Are Yall Really TRIPPING About Hook Respawn???
Sometimes the DBD community frustrates me with how quick they are to flip out over something that seems big but with 2 seconds of thinking makes you realize that it's not ever that serious.
I've been seeing folks all over Twitter, Tiktok, YouTube comments, etc, complaining about how in the next update, hooks after survivors are sacrificed on them will respawn after 60 seconds, discussing how it's a bad idea and how "unfair" it is. First off, I'm a survivor main. I believe that the game right now is steering ALOT towards the killer side and solo queue is at its worst. But sometimes I feel like all you survivor mains see is "random basekit killer buff" and are automatically up in arms about it when sometimes these buffs once again are nothing if you really sit and think about it for 2 seconds.
When as a survivor have you ever gotten CONSISTENT value off of a hook that is broken due to it being used after sacrificing a survivor? I bet you can only count on 1 hand. It's something that RARELY happens. Plus even then, Hooks are SO close to each other now that it doesn't really matter if a certain hook is broken. They'll just take you to the next one. For you to get value off of a broken hook, you would need to…
- Run and get downed (IF YOU CAN) around that hook
- Have the killer sacrifice everyone in the nearby hooks, making any nearby hook broken, giving the killer no chance to hook you OR have someone sabotage a hook nearby (Not a common occurrence btw)
- Pray the killer even picks you up because at that point, they can and will just slug you if need be.
All of these hypothetical scenarios happening in every match is a very small chance. And even then, if ALL of this was to happen, there's a even SMALLER chance these scenarios will help you win a match. There's so many variables that usually never happen in most games that makes you wonder why respawn hooks are even such a big deal.
Second, killers don't HAVE to hook you to kill you. There's slugging and Memento Moris, both can be achieved via perks meaning they can get guaranteed value almost every game. If killers can already kill you without hooks, then what makes a difference if they're able to?
The whole discussion of just saying "Hook respawn bad" with not actually counter argument just doesn't make any sense. What also doesn't make any sense is the "pick me" killer mains who go "I'm a killer main and this is bad" this is a buff. Hell this ain't even a buff more like a QoL change but even then, why yall as killer even saying this? If you played killer you know that hooks becoming broken after sacrificing a survivor is inconvenient as hell. Why would you be okay with the opposite?
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It's very good QoL on certain maps that are multi-level. It negates dead zones that killers have. Like you said the chance of this stuff happening are uncommon but this will help alleviate those issues and encourage less "run to the corner without a hook around" play by some survivors.
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I think people are upset because it was the equivalent of survivors accidentally 3-genning themselves. As in if a killer sticks to one side of the map and just patrols those gens and hooks on that side, it gets to a point where they are forced to slug because they used up the hooks on one side of the map. They created a hook dead zone.
People were mad when anti 3-gen came out too, as 3-genning was seen as a result of survivors own misplays or lack of map sense. Hooks used to be like that too. Now depending on the generator placement, a killer might not have to leave part of the map at all, and still be able to hook everyone on the same side they’re patrolling gens at. You don’t have to think about your hooks anymore now really, you can kinda just go to whatever one you see first.
I think it’s a healthy overall change but I can understand some concerns.9 -
This change is fine imo.
People are complaining about everything these days, so...
Also, it makes Badham slightly.... SLIGHTLY.... better to play on.
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Sometimes (maybe even most of the time) this communities biggest enemy is itself.
You couldn't actually enforce this but if everyone had to play both roles the community would be a much better place, too often the conversation is poisoned by people that only play one side and only know half the story.
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I think my issue with it is that it doesn't really seem necessary. This is basically the one thing killers need to keep track of in their macro game and that's being removed completely now.
Most everyone brings up the slugging issue... If we're targeting slugging then slug for the 4k should be the absolute first thing looked at. That is incredibly common, where hook dead zone slugging is, at best, very rare. It also doesn't do anything for slugging out of spite, and I've been slugged for 4 minutes after crawling with the killer to fully functional hook. Also rare, but why not fix that too?
