Is everyone sick of Hillbilly at this point?
My teammates continue to kill themselves on hook whenever they verse him, and I'm a solo queue player so this obviously is annoying to deal with, that and having to deal with engravings that make overdrive miserable to deal with.
Hillbilly has been so common for me and I just want normal matches where people don't kill themselves on hook, people are treating him like Skull Merchant where they want nothing to do with him, and when I play him the amount of salt I get is pretty surprising, I thought people like playing against him? I'm guessing his buffs made him too much for some?
People I've encountered say he's the new "Blight", or that they will instantly kill themselves on hook whenever they see a Hillbilly, I myself won't go to that level, but he can be quite difficult to deal with, but I do enjoy chases with him from time to time.
What are your thoughts on him, is anyone else having similar experiences?
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I heavily dislike Hillbilly and I always have. Never joined the Hillbilly mafia that say he's "so fun to play against". He's 2nd only to Spirit to me for "annoying to face" killers.
That said, I never gave up against him or any killer for that matter. Other players are another story, they give up against him all the time in my experience. But that's what happens when players (survivors mostly) encourage and excuse giving up at the slightest inconvenience instead of pushing people not to do it.
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I'm very mixed with Billy mainly because I feel like I'm having more fun in chase when he's not in overdrive, I feel like I have a chance, but when overdrive kicks in, it's instant death because I have no time to react because he's so fast.
His ability to have overdrive so much is honestly what makes him sometimes annoying to verse.
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As a billy main myself who only M2's regardless of outcome, what do you feel your common issues are with him? Engravings don't make him hard to deal with. It's actually harder to master Billy running engravings and it's encouraged for the average player not to use them unless you've really put in time on him. The more casual players will struggle running engravings while predicting flicks and feathering in the windows while trying to get the turn rate right. I will say the difference between playing against a mid level Billy player vs a master is….a very noticeable change.
To shine light on it I mean Billy has struggled for a long time so it's actually good that he's getting a hefty influx in play time. I've been playing him for years and even with the changes it still lands him in the middle of the pack of the 6-7 killers at the top for kill rates. I think one thing people get triggered by and I'll admit it myself. Is getting hit by ridiculous flicks and that is what results in people giving up. I remember going up against some blight players that knew how to moon rush or do crazy techs and I'm just like….wow. It almost feels hopeless and I totally get it.
There is one thing you can do against Billy that most people don't use and that is crouching when he's sawing. It actually affects his hitbox on a massive level and sometimes crouching to the left or right of his saw path makes him miss A TON.
I will agree overdrive makes his cross map presence on large maps with lanes borderline ridiculous but that is hard countered on the other end with maps iike Leary's where you're almost forced to M1.
For sake of conversation what add-ons are you noticing the most that you're losing to? Is it high prestige Billy's running engravings? Are they only hitting M2's? Are they doing a mix?10 -
I'm not really sure if it's just hillbilly. I see it on any killer almost now. Seems like every other game someone suicides on 1st hook or disconnects because of the killer or they were first down. Notice it a lot playing as survivor and a lot as killer anymore.
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Sometimes engravings as his speed can be quite difficult to deal with, his turn-rate I feel can be very deadly if the Billy knows what their doing in chase, I feel like with an type of turn-rate add-on will make things harder as they can turn around loops very easily.
I'm not a very good looper I'm going to be very honest with you, so this may be a skill issue on my end, but I feel that he's a lot more fair when not in overdrive and easier to avoid get instadowned with, overdrive as a whole shouldn't exist in my opinion, I welcome criticism and advice since you do main him, some tips will be appreciated, I must ask though, what's your advice on avoiding getting instadowned in general when looping since he can flick with a turn around a loop very easily, along with the speed of overdrive I find it difficult to counter in my experience!
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- Gonna break down your post so bear with maybe I can help shed some light on it and before I even begin I know he can be quite the wild ride so I'm always open to suggestions when it comes to him even though I will say I enjoy his current form.
Sometimes engravings as his speed can be quite difficult to deal with, his turn-rate I feel can be very deadly if the Billy knows what their doing in chase, I feel like with an type of turn-rate add-on will make things harder as they can turn around loops very easily.
So running double turn rate addons can actually be more of a crutch that has a negative effect more than anything. Long term it's gonna make players lean on that instead of developing the sense they should get to further their ceiling as a player and you'll notice that these players more than likely spend time trying to mindgame loops they should just bite the bullet at and as time develops I'm sure you'll see that. I will say engravings on a good Billy that understands it. It can become heavy. I personally still use lo-pro mostly because I enjoy the flicks I can get after breaking something and my other fallback is the muffler because it gives me time to catch survivors out of place. If it seems engravings are being overused I wouldn't mind them being tuned as it isn't my primary to begin with.
