The state of solo survivor is reaching a breaking point
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Oh yeah, everybody hated so much those CoD changes that it stopped being one of the most played PvP competitive shooters in the market right now…
If that's your response to everything I said, I think we are done here.
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I have 3700 hours in this game but im matched with survivors less than 400 hours. Killer on the other hand is someone with 9000 hours and those 400 hour survivors wont last more than 20 seconds. This should not happen.
There is a chance that the matchmaker does this to keep things balanced. For every team that has Survivors who can barely last 10-20 sec in chase, the team probably has one really good looper who can run the Killer for multiple minutes. So in the matchmakers eyes the skills offset each other thus making the game “equal”.
I’m not saying you should feel good about this or accept it or anything like that. Just that I think it is an intended feature of the mmr to keep good Survivors separated from each other. If the matchmaker created teams of players of equal skill level the KR would probably plummet since it’s no longer people forming their own 4 man swf but now the matchmaker forming as many powerful teams as possible.
It would be an interesting experiment to see the matchmaker for a modifier pit the best of the best against each other and with each other.
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I remember Mandy mentioning something similar a long while ago. That ideally, matchmaking will give you a good survivor, a not so good survivor, and two in-betweens (or something similar). I'm not sure if that's still the case, though.
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I don't think it's fair on the more experienced survivors to be expected to carry the team, personally
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Could be, but its not fair to put new or less experienced survivors with the ones that have thousands of hours and know the game pretty well. This causes a lot of frustration. I have personally closed the game due to some less experienced or newer players making my games quite unbearable and thats not healthy for the game.
I also think its not good for the new players to be matched with players who have more experience, especially if they get blight with 9000 hours. ( happened in one of my games and i felt so bad for the new Megladon ).This will just make new players stop playing this game when they get run over in few seconds. This also goes otherway, no new killer should be matched with 5000 hour survivors. Matches where you clearly see the killer is struggling and is new or not as experienced are not fun, at least not for me. I just feel bad since the killer must be feeling crappy.
When i do get survivors with similar experience levels and hours i do notice the difference in my matches. I'm not saying we always 4 man escape, but more often at least 2 people will get out of the gates.
This being said i have noticed the selfish mindset rise up more often even with survivors that have thousands and thousands of hours. They slap perks on that benefit them and hope that everyone dies so they can get hatch or door. I'm not sure why people find this enjoyable or are they just so broken from soloQ that they have given up.
Post edited by Hannacia on2 -
This is exactly how it works. You can feel it out in action.
The problem is that it thinks I'm the good survivor because I've escaped three games in a row from sheer luck or getting carried. Then I'm supposed to carry and I'm simply not that good. You know the games. The ones where you can last 20s in chase but your teammates somehow last five.
That being said I really hate posts like the OP. It's just empty complaining. Solo bad. Ok? How? Why? The killer is finding and downing you. Yes? What do you expect the killer to do? It's just so bad.
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When you measure skill with escapes, the matchmaking will never be good even if you prefer score matching over speed. The entire foundation of this MMR is flawed.
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I mean I'm just stating that the game isn't fun, and different commonly-occurring things that make the game unfun for me and clearly many other people. What do you want me to say?
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I agree, we clearly aren't going to come to any resolution
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Unfortunately, the matchmaking doesn't take into account people who play like douches, like in the first clip I shared. I really couldn't tell you what any of those teammates' skill levels were, but skill level was irrelevant in that situation. Anyone of low or high skill can teabag a slugged teammate for no reason.
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Escapes is the only objective way to measure relative survivor skill, which is what MMR is supposed to do. Everyone falls into the trap of thinking of that one game where the best player died and the bad one escaped. MMR isn't a measurement of one player's experience in a small handful of games. Over hundreds of thousands of games against a common set of opponents, a good survivor will escape more than a bad one. That's all MMR is trying to measure.
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Doesn't matter, even if you create it by chase time and average gen progression or something. I wouldn't want precise match making, if it means increased queue times.
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Sole Survivor + hiding all game = top MMR meta
Looping for 5 gens and dying while going for end-game saves = noob low MMR pick
Got you
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The old rank-based matchmaking did a pretty good job, at least compared to what we have now. At least it took some skill to reach red ranks before rank reset.
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Feels exactly the same as it did for me years ago. I don't think there's been much change at all much less a breaking point.
