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Dredge needs some buffs pretty badly

ReverseVelocity
ReverseVelocity Member Posts: 4,520
edited June 28 in Feedback and Suggestions

I'd like to put this video on here, as it does a very good job of detailing what problems Dredge faces at the moment:

I agree with most things in this video, honestly, the exception being Locks only working at Nightfall and Dredge getting a speedboost coming out of a Locker, apart from that, this video has some really good buff ideas.

The main change I'd love to see to him is making his Daytime teleport significantly faster. Currently, it's only 2m/s faster than Billy's chainsaw, which feels REALLY slow for a teleport power that can only go to predetermined places. It really feels like I'm sat there twiddling my thumbs on longer teleports.

Like, his MAIN thing is teleporting around the map, and Demo, who has it as a secondary power, is almost twice as fast at it. This video suggests 25m/s for Daytime, and 40m/s for Nightfall, which sound kind of reasonable.

I want to bring the discussion about everyone's favourite abomination/turkey/sometimes-a-horse here. What are your opinions on Dredge? How do you think he needs improving, if at all?

Post edited by EQWashu on

Comments

  • SkeletonDance
    SkeletonDance Member Posts: 341

    His teleport speed to lockers could be buffed. It's very slow like demo's.

    I would even prefer nerfing a teleport speed to locker in nightfall and instead buff it normally.

    And maybe faster exiting from a locked locker?

  • Devil_hit11
    Devil_hit11 Member Posts: 8,761

    dredge's gimmick is that he's vampire. he is strong in night time and weak in day time… right? no. that is the issue. I highly doubt they would buff his main gimmick of teleporting in day time to be same as night time. at some point, you lose purpose in having a day and night mechanic. The slower teleport is intentional because his Resign of darkness charges nightfall the more you teleport. Fallen shingle add-on is related to that mechanic. your essentially suppose spend most of your time in day-time to nightfall to prepare a play for nightfall.

    What they could do to buff his teleport speed is reduce number of charges needed to enter nightfall from 300 to 225. this allows him to enter nightfall more often and therefore buff his teleport more often allowing him to make more plays. unfortunately, having faster teleport more often doesn't help if you can't teleport to anything relevant. so he needs nightfall buffs that make his locker teleport more reliable outside of map rng in addition to variable changes.

    The video suggests reducing charge time to 175 and making injures charge 0.5. these changes are counter-productive. you should always avoid counter-productive changes that clash at each other. you end up changing very little about the killer.

  • ReverseVelocity
    ReverseVelocity Member Posts: 4,520

    Unfortunately that is unlikely to happen. It's a lot easier to do a pass on one killer than every single map.

    There's a LOT of room to buff Daytime teleport without it getting anywhere near Nighttime's value. 25m/s and 40m/s are still very far apart.

  • Devil_hit11
    Devil_hit11 Member Posts: 8,761

    i am pretty sure that fallen shingles also applies as you are teleporting from locker to locker. faster teleport in day time means less nightfall charges. i think it is better to reduce nightfall number of charges as it makes the slow teleporting more attractive to use because your building large % of your nightfall per teleport. After that, it is more of just improving nightfall as a whole.

    My impression is that if BVHR does buff him, they'll probably nerf his nightfall visibility making character less unique. They already did that with Clown's Purple gas where purple gas barely has any blinding effect. I don't know why Killer blinding the survivor get nerfed but survivor blinding the killer with flashlight with chain-blinding possibility is **fine.

  • Blueberry
    Blueberry Member Posts: 13,590
    edited June 24

    I really like playing Dredge. He just feels so unnecessarily hindered by maps though. So many are just near auto losses from how bad locker placements are and how few lockers there are. His other main issue is that non nightfall teleports and locker exits are just way too slow. Mid chase teleports to try and cut survivors off are what make Dredge fun, but this play style isn't viable from map design and how slow those teleports are. This is what makes Haddies Calendar and Boat Key basically required just to make this play style "semi" passable, but not even. Dredge actually is one of the few killers that has a lot of interesting and viable addons, but you're just never able to utilize that from the required ones.

