So this isn't reportable?
Comments
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Whataboutism like this always annoys me because… yes. That's also stupid. That also shouldn't be a thing. Killers should be able to force end or at least leave the match once gates are open and BHVR's weird insistence that it's not hostage-holding so long as it eventually ends serves no purpose but to enable BM.
So with that out of the way, what's your actual stance on whether or not BM is bad? Because IMO, 'you can do it to me too' is a terrible reason to not do anything about players griefing each other.
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My point with that comment is that it's a lose lose. If you run the hard meta, people complain you're running hard meta, and if you don't run hard meta, you're swiftly reminded why those perks are hard meta.
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Yes that’s true. You have to pick the lesser of the two evils. One thing I have learned is that you can’t please the whole player base so imo the lesser evil is to just play how you like.
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I find it interesting how much blaming is done for toxic BM behavior.
Some people are just scummy. A LOT of people are just scummy. Because anonymity. Because Internet. Because "U MAD BRO" culture. We all make our own choices in how to act. Toxicity is just immaturity rearing it's rampant, ugly baby head in an age of no consequences. Not just in DBD, but everywhere. I hope people in general get better.
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People act disingenuous and pretend to not see anything wrong here and yet also wonder why this community's attitude is in such poor state.
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Oh wait, this is exactly the time we should ask for finisher mori, without of course that dumb stupidest decision that is basekit unbreakable
It's not like survivors love to yell for how "unfair" to finish a game in with already losing games, right
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The problem wasn't the Unbreakable; despite Survivors having this base kit, it was still a net buff to slugging by"blessing" it with an instant win condition.
The finisher mori should not work with more than 1 survivor alive
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I mostly didn't like the finisher mori system because it killed slug races, mori photobombs, and gifting hatch. Also sometimes I get in a fight with the last survivor in a friendly match, because they want to sacrifice themselves for me and I want them to escape, and it'd remove my ability to yeet a survivor out the gates.
If the mori was optional, it'd be okay... but then that undoes the point of ending the match. The unlimited Unbreakable was a hard no, though. Horrible idea. There are far simpler and less disruptive ways to deal with endgame BMing.
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You ultimately have to choose one, though
If I had to choose between slightly less "fun" and complete removal of pure waste of time, I'd choose latter with no question
That's blatant lie, though
There is no objective difference between all slug today and all slug with finisher mori, it's just that you had to wait for 4 minutes or not, and which is same for survivors
Stop calling it like a "buff" when literally nothing is changed there, slugging everyone is, in fact, ALREADY AN INSTANT WIN CONDITION, that is EXACTLY the reason why survivor has to stay on the ground for four minutes, because there is no way to get back
Peoples are really mixing their own feeling and actual gameplay difference, yeah yeah it FEELS much stronger, but there is no objective difference with or without instant mori
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First of all, this is whataboutism.
Second, those are not really compareable. The EGC timer is only half as long as the Bleedout timer. Furthermore, at this point, the Killer also had a full game to play. Slugging 4 people at 5 Gens is not "playing the game" for Survivors.And the Killer also can decide at any point to force the Survivors out. They dont have to wait the 2 minutes. There is no way for Survivors to speed up the Bleedout.
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Hm. I know where you're coming from, and I agree with that, but I don't agree that you do have to choose. Again, letting players leave the match without penalty once certain criteria that a match is lost have been satisfied would prevent BMers from being able to hold players hostage without scuppering the scraps of positive player culture DBD has. The finisher mori established such criteria, but didn't ask whether anyone agreed the match was over, and inadvertently buffed the hell out of slugging as a result.
Like… let the killer leave when exit gates are open, let survivors replace themselves with a bot if they're downed in a 1v2 or everyone else is incapacitated (downed, hooked, dead), and let players with afk crows lose collision. There. Finisher mori's no longer required.
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It's exactly same because both is just wasting times, Hell, killer slug is more justifiable because sometime hooking can net in losing, it has strategical value
Staying on gate doesn't
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Staying at gate has strategic value too. As a survivor, I won't leave until I know that all survivors are accounted for, or that my leaving would enable the last player to find hatch (and that I couldn't help them otherwise - ex, I'm injured, they're being chased across the map.) If I leave, I can't unhook my teammates or take a hit. Even if I make the killer come hit me out, that can potentially buy time for another survivor to heal or reach the other gate.
But that's generally not what people are talking about when they complain about survivors waiting at the gate. Same as survivor bleedout. In cases where the killer can't hook someone, survivors can crawl towards a hook - I've found most killers in that situation will oblige you, because they don't want to be stuck watching the timer any more than you do. The ones who leave you on the ground anyway are just doing it to be jackasses.
