Weave without franklins
I've seen ppl complaining about this combo but... how would one really use weave WITHOUT comboing it with something that makes survivors drop their items? Generally ppl don't just drop and pick up dropped items unless the original owner died.
It just feels like unlike other combos where both perks have some use individually (Enduring/spirit Fury for example), Weave would basically require survivor cooperation to work without it being comboed.
Comments
-
Let's say survivors had a perk where the only way to counter it was for the killer to go to the basement for a minute and just wait around and until they did that their aura was permanently revealed. Let's say this perk somehow took up four slots as well, would that be okay balance wise?
3 -
I feel like just changing it to give aura reading for 60 sec then item disappears would be fine.
5 -
That would be a terribly underwealming survivor perk if it took a basement camping Bubba to function, lol
Edit... reread your comment and saw my misunderstanding. My point being, the perk by itself is almost entirely useless since it requires survivors to willingly ditch their items. Is there any scenario where weave by itself would be functional? Not even GOOD, just... work.
1 -
Just so I understand, you're saying weave should show auras and delete an item. What would realistically trigger the perk?
2 -
Okay and? If something weak when combined with another thing is broken then it does not matter if that one thing is weak if when combined with another perk it's broken. Going back to my example it does not matter that the hypothetical perk I gave does nothing unless you use it for all four perk slots, the effect is still incredibly strong.
3 -
The entire point of this thread was Weave by itself. I'm not trying to argue the strength of a combo. If I say it's super duper amazing broken if combined with stuff and agree with you... can we then get to the topic? The trigger for this perk basically requires survivor cooperation or for me to tunnel someone so their item ends up on the ground. Can you reasonably think of a scenario where this perk functions by itself?
0 -
It’s one of those perks that needs another perk to truly synergize and get true value , but with both together personally I think it’s too much. The fact that it gives permanent aura reading as long as you’re within range and also works on slugged survivors is too much imo. I think it should be changed to not work on slugged survivors and either 1. Decrease the aura range or 2. Increase aura range but only work as long as the item has charges in it. Once charges are gone, aura reading stops.
People love to say “just take the item to a corner of the map easily countered” but that’s not easy. That requires you to spend time going back to find the item (assuming you don’t go down in chase) which reveals you to the killer, pick it up, (which then makes you oblivious) and run it to a corner or the map. Then when you put it down in the corner you’re revealing your location again. So now you gotta hope you get away from the item before the killer gets to you. Thats a lot of time spent off gens and trying to avoid the killer finding you again, with no terror radius to warn you. Also this needs survivor cooperation which is non-existent in solo Q. The only way to “counter” it is to activate its power by going near and picking up the dropped item, which puts you on the killers radar.
10 -
I can fully get down with adding limitations to the combo... but it would be nice to allow the perk itself to function. With your idea of no charges=weave doesn't work, you got rid of the only time survivors would actually ditch an item... when it's used up and gets replaced. What changes can be made to make Weave function by itself?
0 -
Weave would basically require survivor cooperation
Can't lie, Weave is wonderful for revealing the Urban-Evasioning wall-hugging gen-avoiders. Not gonna say Weave did this in a match I just got out of, but hey, I hope more killers run this perk. I really do.
Aside from the occasional survivor who "oh, silly me" drops an item in the middle of the shack, nah, probably not gonna get much value out of Weave without Franklin's. This combo has yet to bother me. It's something new and different to play around as survivor, which is a nice change. But I don't play to win, so my opinion probably doesn't hold much value to other players.
1 -
literal dead perk. worse then PTB. the best case you'll see is them reverting buff to 8 meters where nobody uses it.
0 -
Okay fine, it functions by itself by hard countering chest builds and draumaturgy.
0 -
Doesn't Weave make them drop their item too? Without Franklin's or addons to drop items, that would give a blip of information. It would also cause exhaustion. I agree that it needs another perk/addon to combo with it well, but it can still be useful alone.
4 -
I have over 4500 hours in DBD and having an extreme hard time finding items that has been dropped by my teammates.
A lot of maps have multi level structures or floors, tall grass or a lot of rooms. That's a very, very large area that you have to search blindly in SoloQ.
Therefore, my suggestion would be that after about 60 seconds of dropping the item, it will be highlighted via an aura for everyone who comes into the area of weave.
7 -
No, weave doesn't force a survivor to drop the item. It shows aura reading if a survivor is near a dropped item, and causes oblivious if a survivor picks up a dropped item.
0 -
Weave makes you drop the item upon completion. BHVR even buffed it in the latest patch by making medkits without add ons get fully consumed upon a single heal (previously there would be a couple charges left on it after a full heal). They said it was a bug, though it'd been like that for over a year now, and it's coincidental they fix it at the same time as we get Weave. But anyway
7 -
weave does force the survivor to drop the item when it hits 0 charges for the first time.
