How will you handle the false cheater accusations? @BHVR
Its being reported on twitter and videos on youtube are made, from various big names right now. On the topic where cheaters now will litteraly impersonate not even big streamers but small ones too, they act as if they were streaming as a certain streamer and use cheats while they are doing it. And then ofc the wrong people get banned. Not for a period, permanently! These cheaters also dont only go against streamers, basicly anyone can be victim if we are just unlucky enough.
Developers, you gotta realise this is a severe security issiue for the accounts of your customers, i have spent alot of money over the coarse of 3 years in this game, i want to know if i will be able to defend myself if i were to get accused falesly on cheating, because so far the people that got their accounts back were big streamers and smaller ones that had help getting attention for the unrightful loss of their accounts.
Also banning me on the forum here for opening this discussion will not make the issiue go away. (like it has been done to other people that tried bringing the issiue forward, appearantly. I dont say it has happened, im just saying what people are talking about so im prepared, all fine if this is not the truth.)
Because look, at the end this is about the money ive put into the game. And while sure i dont believe the servers will be up for 60+ years because every game retires some day, its a completely diffrent thing when we just get ripped off of our accounts who have a ton load of money put into them, because of a false bann.
And since i know how it goes around here:
I HAVE NOT BEEN BANNED, THIS IS NOT DISCUSSING BANNS PUBLICLY, THIS IS DISCUSSING AN ISSIUE WHERE PEOPLE GET WRONGFULLY BANNED RIGHT NOW.
its not about making trouble, i want to simply secure myself knowing if this problem will be attended to. And if there is a way to appeal the bann should it hit me aswell. As i said, it can happen to anyone right now. And i sure dont want my money to be wasted.
Comments
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Well said. We really should get an official statement on this issue, this is a major breach of security.
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I hadn't heard of this. Are they somehow managing to obtain the streamers game IDs so cheating reports are automatically against the streamer?
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it's not only streamers. some are just persons that play a lot, mostly killer mains.
from my own experience I can say anonymous mode will not protect against cheaters reading your name and steam id somehow.
due to the rules of this forum and the dbd subreddit you won't read much about this topic.
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Oh wow that's concerning. I'd been planning to take a nice break after the event, might have to start it a bit earlier until this is all sorted
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how are they getting banned?
Cheat reports need in-game reports, additional plsyer support tickets and video proof where BHVRs support need to manually check if cheating actually happen and then ban the account that’s actually been used in the reported match? Just having the steam id/name of another person shouldn’t be enough if the account itself didn’t get hacked (which is then more a Steam issue and not DbD issue, no?)
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It would be nice, but BHVR won't say anything because it means they know there is a problem with the scarecrow they out out to keep the hackers at bay and that would make shareholders nervous
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Nope. One of the main cheaters (I'm sure you've seen them around) realized a developer was in his chat following his games and looking at his ID to make sure he could ban him before having to wait for anti-cheat or reports to do it. So he faked the dev out apparently by putting someone else's gameplay on his own stream. Then that completly innocent person got banned instead.
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If there really is an official BHVR statement, could it be that server-side validation and useful cheat protection will finally be introduced?
I know the topic is avoided and suppressed as much as possible. But perhaps now there is more pressure for something to be done.A Dead by Daylight with useful cheat protection. What a wet dream that might come true.
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the dev has banned someone because of the id they saw on stream and without any player report???
And the cheater realized there was a dev that had the rights to do this? (Pretty sure known devs such as Peanits, Mandy and others can’t just ban like that and would go with someone from the actual team managing this?!)
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We do have server-side validation and cheat protection though? We have had it for a long time.
A lot of cheats that worked in the past are no longer a thing, but those protections may eventually get bypassed. That's just how anticheats work, it's an arms race. Someone makes a cheat, you introduce a fix, they either bypass the fix or make a new cheat, repeat for all eternity (or as long as the game is actively developed for, at least).
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With server validation, cheats like speedhacks and other ones that mess with the physical world of the game would be impossible. But they still work in DbD, so no server validation for player speed and other important variables. And it's not an "arms race" in this case, with server validation of player speed speedhacks become impossible forever, unless the cheater hacks directly into the server. Not "harder to implement", but completely theoretically impossible. You will never meet a speedhacker in, say, TF2 (game abandoned for many years and heavily ridden with cheaters, usually sniper bots), because the server validation makes it completely impossible for such cheats to work. The sniper bots there will head shot you in one frame, but they still well walk with normal speed. The only things that theoretically can't be server validated are player inputs (aimbot) and client optimization abuses (wallhack), this is why these kinds of cheats are always possible and therefore can be called an "arms race" against the anticheat. But speedhacking, flying, match flow manipulations, game crashes and other trash that can be done by cheaters in DbD is pretty much unheard of in games with actual server validation. Please, read what server validation actually is, there is next to none in DbD.
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Flying was patched for a LONG time, so was instantly popping gens, etc.