We haven't seen how this affects scourge hooks yet, so that could be an issue where we're introducing 'god' scourge hook spawns for no reason whatsoever. Scourge hooks were designed to be consumable, but now likely aren't. That doesn't seem necessary either.
And finally, if we flip it: what if survivors could just complete the same generator repeatedly. Gen completes, you get full completion credit, then a few seconds later just go back and work on it again. That sounds ridiculous, and honestly unnecessary. So why are we doing this with hooks?
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The BHVR community are the undisputed kings of complaining the next update looks pretty good, Knight won't be drop guard at pallet anymore Singularity is getting a buff a lot of useless perks are getting tweaks, but we HAVE to complain about something so we're gonna complain about hooks respawning. I'm all for calling out BHVR for doing dumb ######### but the day BHVR community isn't complaining the oceans will dry up
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It's odd to me because the only times I get into those situations as killer is when survivors rush to a corner they know only has one or two accessible hooks so the last two can stall indefinitely by rushing to it once those hooks are gone.
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Anyone complaining about it has obviously been pampered for far too long.. xD
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Funny part is that hangman trick was originally this. They just removed it and made it basekit.
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The problem is that deadzones, whether caused by survivors or killers, just make the game unfun for both sides. Survivors don't like being slugged and killers don't like not being able to hook.
Same reason as 3-gens got fixed, whether they were caused by survivors or the killer, they made the game unfun.
Same reason Breakdown needs to be changed.
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Yeah, it’s a tactic for sure. Similarly , when I play killer and I know pallets have been used in a certain area, I’ll zone them towards there in chase for a down. If you know your opponent has used up resources, you can take advantage of that.
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It's so obvious how hooks despawning forever is bad. It really just exists as a way for survivors to be petty like, "Ha ha! You technically didn't kill me because you didn't hook me!" and deny killer points for no reason.
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I’ve had matches where I accidentally created a dead zone and the last survivor went down there and ended up crawling all the way to a hook cuz they didn’t want to sit on the ground for 4 minutes.
A hook dead zone would result in an escape in maybe 1 of 1,000 games. I’ve been playing 5 years and a hook dead zone has helped a total of 2 survivors escape. It’s really not that big of a deal and helps prevent slugging.
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People are in fact tripping. This change only benefits both sides.
It's good for Killers because now, they don't need to deal with hook deadzones on top of buffed sabotaging (which is why this change was likely introduced), comp corners/corner-teching, AND horrible hook spawns. It's great quality of life for multi story indoor maps, it protects against some very obnoxious styles of Survivor play, and it generally keeps the flow of a round much smoother while allowing Killers to lock down an area again but in a much more nuanced way - crucial for mid to late game and also makes certain things, like not breaking a three-gen, even riskier. It adds strategy. Do you really want to just slam the first gens you see knowing that the Killer could hold a cluster there with the respawning hooks? Do you really want to sabotage that hook knowing there's more nearby that just respawned after your friend died? It takes lots of the sting out of a sabotage and feels way less malicious now. It even helps against Survivors who come in and do this maliciously - and yes they DO exist, I've played in SWFs with some of them before - just to deny the Killer hook points and be super petty.
It's good for Survivors too because aside from the aforementioned strategy, it makes a good sabotage play feel more like the counterplay it was intended to be. It also means now, there's no more slugging (except to actually be toxic) in hook dead zones, meaning less unintended slugging overall, meaning now we can truly say there's no real reason to slug except to a) pressure before a hook respawns, b) be a toxic jerk, c) your Killer is good at it. It turns pressuring downs into the strategy it was always intended to be. It was deadass annoying to run into an unintentional hook deadzone and get slugged because the Killer just couldn't find another hook in time and the random wanted to run a sabo-wiggle build so they brought Petrified Oak, now I get to bleed on the ground yaaaayyyy fun engaging gameplay. /s Now this is less likely to happen. It also makes perks like Saboteur and Breakdown more viable, and it opens the way for BHVR to safely make more perks based around hooks and hook denial without it feeling like a big ######### You to Killers like my Main who may not be able to pressure that type of play as well as say, Hillbilly. It ADDS value, at the cost of removing a - let's face it - pretty obnoxious and unfun strategy.
