd has been a simple concept. Throw 4 people in a box with something that wants to kill them, give the 4 ways out, add in perks and powers for spice, and see what happens. Perks are ment to shore up your weaknesses, and distortion helps those who are productive yet are terrible in chase. You don't need to accommodate anyone but yourself (or if your feeling generous, your friends in a SWF) as trying to always accommodate random others is a certain failure.

This is, again, the paradigm shift, where the killer is apparently entitled to have access to a survivor's exact location 24/7. Any disruption to this then suddenly becomes the survivor's fault, rather than the fault of perks that are obviously overtuned.

They have conditions!!!

BBQ doesn't show people within 40m and only procs after an unhook. The only 2 I concede should have changes have conditions that are too easy to activate ie kick a gen for nth or lethal but even then lethal is a bit of a one trick pony perk and the only actual issue i have with it is the 4 second extension potentially breaking future perk.

I don't think you have even considered their conditions and just see them as free. #

Also lockers exist.

They just are not as good as the actual good perks that slow the game down.
Friends til the end is nowhere near S tier it's not even A tier, same with BBQ,

Yes their is a paradigm shift and the game has change but they are also just not as good and none of them justify a perk like distortion. Both of these things are true

I have a problem with perks that completely disable the opportunity for stealth. BBQ & Chili doesn't, nor does I'm All Ears. But the newer perks all lobotomise gameplay and have created a new baseline

So nth the thing I said I understand nerfing and lethal are the "newer perks"

But nothing else applies Friend til the end is not good and…. that's is really it.

You need to specifically say the perks because to my mind these aura boogiemen perks don't exist.

So when killers get new perks that invalidate an entire survivor playstyle and a large number of perks, the game has simply 'gone in a direction'

BECAUSE IT HAS.

when I started playing dbd on October 28th 2017. It was a different game.

also name these aura boogiemen perks that don't exist.

Even with NTH and Lethal distortions existence is not justified making every aura perk not work on you is a bad perk and its sucks to play against and sucks to play with people using maliciously.

Then literally every perk is a crutch. In fact, technically speaking yes, every perk is a crutch as everyone relies on them for help.

The reason im poseing the question is it a crutch is because its shifting the responsibility of holding the chase to other players. Not every perk is a crutch but when you say.

distortion helps those who are productive yet are terrible in chase.

It sounds like it is a perk that is more of a crutch than other perks because productivity not really that much of a skill because as i said previously

as I said the game is the chase it is what players are judged on, and if nobody in the lobby can hold one you will lose no matter what because anyone can do gen whether they choose to is something else. Also, almost everyone who can hold a chase, even if they cannot vocalize an explanation for it, understands the macro game they just do it's not a difficult game conceptually.

So it kinda helps players play into lobbies they just are not good enough for.

and who exactly cares? This isn't to be completely rude as its a genuine question cause even if you can hold chase for minutes, if the killer finds and decides to target someone who cant chase, 

Players in the lobby care. Also, it just sucks to have to carry someone else's weight especially because even when you hold a killer for ages you are very likely to be sacrificed because the ego-chaseing killer is offended at the idea a survivor has run them. Yes this is partially on killers but perks are easier to change than attuide and I don't think the ego-chasing killer who wants his 1k is ever-changing their mind.

I was working my way up your post not down it so I think this quote is a relevant point where we disagree but i only saw it after writing the last paragraph and I dont want to rewrite it in

Overall, its a person problem not a perk problem.

Because I don't think you can fix the issue with the players but you can with the perk.

Hey~ You finally admitted it your opinions and not undeniable facts, we're proud.

We are taking about dbd balanced its all opinions like i said at the start though

What's strong is strong you can try and say dark theory is op and that is your right. You would be wrong.

And a lot of the "its not strong that's why i use it all the time" players are coping that may not be something I can prove but it is true we all know it. In the same way we know Sprint burst is a strong perk we don't need to qualify everything with imo imo.

We can't speak for everyone but we were here when there was instant-repair-BNP, instant-up medkits, infinites, exhaustion recovering while running, Dribbling DS, Original DH, Omega nurse, moon walking legions, and things such as those. Those were "broken" to us. Many things currently are strong but not like that. Things like distortion compared to THOSE are laughable.