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Nonsense. Letting people bleed out for 4 minutes (which is the point of OP) has no strategical value whatsoever.
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It has strategical value when there is not all of them, it isn't when there is four of them, surely
I suppose this is about literally guaranteed situation though, which is four bleedout for killer and four in gate for survivor, in this comparison killer will lose their "guarantee" with hooking
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Yeah, that's pretty much it. There's no value in four survivors together at a gate and there's no value in slugging four survivors unto bleedout (with one exception of 'boon unbreakable is nearby and you have to keep slapping everyone down', but in that case survs are going to start crawling apart and timing their popups so you should hook some anyway. Or kill the boon.)
When people say that slugging has strategic value, they're talking about different scenarios with different intents, which is why I brought up the example I did.
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Considering the new hook respawn mechanic, 4-man bleed-outs should be reportable, imo.
There's no legitimate reason at all.
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The insta win is technically just a formality, but the reason 4x bleedout isn't the norm is because it's boring. Survivors hide in corners to spite you for making them stare at the floor.
We don't need the game encouraging more floor staring. If you want to slug 4 people consistently, you should have to put up with the boring end result.
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Wraith actually
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No gens done?
Did you go all in as a bully team?
At least 1-2 gens should be done when the killer get the first down, if you play normally, -especially on Midwitch.
I would love to see a full screenshot with your perks and items, that you left out of this one.
Also its only 4 minutes, killers endure time dragging in 80% of the games they loose.
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you do realize that killers can go in and hit teabagging survivors to force them out?
the OP is just asking for a mechanic that allows survivor players to cause the 4-player-slug-out games to come to an end instantly, instead of being forced to wait the 4 minutes - similar to how killer players can hit survivor players to force them to exit the game and thus bring the game to an end
don't get me wrong, I despise when my survivor teammates teabag (admittedly I rarely if ever get teabaggers as killer but when I do i find it more corny than anything, but that's beside the point) and I think it's toxic behavior, but the OP is clearly complaining about being forced to wait several minutes without recourse and is asking for a feature that allows them to skip that waiting game while still granting the win to the killer, just like how hitting teabagging survivors out of the gate forces them to leave while also conceding the game to them.
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Here we go again… i think this is the weekly topic by now.
Bleeding out a survivor is no worse than survivors dragging time for the killer when they have won the game, but camp the exit gate. This happens in about 80% of the games. They are forcing killers to go and push them out, they even split in 3 some times, so that the killer have to go to both exit gates and the hatch.
But as soon as the killer slugs them for 4 minutes, all hell breaks loose and they go to the forum and complain about it...
If this is such a big problem, then there is perks to counter it, and if you dont want to "waste" a perk slot for that, then the problem isnt really that big that you make it sound.
Its rare that i get bled out.Its not someone else's responsibility to fix what you do, nor can they be held responsible for your actions ect. - suggesting that is just toxic. - so please stop pushing that on to the killer, this is purely on the survivors.
Bleed outs take longer, yea sure. But they are really rare, and if the survivors stand at the exit gate to tbag anyway for 80% of the games, who cares?
Team A drags time from Team B (and have been doing that for a really long time). Now Team B is dragging time from team A as a consequence of that. And now Team A dont think its fun anymore? - im not sure if i should laugh or cry.
Also i have had killer games where my only option was to bleed survivors, because they abused game mechanics to make them unhook-able.
Its kind of tireing that a lot of survivor mains think its ok, and even trying to downplay or even push the responsibility (as you do now) for the exit gate camping to the killer, and over-dramatizatize the bleedouts.
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I hope you realize that blaming the survivors for the killer BMing them is as stupid as blaming a killer because they must have done something wrong when they get tbagged at the gate. Accusing them of being in a SWF and bullying the killer is some next level nonsense.
People in this game are #########. It's really not rare to encounter it.
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Try reading below my 2 first lines of text.
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I did. You accused the OP of being in a bully squad and/or being bad, then said 'but it doesn't matter because killers also face BM.' You also invoked 'but sometimes you have to bleed out survivors', which has been discussed to death on this thread already as obviously not what the OP or anyone here is talking about. Killers who go into the game wanting to bleed out survivors have nothing to do with killers who are forced to bleed out due to survivors running anti-hook builds or hook deadzones. You also somehow managed to blame this on survivors, and suggested that perk loadouts should be dedicated to anti-slug builds as if a.) perks should be required to protect against BM and not, you know, playing the game, and b.) as if one pop of Unbreakable will actually save you from a killer who's determined to bleed out the entire team, because it absolutely will not. Unless you're suggesting we should all run No Mither?