I'm not a very good looper I'm going to be very honest with you, so this may be a skill issue on my end, but I feel that he's a lot more fair when not in overdrive and easier to avoid get instadowned with, overdrive as a whole shouldn't exist in my opinion.
The fact that you're willing to even admit that says enough about you that most won't admit and that is a good thing. Some people for whatever reason feel belittled by intelligence instead of being inspired by it. You showing the want to learn says more than most.
The crazy part is he's actually harder to control during overdrive. With his reving windows being smaller and his speed being quicker. You'll find more Billy's taking wider turns during overdrive because they simply have to. You can actually exploit this. You know how when going against a nurse if you put an object between you and her it becomes kind of a 50/50 right? She's gonna have to guess where you are and blink that way. The best thing you can do at that point is put something between you and him. Chances are if it seems like a weird angle for him to bend around? It probably is but like you said it yourself. That will come with time facing him.
Always remember. He has most control at the beginning of his saw and less during the middle and end of it. If you can put distance between you and him he has to go further on a more direct path to get you. You'll also notice more on indoor maps you should bury him alive because it becomes more a rat maze with multiple ways to put things between you and him and him not having sightlines and it becomes an entire gamble at that point for him.some tips will be appreciated, I must ask though, what's your advice on avoiding getting instadowned in general when looping since he can flick with a turn around a loop very easily, along with the speed of overdrive I find it difficult to counter in my experience!
You know how you go to a car dealership to test drive something you think about buying? Best tip I can give you is even at a very surface level if you go into a bot game as Billy and just get a feel of what the rev timings feel like or feathering the saw. That information you learn alone will do you so much. As far as learning the Billy mind games. That will come with time.
Hopefully some other Billy enjoyers come through but other than that.
The saw is the law.1 -
Weird my entire post just deleted. Pretty sure it was on my end.
Not gonna rewrite the entire thing but I will say good on you for admitting you're not a good looper. Most won't admit that and that says a lot. For whatever reason most feel belittled by intelligence instead of feeling inspired by it.
Best tips I can give you:
1) Break sightlines
2) Put things in between you and him like facing a nurse so it's hard for him to see you so he has to 50/50
3) Billy has more control of his saw at the beginning of it and less at the end so create distance if you can
4) Indoor maps you should be able to apply both of these and he will struggle the most
Another thing you could do which would help you massively. Go into a bot game as billy and feel how long it takes to rev and if you get even a surface level feeling of it. It will help a ton.3 -
Thank you, I will be using these tips to help. I practice in 1v1s with my looping and it's been getting better, I'm looking forward to improving more. 😀
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Also. Remember he has to follow the same looping patterns as any other killer to catch downs at loops and tile sets. Just you might see him utilize more of the outside of the tiles to get saws lined up.
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Probably because so many people play him now.
He got boring for these people.
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honestly I’ve just never found hillbilly that fun to play against it’s always been leatherface for me although that isn’t fair I guess since his older kit was #########
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The chase with hillbilly is fun trying to make him bump but there is a frustrating aspect to playing against Billy which is the time it takes Billy to hook then immediately be on somebody else creates an obnoxious amount of pressure.
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Every Hillbilly solo queue game is the same. Lethal pursuer where someone gets downed in the first 10 seconds of the match. 50/50 on whether they give up on the hook. Then the game is pretty much over. It's understandable that no one wants to play against him anymore. You just know it's not going to be a fun experience.
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Similar to MrPenguin. We've disliked Billy pretty much since we started. Our tin foil hat believes the "Billy is fun to go against" group were all Billy mains. That said, people giving up at the sight of Billy is news to us (not exactly surprising with how players are lately though).
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Why hate Billy? He's not really too much different from before and he's not buffed to old billy level, I think he's fun to face and play as personally, the chase is what makes it for me though the battles you have with a billy that knows their stuff will have you on the edge of your seat, I think BHVR needs to design more killers like him so maybe I'm the minority here.
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'having to deal with engravings that make overdrive miserable to deal with.'
When his chainsaw becomes blue, he has to control much better their turns and sometimes it is a advantage for the survivor in the short loops or if he crounching because the aim is more difficult during overdrive.
We had some others versions of Hillbilly but they were not as balanced as it was actually (needed speed add-ons to be effective). But I still think his speed during & out of his overdrive need some little adjustements.