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Yeah, I think the system was good enough. It simply separated players based on their current playtime…
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I stopped playing around the time Nic Cage came out because of how bad it felt to play solo survivor. Kind of kept up with changes to the game but because I was not playing only some stuck. I hopped in for My Little Oni and Chaos Shuffle to check them out. Decided to come back for anniversary so started playing a bit before it began to get back into the swing of things. I only made it through the first level of the event tome but I don't think I can keep playing, need to go back on my break. Solo survivor feels worse than it did before my break. Same as you described - entire team dying with 4-5 gens left in most of my matches, if someone managed to escape it was through the hatch.
I miss the old rank matchmaking. Was it perfect? No, but it did help in matching survivors with similar play styles so matches as solo felt better. I think they need to bring that back for the survivor team matchmaking so the players that escaped/died while helping the team are matched with eachother while those who play selfish end up matched with eachother.
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We really need an endorsement feature where every player has a hidden "endorsement level" (or Kudos Meter, Reputation Score, whatever you wanna call it). This way, players can give thumbs up to survivors who actually try, making the thumbs up feature a thing.
Give them rewards like BP, BP multipliers, Iri shards, whatever works. And for those survivors who give up right after the first hook? They should be thrown into the absolute worst games imaginable, with Killers that slug at 5 gens and Legion players. They don’t deserve to play anyway.
There, problem solved. Once we get players who actually play, we can see what the real issues with the game are.
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There is a reason why everyone is playing killer currently. Before the event I've escaped maybe 1 in 6-8 games as a solo, roughly speaking. During the event im not even hitting 1 out of 15, easily. Played the whole day, barely escaped more than 5 times. Every game ends with someone killing themself on hook at 5 gens, dead players at about 4 hooks, constantly.
I do know that I am not a pro player, but cmon. Those event killer powers are just insane. Insta-hook, cmon bhvr…Furthermore, EVERYBODY is playing the same killers, over and over and over. cringe merchant, billy, bubba
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Sure. Absolutely. I’ve noticed that other games do something similar.
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Im sorry but thats not fun at all.
Why should experienced players have to carry inexperienced ones? They'd just go play in 4 mans.
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Sure. I just think that it happens to be how the MMR works. It achieves its own version of balance this way.
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That's too bad, because I'd happily stealth to unhook or take a chase for any teammate who needed me.
Perks literally do not equate to what kind of teammate you are. Except self-care. Obviously.4 -
Again, it's measuring across hundreds of games. The handful of games someone hides and still escapes is going to be statistical noise in a system that is taking all games into account. MMR gains are weighted as well. A single gate escape is a smaller MMR gain than getting multiple people out of the gate. Even if Sole Survivor player had the same escape rate as a great looper, their MMR will be lower based on team escape rate.
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But they affect how killer plays.
I had quite often lobbies where there are up 2, or 3 survivors with Distortion. When I have aura reading, unless they show themselves to me, which they rarely do. Those survivors left are going to take all chases.
You can say what you want, but if you are able to take a chase, I don't believe you would use such a build, because it simply loses a purpose.
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what do you say about a Blight with 99% kill rate?
Is it because the Blight is matched with bad survivors like Hens team matched with worse killers?
Or Blight proved that killers is op like youre trying to make the point with Hens team?
No game should ever balance around 5% of players base. And ignore the 95%. Thats how the game dies. Beside, youre in the 95, not the 5. Want the game to balanced around the group that youre not belong is something else.5 -
I personally don't even notice when team mates have Distortion. I played with a (I'm assuming) trio the other day that all had Distortion and Iron Will and I wouldn't have picked it. I was obviously first chase because of Lethal, but that happens sometimes even when my team mates don't have Distortion. So it wasn't out of the ordinary. I've used Distortion maybe once in the past 6 months, I just prefer other perks over it. But I'm constantly being told that I should be upset when team mates use it because they're "rats" or force the killer to tunnel me or so on. I've played for years and honestly can't pinpoint a single time a team mate specifically annoyed me with their Distortion use. I get annoyed plenty by team mates, trust me, but there's no correlation between their uselessness and Distortion use that I've noticed. I personally think it's a necessary perk option for the survivor arsenal.
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I agree that.It's bad players destroy games,and balance is not so effective in most of time
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what do you say about a Blight with 99% kill rate?
I have a better question: What does a Blight with a 99% kill rate have to do with anything that was already talked about? (Spoilers: You are late, you should have kept reading the thread before answering).