So. No. I'm not exactly convinced.
Once more, I raise 'people wasting each other's time to BM shouldn't be a thing in this game for either side' and ask you to either admit BM is bad and neither side should be able to waste each other's time like this, or admit you want to keep it around for whatever asinine reason.
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you know you an your team mess up hard when you can't even do 1 gen.
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ignoring how obviously wrong you are in your analysis on basically everything I said (I get the feeling this is a generic essay you've been stewing on for a while and you decided to direct at the first person you could reasonably convince yourself was an Evil Toxic Survivor Main despite the fact it doesn't really address what I said)
…i'm tempted to copy-paste the lyrics of the hit Taylor Swift song "look what you made me do" to highlight the absolute childishness of the argument "teabagging survivors made me do it," but I worry that doing that without any explanation as to why I did that nobody would understand the point being made. Just imagine I copy-pasted those lyrics and you immediately understood that your argument was childish
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I did not accuse anyone, i asked and i asked for a full screenshot instead of a snipped part.
I also did not say that anyone is bad.. you keep putting words in my mouth, please refrain from that, its toxic.
I did question why no gens were done at all. → i even explained why (but you choose to ignore that part completely, even when i told you to read it again)
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"I didn't accuse them of being a bully squad, I just asked if they were and said that it made the most sense given the context and heavily insinuated that they were bullying by implying they were intentionally hiding something that would be evidence of bullying. but i didn't outright accuse them, teehee"
lying is a sin and honesty by technicality is a form of lying. quit lying, and quit lying to yourself that that's not what you're doing
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If you can't understand the subtext involved in asking for proof that getting bled out wasn't the OP's fault, and then laying out a whole disjoint list of why slugging is actually justified and killers get BMed too and that survivors surely would have completed gens by then if they hadn't been trolling the killer (my apologies, you weren't accusing them of being bad, you were insinuating they were a bully squad again), I don't know what to say to you.
But I strongly suspect you do understand the subtext and you're just trying to wiggle out of it so that you can make me into the bad guy here, and not, y'know, you for walking in on someone who got bullied and asking loads of leading questions that imply it must have been their fault.
Because in case it's not abundantly clear, even asking that was a bad look and willfully blind to the fact that so many players in this game are ######### to each other just because they can be. Which you seem to be quite willing to acknowledge on the survivor side, but when it's killers suddenly you're calling for proof.
And because you wanted me to read and address every part of your post so badly - your Team A Team B thing is the worst part of your argument entirely. Because you're assuming that the same people who troll others are now getting trolled by their victims. That is demonstrably and obviously untrue. There is no gestalt 'survivors' and 'killers', there's just a million different individual players. When killers troll survivors because they got trolled by another group of survivors, the new group of survivors they're targeting is innocent and has likely never done anything to deserve their treatment, nor condoned it. So they have every right to complain about their treatment - it's not karmic. Same goes for the killers who get BMed or bullied by survivors who are angry at all killers after some bad matches. This is why hating the other side and justifying BMing them is bad.
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Im not responsible for what you think i mean, thats on you NOT me. You read something else than what i wrote, and even a negative… that says a lot about you.
Im not responsible for your thoughts or feelings, and i did not express what you think i did. I already told you once, this is the second time now… I meant EXACTLY what i wrote, it was not some secret code.
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I want you to think about this. While one person is waiting to bleed to death, the three people left because it takes 4 minutes to do so can FINISH 3 gens, and when the second person is waiting to bleed to death, they will be able to FINISH 2 gens, and open the gate.
It would be a complete lack of skill to have 5 gen left there, even if the speed of going down is fast, without hooking it would take 4 minutes, and with unbreakable etc. it would buy more time.
Do you really think bleeding is strong?1 -
Wish I could upvote this more than once
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Then what should we do about AFC and 3GENS, they are basekit that can't even be addressed.
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Nah I agree, you're clearly trying to accuse them of SWF bullying & now trying to backpedal once it's clear people by and large don't agree with you
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Okay looks like you dont understand the difference between slugging (strategy) and bleeding (toxic behaviour). Bye.
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Do you think the killer just stops existing when they down someone
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But both can be prevented with no mither or boon, and to say that the countermeasure is wrong with perks is to deny the very basis of this game, and to say that it is always possible for two or more people to escape if they bring their own, but you didn't read it, did you?