I know I started playing dbd in 2017 (see previous post to firellius) but just because it's better doesn't mean it's actually in a good state. I got a friend into dbd this year and he is a killer player who complains and lot every time I tell him it used to be worse he has a go at me and honestly, he is right.

Things being completely busted and games being decided by a single key or an object user with comms behind the great wall of azarovs doesn't justify the faults of the game as it is today.

The chase is a PART of the game, its not the whole game. If the survivors are good enough, can be entirely avoided.

The chase is the only reason this game has lived as long as it has. It may only be a part but it may as well be the whole thing because if dbd was a car the chase would be the engine, the seats, the wheels, and the frame while the stealth would be the windscreen wipers.

If chases stopped happening consistently because every stealth perk was buffed to the moon or every pallet or window got removed the game would die immediately. That's not an exaggeration.

You may not think its a good idea but thats the way this works, and if they do camp, the aforementioned gens get finished without worry and off the rest go.

You are giving the average killer player too much credit when put in the toughest of spots most will try and secure the 1k or 2k and won't shoot for the 4k. This may seem a bit cynical but its the way they are.

Also on both side even disregarding that this just leads to boring gameplay its not the result that really matters it the gameplay sucks it sucks.

….so how can something be strong and yet not do anything? The survivors there got nothin outta distortion while the killer was gaining progress.

When im talking about it Game by game. Build by build.

When the game becomes about hoping you have not brought the right stuff for what the other side has it will suck. Its why i keep banging the drum when everything gets too strong it becomes more about what you have and what its good into. That sucks it just sucks ass to play games like that.

I don't know if you play it so this may be a bad example but it's why counter-swapping becoming too important killed my enjoyment of overwatch, I don't want to be punished or rewarded for choosing to use specific perks rather than being published for misplaying or misusing my tools.

And what is stopping the killer from going out and trying to pressure the survivors?

Because in the scenario we have come to they are doing it with 2 perks.

The reason im poseing the question is it a crutch is because its shifting the responsibility of holding the chase to other players. Not every perk is a crutch but when you say.

Then by that reasoning not every perk is "broken" but when you say. From the other post:

What's strong is strong you can try and say dark theory is op and that is your right. You would be wrong.

You are not a reality warper whats broken is broken and whats weak is weak.

With that out of the way, let us ask a question: Why do players bring perks? We believe its to help them shore up weaknesses or facilitate a playstyle. In the vein of Distortion, it helps play stealthy. Some are better in chase and some are not and if not being caught makes them more efficient then Distortion helps. If by this describes a crutch to you, then every perk must follow.

So it kinda helps players play into lobbies they just are not good enough for.

As does the killer tunneling and survivors being carried by friends in a swf which don't necessarily require perks. If the survivor can survive and get out the door without being seen then that sorta proves they have enough skill in stealth to keep moving forward.

I know I started playing dbd in 2017 (see previous post to firellius) but just because it's better doesn't mean it's actually in a good state. I got a friend into dbd this year and he is a killer player who complains and lot every time I tell him it used to be worse he has a go at me and honestly, he is right.

Things being completely busted and games being decided by a single key or an object user with comms behind the great wall of azarovs doesn't justify the faults of the game as it is today.

Good is subjective. And this is going to give us weird flashbacks buuuuut: Whats good for you is not good for me and whats good for me is not good for senior bacon which one turn may not be good for whomever is next on the list. From what it sounds like you just want the game to change into your own version and don't care a lick that its improved from that mess in the past. We don't know if its true or not but keep in mind thats what it sounds like.

We're going to ignore the friend part as we don't have something we can say politely. (yes the above was our "polite")

The chase is the only reason this game has lived as long as it has. It may only be a part but it may as well be the whole thing because if dbd was a car the chase would be the engine, the seats, the wheels, and the frame while the stealth would be the windscreen wipers.

If chases stopped happening consistently because every stealth perk was buffed to the moon or every pallet or window got removed the game would die immediately. That's not an exaggeration.