    1. More lockers and better locker spawns at gens
    2. Faster teleport and locker exit base line (Haddie's Calendar/Boat Key) and please not a portion of the addons baked in, we would still need them. Even with their full version the teleports mid chase aren't really viable. These aren't "flavor" addons like Demo's were, they're required for function.
    3. Quiet Dredges sounds. You can hear where he's at the whole time in Nightfall. Defeats the point. He honestly shouldn't even be highlighted for that matter.
    4. Remove the thud of locker teleports.
    5. Fix the double locker lock bug that's existed sense his release.

    I could even go on for more things such as how trash and uncreative his ultra rare addons are and other things but that's the priorities above.

    The biggest must have is #1 and #2. Everything else would be nice but those are a must and are his biggest issues.

    I can't remember where I saw it but someone had a good idea on fixing some of the locker issues. Essentially when you play Dredge add an extra locker at every spot an Onryo TV would have spawned. This wouldn't totally fix the issue, but would help a lot and would be very easy to implement since it's already programmed in.

    The Video:

    Honestly this guy gets it. I agree with most all his changes bar a few like some addons and the locking during nightfall. He wanted more passive Nightfall recharge and less on hits, whereas I think it should be the total opposite. Instead of just flat increasing how fast you get Nightfall we should just increase how much progress you get on hits. This means you only get the Nightfall faster if you're skilled, not for free. I also don't think he baked enough Haddies Calendar into base kit. Overall though great changes, he actually buffed Dredge more than I was aiming for. With his changes Dredge would be so much stronger, healthier, and have a higher skill ceiling.

    Post edited by Blueberry on
  • Ghoulstab
    Ghoulstab Member Posts: 12

    Weirdly enough I submitted my own suggested changes thread for Dredge just a few minutes before this but it was set "under review" so I don't know if it'll even post. But this is convenient and I'll share my thoughts on how I would tackle improving Dredge as a Dredge main.

    I think the ideas presented in this video are interesting, and I particularly like the concept of Onryo's speed boost when teleporting applying to Dredge exiting lockers but I also don't see it as a necessity. I went in a different direction, and seeing as I meant for this to be its own thread it's a wall of text but here goes:

    • Make movement speed while holding a Remnant similar to powers such as Demogorgon holding Shred and Trickster holding/throwing his knives (the first proposed value) or powers like Freddy’s Dream Snares and Vecna’s spell charging (the second value): 3.68 m/s → 3.86 m/s or 4.0 m/s
      • This will make it more worthwhile to use for larger loops or long set-ups such as through multiple floors while making it slightly less punishing if the Survivor leaves the loop early but still rewarding if the Survivor chooses to leave
      • The lethality and level of commitment (Set-up time, walking around, and recharge time) of a Remnant teleport & M1 is far less than other powers with similar speeds such as Hillbilly’s Chainsaw Rev (3.68 m/s), Pyramid Head’s Torment Trail (3.68 m/s), Wesker holding Virulent Bound (3.68 m/s), Deathslinger’s Aim Down Sights (3.74 m/s), Plague’s Vile+Corrupt Purge (3.6 m/s charging, 4.4 m/s holding/vomiting), or Nemesis holding Tentacle Strike (3.8 m/s in Mutation 1+2, 4.0 m/s in Mutation 3)

    • Lower the passive “wooshing” sound’s radius, especially during Nightfall. As far as I understand (since it is not listed anywhere), the distance at which you can hear it is over 24m away (Likely 26m or 28m?), and it is directional. I would change this from 26~m → 16m.
      • It defeats the purpose of the aspect of Nightfall that makes Dredge Undetectable and not visible past 20m. I hesitate to match it to the range at which you see Dredge highlighted in white (20m), because it’s already a fair distance and at 16m it only adds just over 1 second before you can hear it while still being able to see Dredge if they are approaching before hearing the woosh.

    • When the Dredge is the Killer in a trial, add an extra locker close to each generator exactly where Sadako’s TVs or Xenomorph’s Control Stations are set to spawn. 
      • Dredge’s locker teleporting is most often used for the purpose of patrolling generators and on many maps is either in a very awkward spot or just too far away. Some maps even have complete dead zones for lockers where a generator could spawn, and others can have a gamble on whether a tile with a locker spawns where the generator is hidden, making it essentially pointless to patrol or guard the generator when you can get to the others much quicker.