The one concern I have is that it might increase some Killers locking areas down too much (specifically zoning and speedy Killers like Skull Merchant, Trapper, Hag, Blight, Knight, Nurse, Oni, and Legion), and it might increase tunneling the same hook over and over after about a minute. But if Weaving Spiders is fine at one minute I don't see why a one minute respawn on hooks coming back is such a problem.
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There's no concerns. It's not the same thing as a 3-gen, because you can still do gens in a 3-gen. You can't physically hook someone if they go down in a deadzone. I almost thought that the OP was gonna address this, but what major advantage is there to a killer hooking people on the same hook, even in a 3-gen? Ultimately, the killer cannot be in 2 places at once, and someone needs to go for hook, and the rest need to pressure gens. The killer can either hit the person who's pushing gen, or look to get a hook trade, not both. I think survivor biased people, when they're talking about balance, ignore the fact that the killer is forced to choose something rather than getting the best of both worlds, while simultaneously expecting the best of both worlds for themselves, pressuring gens while also not being pressured during the unhook.
No, you still have to think about hooks as you always did. But now, the "map awareness" is equal between the killer and survivors. Survivors and killers both worry about gens and hooks. The killer doesn't additionally have to worry about not hooking someone on a hook they might need at the end of the game, but are they even dead on hook?, but if I go for a further hook will I make it?, will there be bodyblockers or saboteurs?, but then I miss out on my Scourge Hook, yadda yadda. It's unreasonable to make the killer think all of that about hooking, which you have to do to win, while survivors just need to wiggle on their shoulder and that's it. It's asking all killers to have higher level game knowledge and awareness, over a stupid mechanic, when survivors can't even be asked to touch generators (those who play solo knows what I mean).
So I only see positives from this change, and it's a good thing that there wasn't a counterbalance added onto this like usually comes with killer changes.
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Or any map, for that matter.
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This is basically the one thing killers need to keep track of in their macro game
Ah yes, killer don't have to think about much else. Not the progress and strategic positioning of up to 7 gens, not the hook states on 4 survivor (with potential same characters and cosmetics), not their constant rough whereabouts, not the dropped/broken pallets and walls, not the 16 perks on said survivors and who has what...amongst other stuff. Nah, killer have it chill and easy, no attention needed as a casual player. /S
And finally, if we flip it: what if survivors could just complete the same generator repeatedly. Gen completes, you get full completion credit, then a few seconds later just go back and work on it again.
Sure, but only if survivor also have to chase down some parts or whatever half across the map, taking 20 to 60+ seconds to find.
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But you don't have to track any of that. In fact, a lot of killer games are 'chase the first guy you found until he's dead', and if you do that fast enough you outright win the game. No tracking, no complicated anything, just tunnel.
You seem to also have skipped the important part of my statement without answering it:
That sounds ridiculous, and honestly unnecessary. So why are we doing this with hooks?
The gens example was chosen because it's ridiculous. So why are we making this change?
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If you played on forgotten ruins the dungeon has 1 hook for the entire downstairs once thats gone it becomes an entire deadzone its the new rpd library stairs bs
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I thought they recently guaranteed 4?
In any case, that map is still a good example because when I took a look, some outside hooks can spawn very split to create the corner issue as well unless you run agitation.0 -
If someone seriously tries to argue that "not making deadzones" is still a thing, you know they don't play killer. BHVR got rid of most zones with only one hook years ago. And by the time actual deadzones happen, all survivors are dead anyway
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it has variations but its 1-2 for any of them yeah the map is not good
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Telling me " you don't need to think about all this, just tunnel" when that's one of the main complaints of survivors, isn't an argument.
Second, I only wanted to show that while your argument of "this is unnecessary and ridiculous" might be valid, it was a bad comparison.
And third, I personally don't care if they change hook respawn or not. I don't even play this game anymore, so I won't have an answer for your question.
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