We're of the thought that all the licences is whats kept the game goin. That aside no its not the only reason as there is a myriad of factors thats done the job. You may favor the chase and place the most importance on it, but you are not everyone and can't speek for everyone. Looking at previous posts of others shows that a decent number of players value using stealth. As for the car analogy, we'd say the chase is the engine and wheels while stealth would be the frame and body.

We do agree that if every stealth perk got buffed to obscene levels the game would start dying, but as it is theres none there and we haven't seen any plans of BHVR for it. It would be to the levels of survivors being practically invisible for chases to stop on a consistent basis.

You are giving the average killer player too much credit when put in the toughest of spots most will try and secure the 1k or 2k and won't shoot for the 4k. This may seem a bit cynical but its the way they are.

Also on both side even disregarding that this just leads to boring gameplay its not the result that really matters it the gameplay sucks it sucks.

We've seen all types over the years. Some surprise us others don't, but we do not know until we see. As for boring gameplay, thats how the game is. If the killer camps do you really expect survivors to just trade till death? The killer has to hunt them (which is another part of the game). And just so you know we're also not talking out our arse (and admittedly to show off alittle):

When im talking about it Game by game. Build by build.

When the game becomes about hoping you have not brought the right stuff for what the other side has it will suck. Its why i keep banging the drum when everything gets too strong it becomes more about what you have and what its good into. That sucks it just sucks ass to play games like that.

But then does it not balance out since its on a case by case basis? Its never going to work or fail 100% of the time, nothing will. Also since theres many ways that someone didnt bring the right thing against the other side (healing against plauge, distortion against someone not using aura, lithe or DH against languid touch) we may think your playing somethin you dont like.

Because in the scenario we have come to they are doing it with 2 perks.

Thats not stopping them. Thats them having to go about it harder.

I don't think Distortion is selfish, I just think it further limits perk diversity in a game that already has a bad perk diversity problem to begin with. Unhealthy. It's not about being too strong or anything.

My problem with distortion is that it hard counters aura reading with no activation requirement other than existing. Lethal at the start of a match? Nope. Find, chase, down and then hook a survivor to activate BBQ, that's gonna be a big fat no again. How about one more time find, chase, down and then hook. Nope 3 strikes and your out. I don't care about whataboutisms or endless go nowhere scenarios people like to provide. This perk in its current state is unhealthy. It should be reverted back.

But then does it not balance out since its on a case by case basis? Its never going to work or fail 100% of the time, nothing will. Also since theres many ways that someone didnt bring the right thing against the other side (healing against plauge, distortion against someone not using aura, lithe or DH against languid touch) we may think your playing somethin you dont like.

It's never going to work or fail 100% of the time but what you bring should not be as boom or bust a decision. I do not want to feel like I should bring a different type of perk just because what's popular eviscerates a weaker perk everything should be useable and not just turned on and off by other perks.

You also brought up languid touch, all it does is give survivors exhaustion and this perk is seen as ok only because of how strong exhaustion perks are. That to me is a good indication that exhaustion perks are just too far ahead of the other survivor perk options.

I may have brought it up may not have in one of my pervious posts where I said some killers just deserve to be stronger than other killers but my opinion on Plague is she is too strong for what she is. Perks that synergise too well with her like thana and the fact that she as you stated counters a perk type just because she changes the mechanics make me not like the killer.

I think its a bit of a joke that a M1 basic attack killer that gives you info with loud sound notifications that cannot be missed, thats power is mechanically easier to use compared to every other killer that can down from range is allowed to be the strongest of those types of killers just because specific perks work too well on her. So although I think plague is bs I just want to see her nerfed, not ds canceling her power nerfed I just want to see her base power brought more in line with something like Slinger or the Cenobite.

And just so you know we're also not talking out our arse (and admittedly to show off alittle):

We are boomers :(

 As for boring gameplay, thats how the game is. If the killer camps do you really expect survivors to just trade till death?

Yes but making the safest option the most boring one just kinda suck the fun out of the game. Personally, I think hooks should kill a little faster base but the higher the anti-camp meter is even if you don't get to unhook the slower the hook kills the survivor because i think forcing someone to die just sucks and I don't like the current solution which is to bring a perk like Reassurance

That still doesn't solve the issue of distortion essentially turning some perks off but I don't like camping being the most viable option ever, it's boring for everyone involved who is not taking pleasure in boring someone else.