3 -
JJust Rechecked the perk... I dunno how I missed that. Kinda completely changes the thread.
0 -
its mostly the usual "Buff us, Nerf them" discussion after each new perk. I dont think any survivors like any of the 2 perks on its own. - and mixing them … oh noes!
Meanwhile survivors mix Windows, Lithe/Sprint Burst, DH - All perks i think no killer likes, - but thats ok, because thats the side that have 4 times the players, so they are loud and get their will.1 -
Taking up multiple perk slots and 'having the perks be nearly useless individually' has no bearing on whether or not a combo is 'broken'.
Or are you trying to say that somehow BU+FtP or BP+FB were unjustly nerfed because those also took up two perk slots and the perks did nearly nothing on their own?
It's interesting in this case, since an obvious fix to this would be to make chests worthwhile... but that isn't being mentioned either.
5 -
Just To be clear, at no point did I say any of that. You're arguing with a strawman in your head right now. I'm completely OK with OP stuff to be tuned down. They did plenty to make various slowdowns have anti-synergy for this exact reason. Blocked gens can't be kicked, nor do they regress. Regressing gens ALSO can't be kicked.
I would like to be in the position where individual perks don't HAVE to be used in combos to get value. That shouldn't be a crazy stance to take worthy of immediately getting antagonized over.
2 -
Therefore, my suggestion would be that after about 60 seconds of dropping the item, it will be highlighted via an aura for everyone who comes into the area of weave.
Personally, I like this suggestion. After a bit of time, if you're within the aura-showing radius it highlights the item just like Plunderer's does.
2 -
I'm not antagonizing, I'm pointing out that there are certainly times where having a perk combo can or will cause unintended exponential power spikes that need to kept in mind.
You're specifically arguing that the perk is useless without the combo perk. That's exactly where for the people is and was before BU got changed to endurance.
When I even offer that maybe buffing chests would fix part of your concern I get literally attacked out the gate. That seems pretty obvious that you don't want to fix the problem, you want the combo and only that.
4 -
You immediately started comparing random other combos. I'm not trying to go on a rant about combos. KILL ALL THE COMBOS!!! Set it so certain perks are straight up unplayable together... I don't care. My thread is talking about Weave when not comboed...hense the title. Unlike other perks that can be comboed but still work by themselves, weave really doesnt.
How would one go about buffing chests? Also, considering the perk basically announces itself once an item is depleted, why do you think anyone would purposefully strew items around the map after getting new ones from chests?
1 -
That requires you to spend time going back to find the item
You know, it's possible to just check it in first second of the game? You are already in corner of the map at that point.
I don't do it against every killer of course, but always against Vecna, Doctor, Hag, Wraith, Twins, Legion, Pinhead.
Is there any other killer where this combo would be popular?
0 -
I mean if you want to kill the Franklin's combo, just make it so Weave Attunement only works for depleted items or items with no charges (flashbangs, etc). This is the trigger for Weave Attunement anyway.
You'd probably need a buff to Weave Attunement though, so to give a full list of changes:
- The auras of dropped depleted survivor items or temporary items are revealed to you, as well as any survivors within 12m. This effect lingers for 3s after leaving the range or picking up the item.
- Causes survivors carrying an empty or temporary item to suffer the Oblivious status effect.
Note: Killer items like VHS tapes and turrets are "special items" thus are not affected.
This makes Weave Attunement an anti gen-rush perk. It doesn't really stop medkits or flashlights, but it does mess with toolboxes. Dumping your toolbox into a gen immediately will drop the toolbox and will reveal your location at that gen to the killer, and in order to remove it you have to pick it back up and suffer permanent Oblivious.
You then have to move somewhere to drop the toolbox in a safe place, basically undoing the time you saved genrushing.
This also has limited synergy with Franklin's but has to be earned, and Franklin's meanwhile works as a back up to people 99ing their items.
Could also see synergies with maybe even Overwhelming Presense as a counter flashlight build.
0 -
Wouldn't mind something like this to break the combo. Was thinking the drop trigger COULD be whenever you finish using an item rather than when you run out of charges. You kinda hit the nail on the head with flashlights...they typically last all game or most of it.
1 -
Well, since buffing chests is the only constructive idea to 'fix' weaving without completely reworking it, I'm not sure. Removing green maps and broken keys from the loot pool is a good start, no one would ever pick those up (in their current state).
You could make one add-on spawn at random on the chest item, tho that could potentially be an issue unless we limit, say, iri add-ons to not spawn at all, and maybe limit the add-ons to the tier of the item or lower as well. Currently there's no reason to even touch chests, but giving a decent item would mean survivors have the option to A) do an actual secondary objective, and B) would have to drop their current item to swap out.