But hey, I tell you what: Grab Blight, stream 50 games with him, not count DCs and give ups like Hens did, get that 99% killrate, and resume it in a video so we can
make fallaciesdebate about what it proves or not.Is it because the Blight is matched with bad survivors like Hens team matched with worse killers?
Funny, because when it is convenient to some, Hens is a top pro, high MMR, super-duper player that would never, ever be matched with bad players, not survivors or killers. When it's not, then somehow this top of the top, crème de la crème survivor is matched against bad killers more than 50 times in a row. Who would have thought!
Not that who he was matched against has anything to do with what he does in the video or any of the points I made, but just saying.
Or Blight proved that killers is op like youre trying to make the point with Hens team?
My brother in the Entity… at what point, not just in the post you are responding to but in any other post I made in this thread, have I argued that "Survivors OP"? Please, I need to know!
Also, Hens team? Have you even seen the video? Because he is playing SoloQ with randoms, not "his team".
No game should ever balance around 5% of players base. And ignore the 95%. Thats how the game dies.
Well, like I spoiled to you, you've should keep reading before answering, because this conversation has already been had:
No, really, you should have kept reading before starting to make strawmans like you work at a scarecrow factory.
Beside, youre in the 95, not the 5.
So, do you know my MMR? What is it, because I want to know it too! BHVR keeps it a secret from me, for some reason!…
I mean, you're probably right, but I love that you are assuming when nobody knows his MMR, much less you.
Want the game to balanced around the group that youre not belong is something else.
I already explained who and why a PvP competitive game like DbD should be balanced around. Not who I want it balanced for, but who it should be balanced for, specially if you want it to not die like every other game that was balanced "for the majority". Go read it.
Post edited by Batusalen on2 -
When I played with the Sole Survivor build, I managed to escape more than a half of my soloQ games. I stopped using it because I grew tired of 1v1v1 standoffs, but with enough determination one could use it to consistently reach high MMR.
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- The fact that they only take into account the experiences of "professional players" for balancing (literally their job is to play DBD all day) is something scary. Obviously they have very clear opinions and have a good overall vision... but they do not represent the normality of players AT ALL. Mandy only chimed in to say that Hens' video was "interesting," but didn't even mention that MAYBE there is a real problem. How many years did it take to have an overall improvement for killers? Now it's time to wait YEARS for an improvement of SoloQ. among other things it's a strange marketing strategy... by doing so they drive away potential buyers who play SoloQ and maybe if they enjoyed it more they would be willing to buy new DLC/skins. No, if hens or Otzarva (nothing against these very good guys) say that everything is fine....then you have to stay calm🤣 And we need to stop blaming survivors for survivor “problems”; yes, sometimes survivors are "unskilled and scared", but that's not their "fault"… in other areas this is called "blaming the victim"
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That is one of solo queue's biggest issues. Even when you technically win or draw as a team you can still lose individually and because the people you play with aren't your friends, your personal experience and escape rate matters a lot more than that of the team. This also leads to low morale among many solo queue players. After all, when something goes wrong and you don't consider the team, then there is little reason to keep playing. It feels like you already lost the game right then and there.
I think it would help, if survivors were encouraged to work together as a team a bit more. Too often it feels like it's a 1v1 between a survivor and a killer and of course the survivor pretty much never comes out on top here. But there are 4 survivors, so even if you went down, that doesn't mean you did bad. You were going to go down eventually but you did the best you could and allowed your team to make considerable progress (hopefully).
One way to improve the situation in this regard (and also to bring solo queue even closer to SWFs) is to add ways for survivors to communicate. Just a reminder that you don't fight alone against the killer should be enough to put more emphasis on team play instead of the 1v1. Both are important, so both should be encouraged.
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Thank you very much. Because of this post, that got noticed by Mandy, the devs now won't do anything to help soloQ. Since they now believe it's only soloQ players' fault, and nothing else, not even matchmaking. Thank you, dear, thank you very much.
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To be fair, Otz is always going on about how awful solo queue is and has suggested a bunch of stuff to help make it better.
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I do agree that there is a matchmaking issue at play, but another big problem right now is how they are buffing killers without giving anything to survivors in return. I'm not against killer buffs, but the strongest killer strategies (tunneling and proxy camping) are only made worse with stronger killers and survivors are not getting anything to deal with.