As for the car analogy, we'd say the chase is the engine and wheels while stealth would be the frame and body.

I'm not convinced this game survives without stumbling onto the gameplay loop it did with its chases (which was 100% accidental) If stealth was just erased from the game with basekit things that gave killers survivor locations every kinda like old Freddy on every killer (I'm coming up with the most ridiculous example that should never happen on purpose i don't actually think this should happen) I think the game would still have a player base, many players would leave but I don't think the game would die. Yea the windscreen wiper analogy may have been a bit extreme but honestly. I think it is true, the chase and stealth part of this game are not equally as important as each other.

don't care a lick that its improved from that mess in the past. 

Yeah because I don't just play dbd but the game is not competing with its past self it's competing with

-Xdefiant

-Elden ring

-Fallout New Vegas

-Europa Universalis 4

-Nioh

all games that I want to play more of and own, I imagine most players have their own game this applies to, hell it doesn't even have to be a game it can just be an activity they enjoy. It doesn't matter how it was it matters how it is my hours in dbd are not an investment in something that may or may not get better its time in a game, (time I'm about to have a lot less of because of life stuff, I'm just wring these posts in between job applications because I just finished uni) so if the game doesn't get better I will just stop playing when I have less time. Just because the game is in a better state than when it was a complete mess doesn't mean jack because that is such a low bar to pass.

As does the killer tunneling and survivors being carried by friends in a swf which don't necessarily require perks.

and all these things suck to deal with on the other side though.
say for example i say thing A is bad (and it is) and then you say thing B is bad and C as well it doesn't change that thing A is bad. Although I do think tunnelling is not as common as its made out to be, it's kinda the same with "bully squads" which i don't think can ever bully a killer of equivalent skill (the killer will win in that scenario) so I think a lot of the dbd community just cannot cope with a normal loss.

With that out of the way, let us ask a question: Why do players bring perks? We believe its to help them shore up weaknesses or facilitate a playstyle. In the vein of Distortion, it helps play stealthy. Some are better in chase and some are not and if not being caught makes them more efficient then Distortion helps. If by this describes a crutch to you, then every perk must follow.

I don't think I said it clearly and concisely so I'm going to have another go at it.

Is a perk a crutch perk if it shifts the responsibility of the hardest part of the game onto a teammate?

Say if your teammates cannot hold chase you will probably lose, if they can you stand a good chance at winning, but it's taking some of the individual players who's using it, ability out of the equation and emphasising the importance of the ability of the other players in the lobby.

Does that make it a crutch or more liable to be used as a crutch?

The reason i am asking is because the way you described the perk make me think of this BUT I am self-conscious enough to know that i want to be convinced it is because

1. I don't like the perk
2. I don't use the perk much at all

so I am genuinely asking does this makes it a crutch?

But when you say

In the vein of Distortion, it helps play stealthy. Some are better in chase and some are not and if not being caught makes them more efficient then Distortion helps.

or

distortion helps those who are productive yet are terrible in chase

to me who thinks this

because as I said the game is the chase it is what players are judged on, and if nobody in the lobby can hold one you will lose no matter what because anyone can do gen whether they choose to is something else. Also, almost everyone who can hold a chase, even if they cannot vocalize an explanation for it, understands the macro game they just do it's not a difficult game conceptually

It sounds like the perk is to me.

But you keep answering a question with a question and not clearly saying it is or is not and why

That would make it useless in present day DbD unless most aura reading perks were severely nerfed as well. If you don't like Distortion run Spies in the Shadows or Whispers.

I already did. You skipped it.

You have not listed them say the boogiemen perks if saying

The only one that has a condition that is -somewhat- outside the normal game loop is Floods of Rage

and therefore i am assuming you have an issue with the rest of them like

friends to the end

Nurses calling

awakened awareness

Bitter murmur

lethal pursuer

Nowhere to hide

Darkness revealed

Gearhead

hex undying at a stretch

I'm sorry your wrong and I think you know that and are avoiding making a list like this because of it. I understand wanting to bring stuff like NTH in line but you are just wrong.