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Killers have a choice to spend 10sec to gate and push them out, end the match. Its the ego part that prevent killers to make that choice, not the game.
Survivors dont have a choice to instantly end the match and move on. Which alot of survivors want an option to quick bleeding or instantly kill themselves and leave the game.
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Do you understand the concept of statistics?
They are accurate, they represent an average of all players.
You, your friends, even everybody on this forum, aren't representative of the whole community.
As far as I'm concerned, I'll slug and bleed out, sometimes even the whole team, if it's necessary.
I don't feel the need to justify what I do though. Survivors have lots of ways to prevent hooking and often try to hide. (I often slug to go after whoever else is present.)
It doesn't happen too often though.
Sometimes I even immortalize the moment with a screenshot for Steam with a comment like "That survivor made sure she couldn't be hooked : she won.", with her limp body at my feet. 😅
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That indeed looks like one of my typical (Nurse) plays on Midwich. Sometimes survivors are together and linger around while I'm downing them one by one.
Obviously, the correct play for them would be to run as far away as possible instead of waiting for their turn.
I blame the matchmaking, really.
While I'm slugging, some are moving away and by the time I've finished, I only know where the last slug is.
At that point I'd hook the one though.
There is no reason not to.
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Can't be addressed?
I'm sorry, is standing 12m from the hook suddenly too difficult? It's pretty common as well as easy for most killers to completely ignore the AFC mechanic because of this. It also fills so slowly you can basically time it and still face camp to second stage if you want to, that's how weak this mechanic is in practice.
And 3 genning is still of strategic advantage to the killer because it forces survivors into a small patrol area. I'm (not) sorry that it isn't an auto-win condition like it used to be, but... and I can never stress this enough:
Gens are not the killer's objective, survivors are.
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Do you understand what im saying? i said it 2 times already.
Im asking for some context, that is not the same as accusing anyone, but the chopped screenshot is removing some context.
Im saying that it MIGHT be possible that they were a bully squard (because of the missing context), that is not the same as saying THEY WERE.
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It is already bad enough that you assume that the Survivors are a Bully Squad instead of just assuming that the Killer might just be like that.
And it is sadly a recurring theme in this forum that Killers have to be cute little angels who only act like this if those evil pesky survivors did something to them.
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Try reading what you quoted already
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does it really matter if the one specific case where Op took the screenshot was maybe provoked by the survivors though?
In the end, bleeding out the whole team does happen without it being provoked by the survivor team and can and does get used just for toxicity and not only as a response.
No one said that survivors can’t be toxic or use toxic mechanics, and those should get addressed as well, but they are not the topic here.
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As a former killer main, i think the context is indeed important.
*********** im not saying it WAS provoked by survivors (i know that is not what you are saying, but others might) ***********
But *** IF *** it was, then i think its ok, - i have had several games when i was killer main, where some SWFs did not work on gens at all, they spend all the time to annoy me as killer. And the only way for a killer to end those games is bleeding survivors.
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you can still hook them. Especially when all four are down.
There is very little scenarios where 4 man bleedouts are okay just like that, maybe with a complete boil-over, flipflop squad with map offering that are allein that sweet spot.
but that’s not a good enough justification to have a mechanic that is very much being used for unprovoked toxicity and maybe these specific situations should be addressed differently (eg hooks respawning though it doesn’t really get rid of my described scenario)
I am playing both sides, you don’t have to use the ‚I am/was x main‘ - that doesn’t matter as well.the context is not important if there is plenty of different contexts for this scenario and we KNOW there is contexts where it’s just the killer being toxic - there is already players in this very thread that confirmed they did it just because some other survivors in a completely independent match didn’t let them win.
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You are right, - You can.
But *** IF *** survivors did bully me for 10-15 minutes, and ignoring the game objective, then i would not be nice to them too and just let them get off by hooking them, then i would indeed let them bleed.
*********** im not saying it WAS provoked by survivors (i know that is not what you are saying, but others might) ***********
And i think this is exactly why the context is important, because if we had the full context, then there would be no doubts. or it would be less at least.
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yeah, I get that, I can be spiteful too in this games trust me. That’s not important for this topic however and doesn’t help to steer the game into a healthy direction. We should have mechanics -on either side- that are so frustrating and/or time-wasting.
edit: okay, to be fair, op is kinda asking for this to be reportable so it is kinda the topic but i guess it’s kinda common sense that it won’t be changed to be reportable while just staying the very same0