    • Make the add-on Ottomarian Writing partially basekit by reducing the Gloaming’s recharge during Daytime from 12 seconds → 10 seconds while also changing Ottomarian Writing so it instead reduces it by 2 seconds instead of 4 seconds, effectively keeping the add-on the same as it currently is.

    • Make the add-on Haddie’s Calendar completely basekit and rework the add-on’s effect to something entirely new. This effectively reduces breaking out of locked lockers from 3 seconds → 2 seconds.

    • I don’t know exactly how I’d change these next add-ons, I’d hope the devs could come up with something less useless if not actually useful. But as it stands these add-ons either do virtually nothing or not enough: 

      *As a note for the first 3: It takes 300 charges to fully charge up the Nightfall Meter which equates to 20 minutes if you do literally nothing to charge it as it charges at a rate of 0.25 charges/second. So injuring Survivors, hooking Survivors, having Survivors stay injured, teleporting & hiding in lockers, and teleporting back to your Remnant are the ways to significantly gain charges. Any add-on that affects the charge rate of the Nightfall Meter that isn’t Malthinker’s Skull is never worth it and I don’t think Dredge needs to have any add-ons that affect the charge rate with the exception of the Malthinker’s Skull. It’s strong enough on its own and having any other ones is boring and lazy design potential.

    • Wooden Plank 
      • Increases the charges added to the Nightfall Meter for hooking a Survivor by 25%. This makes it go from +20 charges → +25 charges
        • This is a 0.02% increase in charges for a hook. Completely rework this.
    • Burnt Letters
      • Increases the charges added to the Nightfall Meter for injuring a Survivor by 25%. This also makes it go from +20 charges → +25 charges
        • This is also a 0.02% increase in charges but instead it’s for injuries. Completely rework this.
    • Fallen Shingle
      • Increases the charge rate of the Nightfall Meter while using Reign of Darkness (holding a Remnant) by 15% per second. 
        • I am unsure if this also affects teleporting to/hiding in lockers due to the wording choice of “using Reign of Darkness”, but the values would equate to 0.25 c/s → 0.29 c/s for just holding a Remnant and 6 c/s → 6.9 c/s if it affects teleporting/hiding as well. Completely rework this.
    • Air Freshener
      • Increases the number of Power Tokens to 4. 
        • This allows you to teleport 1 more time before you are forced to leave a locker. Almost every time 3 teleports is more than enough which makes this a rather useless add-on. It doesn’t combo with any add-ons in a significantly positive way either. I would up the amount to 5 or 6 to make it at least somewhat fun and useful in a niche way. But should the change for guaranteed lockers spawning next to gens go through, I would leave it as is or rework it completely should that be too strong.
    • Destroyed Pillow
      • Reduces the cooldown time of The Gloaming by 2.5 seconds during Nightfall. 
        • This is rather pointless because the cooldown time is normally 4 seconds during Nightfall, which is short enough to always be ready to go again when you need to use it. Making it 1.5 seconds is overkill and not practical to take advantage of. Completely rework this.
    • War Helmet
      • Increases the duration of Killer Instinct by 1.5 seconds during Nightfall.
        • This one is more of a personal beef with the add-on but an extra 1.5 seconds on something that is 3 seconds and only gives visual/audio notifications maybe every 0.5-0.75 seconds effectively adds one to three extra notifications. It also doesn’t work with the Follower’s Cowl add-on which allows you to receive Killer Instinct when teleporting back to a Remnant during Daytime. I would increase the duration by 1 second and allow it to combo with the Follower’s Cowl. Barring that, completely rework this.
    • Tilling Blade
      • Survivors suffer from Blindness, Hemorrhage, and Mangled for 80 seconds after being injured during Nightfall.
        • I don’t hate what this add-on applies but the fact that it has to happen during Nightfall is what kills it. Hemorrhage and Mangled would be perfect for Daytime where you want to delay or disincentivize healing to accrue more charges to the Nightfall Meter. Blindness however is more effective during Nightfall. Perhaps remove Blindness from this add-on and make it one of the lower rarity add-ons I suggested that need to be changed. And change the activation condition to something like a hit after teleporting to your Remnant and/or a hit shortly after exiting a locker.
    • Iridescent Wooden Plank
      • Survivors suffer from Exposed for the last 12 seconds of Nightfall.
        • Expose add-ons are already boring and unfun for Survivors, but this one is also way too niche to make use of reliably. Maybe if the Broken Doll add-on that adds 20 seconds to Nightfall effectively made this 32 seconds when used together?... I’d rather it be reworked entirely though as I can’t see a fair way to have Exposed within Dredge’s abilities and not from perks. It’s an iridescent add-on so it should feel powerful and worthwhile, but this current form is pathetic. Completely rework this.
    • Sacrificial Knife
      • Block all vault locations within 16m of the locker you emerge from for 5 seconds.
        • I love the concept of this add-on. There are three problems with it though. 
          • 1. This is completely impractical to use outside of Nightfall due to the speed at which you teleport to lockers. You are mostly going to use this during a chase, and Daytime teleport speed is almost always far too slow.
          • 2. It’s only for 5 seconds. You waste a second or two orienting yourself to continue chasing and/or swing to attack, and that’s if you time it for when they run in front of a locker and not just to block the vault locations. The orientation of the locker may also make it impossible to capitalize on the 5 seconds and make distance to attack before they can reach the vault again.
          • 3. It’s only 16m from where the locker is located. You’d think that would cover the area of most tiles, but it definitely does not. Not to mention whether you’re lucky enough that a locker spawned in the tile in the first place.
        • I would change the values from 5 seconds → 7 or 8 seconds and the distance from 16m → 20m, which I feel relatively confident would cover even the largest non-map specific tile that can spawn lockers. 
        • I do worry that this could make it oppressive though, so it would definitely need some thorough testing. But I want to keep this add-on’s effects as is, just buff the numbers.
    • You could argue the Mortar and Pestle add-on that makes it so you emerge from your Remnant facing your current direction instead of the direction you were facing when you placed it should also be reworked as it causes the player to form bad habits when using the Remnant seeing as it only works this way when using this add-on. But even though I’d never use this add-on as is, I think it’s fine as a niche quirky brown rarity add-on that some players may enjoy from time to time or entirely prefer when playing as the Dredge.
    • As for Dredge’s other add-ons, I feel they are in a good place and fulfill fun and useful gameplay moments for the Dredge player.