Having your aura revealed is completely fine as long as the conditions are foreseeable and there is no aura perk you cannot adjust to playing around within a regular game (without distortion)

Loads of people do still tend to pick up intel perks over extra regression perks, so no, they are not universally weaker than/stronger than.

They just are not.

Yes, there may be no point to bring surge on Hillbilly or Nurse because they don't proc the perk but regression perks are stronger than aura perks. I'm not going to say that's my opinion because they just are.

You have no evidence that chases are what kept the game afloat all this time. That is a decision -you- made.

It has a lot to do with licences to be honest, Rulebreaker was right about that but this game does not survive without the gameplay loop that was accidentally created from chases.

You can say that is a decision I made but it is just true.

You, personally, not caring about stealth does not mean no one else does

It has a place in the game i have said its less important I did not say its not something i care about, i play surviver do you think i just greed every gen and run up to every killer?

You should be able to lose someone in chase if they are not paying attention. You should have the ability to rotate around a rock when the killer is on the other side (its probably a point NTH goes a step to far) you should not be exempt from all aura reading.

You claim that the game has 'moved away' from having stealth as an option, but that is clearly at odds with the fact that Distortion exists.

This game use to primarily be about not being seen by the killer now it is about not being caught by the killer you say things like

You act as though stealth and chase are mutually exclusive, as if Distortion makes it physically impossible for a survivor to be found, or to be chased. That's the case.

But moveing away from something does not mean its abandoned it entirely.

Assassin's Creed has moved away from parkour being as important as in previous entries with Valhalla and Odyssey it doesn't mean when there is a building you just can every climb it.

But when an obvious condition is fulfilled with the aura perks I listed above you get your aura revealed.

edit

Which works against BBQ & Chili, because the survivors get advance warning of when it is about to fire.

Also, this is just wrong you get no warning. You just know the condition because you think to counter the perk you can do the same thing with almost any other aura perk if they are being used to look for players.

That's the point I'm making with regards to Distortion. If you eliminate Distortion, it's not just 'moving away' from stealth. It's annihilating it in its entirety.

It is not.

I'd like to see you dodge Floods of Rage, Darkness Revealed or Ultimate Weapon, for example.

Its the same way you deal with BBQ. The exact same way you have no problem with…

Which works against BBQ & Chili, because the survivors get advance warning of when it is about to fire

Also you talking about Floods of rage -

The only one that has a condition that is -somewhat- outside the normal game loop is Floods of Rage, and that just depends on hook distribution.

It can only be used 6 times max and hook distribution plays a part in that potentially being lower and survivors determine when it gets set off, So I would be willing to let that be an exception.

And if your whole argument for justifying distortions existence is to say look at Floods of Rage, Darkness Revealed or Ultimate Weapon Your argument does not work its cooked all 3 of these perks are bad. Unless used on specific killers that synergise with them.

Also, Ultimate weapon does not reveal your aura, it is not an aura perk. I don't think you know what you are talking about this is waffle and does not make sense.

When playing SoloQ i have been used as a sacrificial lamb by SWFs, they didnt care about my hook states or saving me, i was there to buy them time to do the gens. ONLY when i figured what was going on and trying to suicide, then they rushed to unhook me → and lead the killer to me again.

I've replied to both of you in one post because i dont feel like splittng it also each quote is not in order so some of ampersandunderscores replies may be above or below Firellius and vice verse but im not going to reorder it all sorry.

I'd like to see you dodge Floods of Rage, Darkness Revealed or Ultimate Weapon, for example.

Words the line above or below stop saying "i said this" when you have not yet it was nerfed you mat have said that but we are clearly talking about the game as is so talk about it as is.

You DON'T know when Floods of Rage, Darkness Revealed, or Ultimate Weapon are going to proc. So if you want to locker-dodge those, you're going to be spending the entire match in a locker, bud. Did you think this through?

BBQ has a very distinct tell. The killer picks up the survivor and it's very clear they're going to hook them. You can head to a locker when they pick up, and wait inside for a bit after they hook. This was literally meta before 6.1, so I've done this hundreds of times.

You don't locker dodge them because you don't need to. It's really that simple they are not often used perks you so dont assume killers are using them that it. Why do you assume the killer has BBQ when you get in a locker. Because its used or their gameplay has indicated they have it.