"But you can always bring X and Y perks to counter that" Yes, yes I could. But where is the fun in ALWAYS bringing those perks IN CASE a killer decides to camp and tunnel?1 -
Dramatic, aren't you? Survivors that don't even try being the main problem of DbD's solo experience doesn't mean that there isn't still work to do, other problems to solve, and features to add that those SoloQ players that really want to try and do good need, like I said multiple times in this thread and in the past. One thing doesn't contradict the other, and suggesting the devs don't know that by now is silly (to put it lightly…).
With this said, I only hope we don't really have to wait years to see those happen.
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The main take of your post was "there is nothing to fix, it's just the players who are bad and they deserve it all", and it is the only post among MILLIONS of other complaints about soloQ being unbearable that was actually noticed by someone from BHVR. Yours is the only one out there. So while all the complaints were completely ignored (and will continue to be such), your only take about "just let them suffer, they deserve it" will be the only thing taken into account. So because of it, they now will do nothing to fix soloQ, leaving it in the abyss of hopelessness forever, and now they even have a justification for this, because "hey, the community itself agrees with it!"
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Distortion is an amazing for SWF to scout killer's perks, but for soloQ I believe it's hindrance for everyone.
Of course it depends on specific killer and his perks. I couldn't care less about Distortion as Legion, or Skully.
But when I play Oni with Lethal and BBQ, multiple Distortion players are going to annoy me a lot and if one survivor doesn't have it, they are most likely going to die first unless I decide to tunnel Distortion player from hook.
Of course main issue is not perk, but more of a type of players that use it. Avoid killer at all cost and if killer find them, they last about 10-20 seconds in chase... There is reason why Ultimate Weapon was so hated.
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"The main reason why SoloQ is in that state is because of survivors themselves. […]"
Come on dude, I never said anything even close to "there is nothing else to fix" or "just let them suffer", specially in the post where I specify the things that should be added:
Also, you may have confused me with DbD's Gameplay Design Director or something, but if you really think that BHVR is going to say "cancel every implementation of QoL features for SoloQ" just because of my posts… well, it's just hilarious.
Post edited by Batusalen on4 -
I understand what you're saying, but I see this build as an early game advantage. My sole purpose is to go undetected while doing gens. I'm admittedly a poor looper 69% of the time. I'm more helpful as a medic or an M1 bot in the early game. If I get chased early on, especially if there's a tunneler, team is down to 3v1 fast in many cases. So I'm genning, unhooking, and healing for 1-2 gens. Once teammates are on gens too, I get ballsy, because if I get tunnelled at 3 or 2 gens left, my team is more likely to escape, and I was useful while I was there. I'm less concerned about winning than I am about being useless. I also like being able to take prot hits out of nowhere, because I'm quiet and have bond. And calm spirit is just because the screaming is so effing annoying.
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For a start they need to remove the 4% chance on hook and go from there.
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Game after game of the entire team dying with 4 or 5 gens left. Killers finding and downing survivors within the first 20 seconds of the game starting. Barely even being able to do gens because we practically start off on the back-foot and are just unhooking and healing all game.
This sound like a massive skill issue. I checked streams of survivor mains and losing at 4-5 gens is uncommon.
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Yeah, even if you simply ignore first hooked person it should ends at 3 gen remaining minimum
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This has not been the case during the event in my experience. It's not every game, but I'd put it at 25-33% are 4 person slugs at 4 or 5 gens. It's objectively pretty bad right now. I'm reserving my overall judgement though until a week or two after the event. I'm hoping everything calms back down with regular matchmaking.
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If it's a skill issue, why am I being matched against killers that are clearly far better than me and my teammates?
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Are you talking about the event mode or regular? Event mode has no actual matchmaking, it seems.
Honestly regular matchmaking kinda sucks too though. It's been a commonly discussed problem for a while.
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That's probably just survivors not even doing the gen, I suppose
Objectively speaking, there is no way everyone is slugged within 1 gens done, the slowdown is absolute minimum for slugging and invitation helps only so much for it
Not to mention the risk of everyone getting back with event power, the fact you'll match with slugging killers that much is ridiculous, are you sure survivors are not swarming into killers to do tomes or something
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It's an issue in both modes, but it -has- been much worse in the event mode.
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I'm sure its a mixture of these issues. Hook rushing, too. It's not all killer related in the slightest, but the slugging has been abysmal. I literally thanked a killer in EGC today because he downed me and ran off to find others, but came back and hooked me. That shouldn't be as rare as it is.
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Hook rushing makes more sense because hooking now takes lot less time, it just doesn't makes sense to get slugged that much in a gamemode where there is innate unbreakable for everyone (even though it's not common)
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