I'm curious what your thoughts are to improve weaving, since you haven't offered any suggestions of your own yet either.
As I mentioned initially, just because perks aren't necessarily good on their own, doesn't mean that combos aren't too good to consider as well. I'm sorry if my relevant examples offended you, but those perks are also actually useless without the supporting combo as well.
Nowhere did I say kill all perk combos, but just because some things take two or even more perk slots isn't a reason to consider them 'good' or 'balanced'. Lethal pursuer, for example, combos with nearly every aura perk, and I wouldn't say those combos are broken, and those perks are also individually good on their own. So it's possible to pull that off, even with aura reading.
0 -
I think a wider irritation with Franklins is that an item can be depleted and gone when for a lot of people (especially during events) it feels very bad.
Personally, I think if Franklins stays as it is it is fine but make the effect for that one game only (so items can stay with survivors when they die/escape IF it was depleted or taken off my franklins).That would then not have any bearing on killer or survivor during the match and can feel less bad for survivors at the end.
in regards to WA, I think people need to get used to it - I see it like pinheads box, a secondary (important) objective. Sadly, as Pinhead has shown after several years, soloQ can end up getting utterly decimated with such side objectives as you can’t mitigate for how others will play easily.0 -
The biggest question in this szenario is:
How have you received your red icon?
0 -
Items are really cheap in the blood web, its hardly any big loss. - Killers loose their chosen addons (killers version of items) after each game.
2 -
Might just be a psychological thing or perception but yeah that’s a fair point 🍰
0 -
You saw it too huh?
0 -
The combo isn’t that good, survivors just hate Franklins. Pick your item back up and hide it. Not that hard.
1 -
Ahh yes, because the killer gains map wide aura vision and the only counter is to go into the basement. After all Weave Attunement doesn't have any restrictions and is permanently active. You definitely cannot pick up the item again and the range isn't restricted either. This is truly one of the comparisons of all time.
1 -
Hax, lol
0 -
Survivors crying about Weave Attunement, Franklins is so sad. Its a good combo that is easily played around yet they are gonna cry until it is nerfed. They'll nerf it then Killer mains will go back to 4 slow down perks then they'll cry about that.
0 -
Yeah it goes give map wide aura vision on some maps like hawkins or rpd. And even on more open maps the counter for survivors is to go and find an item and then waste time taking it to a dead zone all while your aura is revealed or you are oblivious.
0 -
Just drop your item in a corner and move on. I don't understand why even the hardcore grizzled survivors mains wouldn't take that over 4 gen slowdown. Whatever, this community will always complain.
0 -
Franklin's and Weave attunement are made for each other. They are the perfect pair and i don't think they need to change.
People are forgetting that Weave attunement already received a nerf since now medkits don't deplete completly when doing a self heal.
0 -
24 metres = map wide? You'll have a hard time proving that. Even if the item is located perfectly, it's not the entire map. Even 2 items cannot achieve that. On The Game, you might get something close to map wide with all 4 items located perfectly (and that's a map problem, not a problem with Weave Attunement) but how hard is it to just pick up an item and leave it in a corner of the map? You do that once and counter 2 of the killer's perks. That's half their build!
If a minor inconvenience is too much to counter half the killer's build, then I don't even know what to tell you. Because then every single killer perk would be overpowered. They are all at least inconvenient to counter.
0 -
That's not a fair comparison as there's a range limit to weave. But hey, still better than the killer running 4 slowdowns!
0 -
I hate the combo. I don’t hardly use items. I don’t care if a killer has franklins. Weave is just busted when in combination with Franklin’s
0 -
I use this perk with Begrimed Chains on Bubba. Sooo good.
1 -
You can’t really. It’s only good with Franklins or with addons that make survivors drop items. It’s not a good perk on its own.
0 -
Well first of all.
No, but you also need to account for the fact that survivors have 16 perks to work with while the killer only has 4. So something taking 2 perk slots on a killer is half their build, but taking 2 perk slots for a survivor is only 1/8th the team's build.
Secondly, you are massively exaggerating how long it takes to counter this combo. You literally, walk to a corner of the map, and press r. Half the killer's perks are now mostly useless.
0 -
I agree with this - Other day I spent about 15 or so seconds just looking for a broken key (At least I think that's what triggered weave) only for Lich to come back and smack it out of my hands again because I was oblivious for a few seconds.
Truthfully I feel like I shouldn't be further punished for trying to counter an already decent perk but that's just me. Although I do agree with the others that say Franklin's is what enables this perk. Although Franklin's on its own is already pretty good if the entire team is relying on items. Both together feel too convenient / strong but individually each perk is kind of mediocre.
3