Say if every time a huntress reloads (which is how darkness revealed is mostly used) if they start going towards someone near as if their aura is revealed you know what they have.

You also don't need to avoid your aura being seen all the time because they are not strong perks. It's really that simple.

These are nowhere near the 'same as BBQ'. Pretending they are means you either never play survivor, are being completely disingenuous, or possibly both at the same time.

You don't need to be able to counter the 3 darkness-revealed Ghostface players quing right now the ways its used make it obvious. (mainly by huntress and trickesters having you pull these examples that dont happen out of the hat makes me feel like bren

Its more about the first part of his rant you dont need to account for all the uses on killer the perks are hot garbage on.

The theory does not matter if it never happens I'm sorry when it's used you can tell.

Solo q is just screwed by floods of rage because there's literally no way to communicate that someone is 'unhooking now'.

Lots of things screw over solo Q like regression as people cannot prevent other people gens from regressing as they dont know what gens people were on. Its such a well of things you would need to post for days to get the bottom of this well so lets not i know how it ends the best soloution against a perfect team becomes, to stack regression, slow down the game, and try to get a 3 gen as is the same against an unorganised team.

6 times? How'd you get to that number?

Each player can only be unhooked up to 2 times you can only get 6 procs because they cannot unhook a dead suv.

6 times is the max it can proc and you will likely get 4 or 5 if you play for it but if you are unlucky you may only get 1 or 2.

The perk is hot garbage when you consider not all the procs are useful as the unhooking suv sets it off so the killer does not always get it at a good time. For some killers like pyramid head its good on because the reveals translate into wallbangs but its a pretty trash perk on anyone else.

If a pyramid head hits a wallbang right after a unhook he likely has it then you need to play around it if you can. Most other killers its trash on and does not justify distrions existence because of how bad and situational it is

edit after all this i realised i typed 6 not 8 im a ######### moron but the point stands its garbage

typed 6

why would I run those when it doesn't synergize with a lot of killers? Killers have unique abilities and use perks to go with them. Survivors are just skins.

Aura is already nerfed when one perk can outright counter it in its entirety and no, don't suggest gearhead because I only have 4 perk slots and am not going to run it just "In case". Also, having 3 tokens and only 3 is not useless, it directly counters Lethal which is argued by some as an unhealthy perk…

You don't locker dodge them because you don't need to. It's really that simple they are not often used perks you so dont assume killers are using them that it. Why do you assume the killer has BBQ when you get in a locker. Because its used or their gameplay has indicated they have it.

That's moving the goalpost.

You stated that there's no aura reading perk you can't adapt to, and when I highlight a number of perks that a solo survivor cannot avoid, you switch to 'well, they're rare picks so who cares?'.

Doesn't change that these perks invalidate stealth and the associated perks. You said you could adapt to it, so adapt to it. Killer has Floods of Rage, or Darkness Revealed, or any other intel perk. How do you adapt to it?

You also don't need to avoid your aura being seen all the time because they are not strong perks. It's really that simple.

Because just taking it face-on is not 'adapting' to it.

You don't need to be able to counter the 3 darkness-revealed Ghostface players quing right now the ways its used make it obvious. (mainly by huntress and trickesters having you pull these examples that dont happen out of the hat makes me feel like bren

Acting like this is some 'stars align' thing is really disingenuous too. These perks don't have bad pick-rates and are decently high up on the list.

The theory does not matter if it never happens I'm sorry when it's used you can tell.

This kicks your argument in the shins too, buddy. How can Distortion be a problem if these aura reading perks are never picked? Remember that Distortion does nothing without aura reading. So if no one is picking aura reading, why are people picking up Distortion?

Could it, perchance, be that these perks are not nearly as rare as you make them out to be?

That's moving the goalpost.

You stated that there's no aura reading perk you can't adapt to, and when I highlight a number of perks that a solo survivor cannot avoid, you switch to 'well, they're rare picks so who cares?'.

Doesn't change that these perks invalidate stealth and the associated perks. You said you could adapt to it, so adapt to it. Killer has Floods of Rage, or Darkness Revealed, or any other intel perk. How do you adapt to it?

yes it is you win the argument that you cannot counter a bad killer running a bad perk on that killer.