But I'm member of the Hillbilly mafia that say he's "so fun to play against" so I don't know…0 -
Although it takes a lot of skill to do it, since he can turn almost 180 degrees when he heats up the chainsaw, it's no longer fun, because it was a more or less good counter to deal with in rectangular loops, that buff should never have happened.
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The buff to the curve window tilts chase balance too much in his favor at most loops in the game. He can turn a corner blindly and still have enough control time to react to whatever mindgame you choose. This changes his counterplay from risk/reward greeding at loops to prethrow the pallet or die. And if he has Thompsons Mix and/or LoPro you still die anyways.
I don't take streamer opinions as gospel but I do think this statement is accurate.
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Whenever a killer becomes popular among killer players, they become unpopular among survivor players. This is mostly due to overexposure and some people convincing themselves that there is no point in playing against XYZ killer anyway.
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People will always hate something whether it be due to over exposure, it being too strong, it being annoying, ect. Hill billy is fine for probably most people but even if ~10% of people give up against something on sight that ruins, ~27% of solo queue matches end right at the start.
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Everyone will be sick for literally every popular killers, it doesn't even matter whether they are balanced or not
Perhaps we should stop listening to those who pathetic enough to the point they can't even stay on a match, and finally remove the capability to throw the game without any consequence
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I love Billy. Always have and always will. I don’t like his overdrive. They should have left him as he was before they tried overheat and over charge. People who don’t like him are probably not playing against him properly
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Or perhaps we should stop balancing a pvp game around one side consistently winning more than the other, and then being surprised when the other side feels like they don't have a fair chance. Tugging on hook was in the game for 7 years but wasn't a "problem" until the devs started balancing for unfair kill percentages.
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Sorry, if you believe game is balanced for one side, you are new or intentionally ignoring anything that doesn't match with your narrative
That's one big of a bias
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Is it bias when the devs literally admit they balance the game unfairly for killers? The more killers that get omega-buffed into 60-70% win rates, the more playing survivor, especially solo queue, feels hopeless and depressing. But sure lets punish survivors more!
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Kill rate is not win rate.
Example: you get a 2K every game. 50% kill rate, 0% win rate.
Only a 3K+ is a win for the killer. Hence balancing for 50% kill rate is balancing for the killer to lose more often than not. It needs to be nudged up a little to be between 2K and 3K to be a balanced win rate for the killer, which is between 50-75%, specifically around 62.5% . Which is exactly what they're aiming for.
Afaik we have no information on win rates from the devs.
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They also state that the game deviates from that when SWF is brought into the equation.
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This killer main math that been debunked multiple times. I'm not going to bother doing it again. Pretending that a 2k is a "loss" for the killer but a win for survivors is flawed. 50% chance of living or dying is fair. Anything else is not.
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The only reason I didn't mind Hillbilly before was that he was pretty weak, now that's he's really good he's just annoying to go against. Same with Bubba, ALWAYS hated going against Bubba because anyone with in-built insta-down isn't really fun.
Plus as solo queue you aren't gonna win anyway against him so why bother?
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i get that people think hes overtuned, thats understandable, but ill always see giving up on hook because you dont like the killer as selfish and dumb...anyway i loved billy before and i love billy now, has nothing to do with his power or anything tbh i just think hes cute :]
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Same. I’ve always hated playing against him. His chainsaw always managed to impale my derrière no matter how stealthy I played. I actually prefer going against Spirit, Nurse, Blight and a Slug Master Twins player over him.
That’s not to say I think he’s overpowered. I fully admit I’m bad, but I do think he’s super frustrating to face.
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It’s simple why a lot of people don’t like going against him. He crosses the map in 3 seconds, insta downs someone, hooks them and gets a BBQ and Chili proc, crosses the map again in 3 seconds and downs someone else. Even mediocre Billie’s can win games easily as long as it’s not an indoor map. Not to mention he is insane at camping
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I feel so vindicated when I told people that survivors will start dcing/giving up against billy if he wasnt trash anymore. And people called me delusional and that him being good didnt matter because survivors want to verse fun killers not weak ones necesarily.
Man was I so right at that time, people only enjoyed billy because 9/10 with old billy escaping a chase and dunking on him was very easy.
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It's not "killer main math" it's just math and reasoning. What is a 2K? A draw. Is that a win for win rate? no. What is? A 3K. So if 2K is the most you can get while not winning and 3K is the minimum to win, you need something in the middle to win half the time. If 50% is a 2K and 75% is a 3K what's in the middle? 62.5%. It has not been debunked just because you refuse to change your mind.