You have to remember that this is a game where movement speeds often change drastically. There are times where a Survivor will be running at 150% of their normal speed pretty often throughout a game. You can't prevent every instance of a Survivor going fast, because Survivors are sometimes supposed go fast.
This is compared to TF2, where movement speeds rarely change, and the hard cap for movement speed is not that far from a Merc's general walking speed. The absolute fastest a Merc can move is 520 hammer units per second, and only Scout can achieve that movement speed physically. Most TF2 Cheaters use Sniper, for obvious reasons.
There are legitimate reasons where a Survivor will move at over 200% of their movement speed, such as getting hit when activating an exhaustion perk. A blanket speed cap wouldn't necessarily be appropriate, and any movement speed cap won't really do anything practically as a Survivor moving at 150% speed is practically uncatchable by normal means anyway.
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You mentioned players Steam IDs and Anonymous Mode. Does that mean consolers are less vulnerable to this? I don't have a Steam ID because I'm on Xbox, but I also cannot use their Anonymous Mode either because I'm on Xbox.
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You can't prevent every instance of a Survivor going fast, because Survivors are sometimes supposed go fast.
But you can check the source of the speed boost, like whether the player or his teammates have activated a perk that would grant it. If the source of the speed boost contradicts the server state, that is the server's version of what should be happening, then the speed boost must be denied. If a player tries to activate a perk they don't have or that should not be possible to activate under the circumstances - the perk activation must be denied.
The absolute fastest a Merc can move is 520 hammer units per second, and only Scout can achieve that movement speed physically.
TF2 also has a lot of legitimate speed boosts, such as boost from Demoknight's weapons, from a friendly Disciplinary Action, Banner buff, or being pushed by an enemy blast or shot. All of these events would accelerate a player, and yet cheats absolutely cannot simulate any of that.
A blanket speed cap wouldn't necessarily be appropriate
That's why I'm not talking about a speed cap, but about server validation of every player action, like checking whether the player physically can do what the client is trying to do. The sever has it's own game state, which should be the absolute truth for the game, and clients send inputs to say what they try to do with their players. There must be logic to check which moves are legitimate and which are not, that is what server validation does. Imagine a chess server that would check player client's declared moves against the rules of chess, to see which of them are legal, and discard every illegal move attempt. Obviously, checking every "move" in more complex games like DbD is much more difficult, but never impossible, and other multiplayer games implement it successfully.
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the YouTuber Choy made a video explaining
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I ain’t gonna watch a 12 min video of a typical YouTuber (hate the way they speak - nothing personally against this one) when someone can just shortly describe the actual issue.
Apparently though it’s not DbD specific.
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Idk why you would think its not DBD specific when people just fake themselves as others and stream while cheating. Player ID is alredy enough for banns apperantly. As has alredy been explained before these cheaters fake themselves as other people, so the wrong players get banned.
Its highly concerning banns are being handed out without double checking. Also its not about forum banns, i have seen someone mention the forum moderators, but they dont have anything to do with this, the issiue is about ingame banns.0 -
I think that because the YouTube video recommended to be pretty much states that it’s happening in DbD and TXCM
Though, according to past official statements, playerid was never enough for BHVR for a ban and they always said that in-game reports and video evidence both are required to take action
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And yet, people still got banned wrongfully. I want an official statement about that.
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if that happened then yeah I want an official statement too!
Hopefully it will be addressed in the Reddit AMA tomorrow!
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It would be at least something, though i really wish they would spread their information across all plattforms not just Twitter which seems to be the main place.
Its reddit in this case but i have missed on alot of info in the past just because i dont use twitter. And i wont create an account just for a gaming company, other companys do the normal thing and let their playerbase know about things on like… the main page…0 -
Good News 👍
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sounds like corporate talk and a big non-answer. Also "the affected account" implies they have only unbanned one, we alredy know multiple people that had been banned unrightfully, not to mention the dark numbers from people that dont have a community of their own. Its a disappointing answer, they take player safety way too lightly just like with the seizures issiue regarding trickster, where they even claim that there has only been 1 single person reporting it over the coarse of the last 2 months or so, while i just watched a youtuber whos own community has PROOF of multiple tickets sent with EVIDENCE showing the issiue that has been recreated.
People with epilepsy litteraly are at health risk, our accounts are at risk to get banned wrongfully. Whats next? Our wallets?
Seriously BHVR has never disappointed me as much, and right when 2v8 is around the corner, the thing i was so happy for when it announced. But if i cant know if i risk my account by playing, i wont be able to enjoy 2v8 either. I will wait and see for the next view days how they act regarding those big issiues, so far they left a very sour taste. If they dont change their behaviour towards the playerbase i rather invest my money and time somewhere else.
I understand not going in details because of the very cheaters but they alredy DONT acknowledge again it has been more than 1 person. Dont anyone get fooled by their corpo talk.
Also Edit: Thanks still @CountOfTheFog for providing the answer even though i dont trust it, you are amazing. Its almost shamefull we have to have someone from the community post a twitter response on the main page of their own game. As i said, info not spread at all. Still, thanks to you at least we are up to date.3