Do you still think that really justifies distortion?

it does not.

I made one mistake, it does not validate your overall point so its not quite the burn you think

Acting like this is some 'stars align' thing is really disingenuous too. These perks don't have bad pick-rates and are decently high up on the list.

On the killers they are used you can still counter them the stars align point if for when you cant because its on a killer that its bad on and therefore its unforeseeable.

This kicks your argument in the shins too, buddy. How can Distortion be a problem if these aura reading perks are never picked?

I never said they are not picked I said they are bad.

Because they are… you get better results bringing slowdown and until slowdown is nerfed to the strongest aura perks level they will still be weak but picked because people do not like looking for survivors. It's the only reason I run them it cuts out the least fun part of the game at the expense of running a weaker build but then there is a perk that punishes you for doing that. When want to win a game for whatever reason I run full slowdown.

Its a dumb perk and nothing you have said has proven me wrong on this after days of posting. If you have a silver bullet use it because i am getting fed up of this waffle. I am rudely calling your posts waffle because unlike rulebreaker I don't really have to think that hard about dbd to write these replies hence my one slipup statement that even then does not prove your point because you are trying to justify the existence of a perk that turns off aura reading buy using 3 low tier aura perk of example so I don't think you have played both roles enough or understand dbd well enough.

I will only reply one more time because you still have not justified distortions existence which is what i keep bringing up

It would be useless unless you're in favour of giving Aura Reading perks 3 non replaceable tokens or greatly increasing the activation requirements.

It is possible to find survivors without aura reading and stealth is part of the game. What do you think Killers did before all of the aura reading perks became so common?

Assuming this is for us

In reality, distortion will counter all of your aura reading if you don't bring about 3 aura perks, sometimes 2, or play a killer that can turn off their terror radius. The what you put in it to what you get out of the perk is wildly unbalanced.

Old distortions was a mid perk but it wasn't useless it just does not need the changes.

Awakened awareness, Gearhead, No where to hide, Lightborn and blood warden (yes, they in fact can if the survivor is stupid enough), undying (map dependent), and weave attunement are the aura perks that can chew through the 3 tokens very rapidly on their own (some under conditions as mentioned). Then we get into all the add ons for powers which we're not going to list. These things all chew through the initial 3 tokens you get and to get more you usually have to put yourself in the danger zone of a killers tr (some maps make this easier than others).

If we're going into "put into what you get territory" we're going to end up with a longer list so we're just say all the change did was give a sound que and add a way to gain tokens and thats by being close to the killer (aka potential death in most cases). We're going to ask if you think that seriously broke it.

Languid touch im using as an example of a perk existing solely to counter other perks that are strong, its the direction i see the game going in and it's just lame.

Cool. That's your opinion on the mater.

Distortion creates this scenario its kinda a big point

So now we're going to ask for clear clarification here. This is the full picture we're getting of this conversation:

 As for boring gameplay, thats how the game is. If the killer camps do you really expect survivors to just trade till death?

Yes but making the safest option the most boring one just kinda suck the fun out of the game. Personally, I think hooks should kill a little faster base but the higher the anti-camp meter is even if you don't get to unhook the slower the hook kills the survivor because i think forcing someone to die just sucks and I don't like the current solution which is to bring a perk like Reassurance

Well safe is in itself boring no? If theres no risk theres no thrill and either someone takes a risk or no one gets thrills. While we'd like to see somethin like that, topic is diverging to far for our tastes here.

Distortion creates this scenario its kinda a big point

How is Distortion itself causing this and not the player's choice? Is Distortion forcing the killer to camp? No. Is Distortion forcing the survivor to take risks? No. Is Distortion making the safe option, which is doing gens and getting out, the boring option? No. Sooooo…

True but a healthy balance does not mean an equal one. From what ive seen most people seem to agree that interaction with the killer is what they define as healthy, personally i don't think that's a fair way of putting it because you can have a OTR/DS player body blocking the killer then going down mid chase and that interaction or a nurse blitzing a lobby but a fair fight and interaction together is important and that kinda means stealth needs to be limited and chases need to be of primary importance.

Your gona need to define and clarify "fair" and "primary importance" as we've repeated the bacon joke to many times already. Especially since this is an asym game.