    This may look like a lot of changes, but it's only 3 basekit changes that are mostly number buffs for better quality of life when playing as the Dredge. Of course I also suggested changes for 50% of its add-ons, and outside of making Haddie’s Calendar and Ottomarian Writing fully or partially basekit I wouldn’t be overly upset if the others were left unchanged. But would the others be changed and depending on the strength of what some of the add-ons could turn into, I still feel it shouldn't feel dramatically different to play against the Dredge, but still make the Dredge more powerful to play as and even more importantly, consistent from map to map.

  • LeFennecFox
    LeFennecFox Member Posts: 1,284

    They should make malthinkers skull/haddies calendar basekit ATP because I don't he's a killer without using these addons

  • Caiman
    Caiman Member Posts: 2,874

    Considering their recent reworks, if BHVR buffed Dredge, it would read like this:

    • Teleportation speed increased by 5%
    • Cooldown increased by 20 seconds
    • Nightfall reveals Dredge's aura to all survivors

  • Langweilg
    Langweilg Member Posts: 1,235

    A small buff I want is that dredge being in a locker counts as searching one (to activate locker perks).

    Locked lockers should reset in nightfall.

  • Depressedlegion
    Depressedlegion Member Posts: 327

    Hoping for brighter screen while holding remnant because it's near impossible to see with it on console.

  • Caiman
    Caiman Member Posts: 2,874

    Yeah, it's horrible, feels like I'm debuffing myself just to use my power.

  • ReverseVelocity
    ReverseVelocity Member Posts: 4,520

    A fun fact I just learned: Engravings Billy is actually faster than Dredge's TP in Daytime. You don't even need to be in Overdrive, AND you get much freer movement.

    PLEASE make his Daytime TP faster at the very least, it's borderline unbearable without Boat Key. I'd say you could increase it even further than Boat Key does at the moment and it wouldn't be OP.

  • ReverseVelocity
    ReverseVelocity Member Posts: 4,520

    WE'RE COOKING

    W BHVR

  • Ghoulstab
    Ghoulstab Member Posts: 12
    edited August 2

    Honestly a lot of what was suggested here, even the values, are incredibly close to what has been posted in here.

    I'm hyped!