I didn't say it was a loss, it's just not a win. It's not a win for all 4 survivors either. For the survivors a 2K is 2 wins and 2 losses. For the killer however its a draw.
The game is asymm, the condition for "fair "is different than other games. Its not a simple as "50% kill rate means 50% win rate". Only 2 kills means 2 survivors still won. In the same 2K every game example that would be a 50% survivor win rate but 0% for killer. 3K means 1 survivor still won.
Just because the killer wins, draws, or loses doesn't mean all 4 survivors also won or loss. Again, because the game is asymm.
Post edited by MrPenguin on1 -
I still like playing against him, yeah he is harder to dodge when in overdrive but I still think he can bring enjoyable matches. I think people dislike him now because he is probably the #2 killer right now in the correct hands
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It's not hard to figure out that people want a fair game. Billy is grossly overturned and after using him a little while you basically never lose. That's a problem in a PvP game imo.
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Define fair game, because old hillbilly wasnt fair either. He was incredibly easy to beat and even if the killer player was really good if survivors brought certain maps or just knew how to loop you were done.
Yes there were some specimens that somehow managed to get 4kd by old billy, which is just...LMAO. I dont think its fair that if a good survivor team versed an usually good billy the billy will lose.
I agree however current billy is incredibly strong, specially against soloQ, who already has trouble against trapless trapper.
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The problem i have is he switches from normal to overdrive too frequently which messes up timing to dodge or react to billy i think it should take longer to get overdrive but overdrive is longer when you do get it
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bro you clearly don’t understand old Billy. Old Billy was peak in performance and balance. Over heat mechanic didn’t hurt him and over charge barely helps him. Saying old Billy was easy to beat makes me want to horse laugh. Billy is the type of character that can shaft you if you give him the opportunity too. Those who dc against him need to get a grip
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Ye, hes getting really annoying at this point. every 3-4 games there is a billy.
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I barley see him. This is just another case of people acting spoiled, and DCing against a killer until they get nerfed.
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That's my boy. If the heal isn't worth it, then don't. That's what more people need to realize.
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Fair as in survivors not dying within 10 seconds of a match. Every match against him is a 4K with 3-5 gens remaining.
Incredibly strong is an understatement.
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Another problem is that I’m trying to do generators and my teammates refuse to help until I heal them when it’s a Hillbilly, at that point were wasting time, it gets really annoying.
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Billy has been over tuned he's almost impossible to counter I've been out of line of sight and they still flick around the loops. There is no point as people have said playing against them. Not only that the amount of them that just go back to hook to down the person unhooking is beyond a joke. That along with seeing them nearly every other match is just boring.
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Hillbilly is completely balanced at decent / high level. And that's good. One thing I would change is changing his intial turn rate time from 1 second to 0.8 seconds and that's all. This Killer against a better Survivors will struggle.
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I kind of am, I see overdrive as nothing more than rewarding players who are bad at using his power. Oh you missed 6 chainsaws in quick succession? Instead of encouraging you to get better at using his power, we'll just make it 10x easier for you to hit it instead.
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I enjoyed playing as Billy before Overdrive was a thing, but even more so after. I’m terrible at looping, but I love going against Hillbilly. I think it’s so fun to take chase with Hillbilly because if he’s using the chainsaw it’s high risk high reward. I believe this bc if he hits he gets pressure, but if he misses and you can loop decently he can waste a great deal of time trying to get you with the chainsaw. It feels fast-paced and exciting to me to both play as and go against him.
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I'm less sick of Billy and more of the players that are currently playing him. It's the 'this killer just got buffed and I am going to sweat with them while they're strong for the 4k of least resistance' crowd. Not really a Billy problem - hell, this was Freddy once - but it's currently correlating to Billy = unfun because these players usually aren't fun to go against.
As far as killers I dislike versing, though, he's not even in my top ten.
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He is worse than blight. He has all the mobility and a one hit down too.
Honestly, for me him having no cooldown on his ability is far too OP and it’s resulted in so many miserable matches.
I used to love Billy because he was fun to play against. Lots of billy killers were just there to have a good time and I think the majority of the survivors vibed with that but now every Billy is an easy slug for the 4K sweat box and it’s really going against him.
What is there to do to demonstrate that you don’t enjoy playing against him.? Nothing really so voting with your feet really is the only option. That’s why the Trickster was so poorly chosen - not because he was weak but because everyone used to just give up or DC against him and killers got bored of it and chose others. Sadly, BHVR took this as him needing a buff which just further made him unbearable.
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