You seem to accept my subjective opinion right after this that

We only agreed with that last part. And its still subjective, its just a subjective view we agree on. If someone else wants to change our minds they're free to try.

Saying something is subjective is not a counterpoint just agree to disagree but don't say xyz is subjective as if its an argument because almost all balance opioons without an essay to back them up can be taken as subjective its why I'm having to overjustify basic's and i dont want to be rude but it is getting on my nerves.

See though, alot of things are subjective when it comes to whats balanced or not. Even with an essay, its just trying to change peoples minds unless they put actual facts into it. This whole debate it to try and change your subjective opinion with arguments and occasionally certain facts. For example of the following which can be argued?: Distortion blocks aura reading while it has tokens, Distortion is token based and has so many uses before it needs to recharge, Distortion is OP because it can recharge tokens. Out of these only 1 can be argued correct? You claim this and that as facts but your only throwing opinions and theories and we're responding in kind. For example: "but what you bring should not be as boom or bust a decision", "Old distortions was a mid perk but it wasn't useless it just does not need the changes." "it's not nice to be forced to play a slower match to accommodate for your teammate who won't take any pressure." These are opinions and the third one in particular implies everyone who runs distortion won't take pressure, which is a subjective opinion and not fact. We know not every distortion user is a coward.

My personal view is that regardless of a perks strengths if running that perk by itself makes a specifc players preform disproportionality better than the average player gets out of the perk and they cannot compete as well without it even if the perk is "weak" which im not saying distorion is. It is a crutch for that player.

Like you said anything "can" be a crutch but its fair to say a disproportionate amount of players are crutched on windows compared to other perks.

Think of it like this. If they nerfed windows it would not be a thing I care about but for many players it would not just be a nerf to the perk it would feel like a nerf to them personally as a player as they can not preform to the levels they currently are preforming to without it. That means they crutched on windows in my view.

I know I'm crutched in sprint burst I always run the perk when I play suv its too good so if it was nerfed I would be a worse survivor for it because even if I would not just be a bad player overnight the crutch pushing me a little higher would be gone.

Very well. Going by that definition then yes Distortion can become a crutch to specific players. Its admittedly confusing us as your definition implies a case by case basis. For example: "perk by itself makes a specifc players preform disproportionality better than the average player gets out of the perk" means to us that that player is crutching on it. But what of the players using it and still as good as the average player? Its not a crutch to them. Does it still make distoriton a crutch because some overly rely on it while the masses are fine?

Do you still think that really justifies distortion?

Yes, as a matter of fact, because it supports the argument I've been holding from the very start. If you want to play with the stealth aspect of the game, you -need- Distortion. You tried to refuse that claim, and now you've had to walk it back.

The fact that this entire gameplay style is dependent on Distortion is enough to justify it.

On the killers they are used you can still counter them

Except you can't. I thought you realised that by now.

I never said they are not picked I said they are bad.

'Scuse you?

You don't locker dodge them because you don't need to. It's really that simple they are not often used perks

You don't need to be able to counter the 3 darkness-revealed Ghostface players quing right now

having you pull these examples that dont happen out of the hat makes me feel like bren

The theory does not matter if it never happens I'm sorry when it's used you can tell.

You seem to have forgotten that that is exactly what you said amidst your flurry of throwing things at the wall to see if something sticks.

it cuts out the least fun part of the game

Least fun for you, perhaps. But there's others to account for too. I enjoy stealth. Why do you get to bring a perk that disables my playstyle and my perks, but I can't bring a perk to protect me from that?

Its a dumb perk and nothing you have said has proven me wrong on this after days of posting.

Except everything I've said.

I will only reply one more time because you still have not justified distortions existence which is what i keep bringing up

I have done plenty to justify its existence. You just failed to engage with any of it.

Hell, even YOU have done some work to justify its existence. After all, if massive aura reading powercreep is just 'the game going a direction', then Distortion being in the game similarly justifies its own existence.

It's just the game going a direction.

Just not a direction you, specifically, like.

Wow thanks for the education. I really love learning. I hear you about discussing cheating. I’ve tried mentioning cheating too and people usually are reluctant to believe anyone who thinks cheating is happening.