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You don't get tunnelled frequently. You are just biased.

135

Comments

  • Phantom_
    Phantom_ Member Posts: 1,361

    Your point being? I'm saying people are either bringing OTR or DS, doesn't matter whichever. It's still a waste to bring both just to "not" get tunneled

  • Prometheus1092
    Prometheus1092 Member Posts: 448

    Im openly a tunneler, and admit to tunneling in majority of games I play. perfectly legit tactic that works most of the time. I find it interesting that the people who complain about tunneling are the same ones that deliberately try to get the killer to chase them while the rest of the team works on gens. They claim to love the chase and looping is the only skill aspect of the game but then complain about being tunneled when they fail at looping. There is nothing wrong with tunnelling, have to have some skill to out manoeuvre the looper. My advice to anyone that complains about tunneling is 1. Hide better, can't be tunneled if you can't be found. 2. Get better at either looping or lose line of sight. (There are many perks that aid in both of these) Or 3. Go the same character as someone else. Very easy to confuse the killer when there are 4 of the same survivor running around.

  • Laluzi
    Laluzi Member Posts: 6,225

    Ah. Going a little further back in the discussion, I think I misunderstood your position. I thought you were claiming that you need to run 2 perks because the game is busted, and not that you shouldn't run two perks. My bad.

  • VantablackPharaoh91
    VantablackPharaoh91 Member Posts: 580
    edited July 3

    This. This is it. This is why crying "tunnelling!" is absolutely friggin' meaningless.

    Tunneling derives from "tunnel vision", as in the Killer only has eyes for you and JUST you to their own detriment. If the Killer is not:

    1. Directly focusing only on you,
    2. From the beginning of the round,
    3. To the point all you can do is get unhooked and be chased and downed, no gens or anything else,
    4. Until you are dead, AND
    5. YOU did nothing to grab the Killer's direct attention or aren't near death already?

    Then it quite simply isn't tunnelling. If it doesn't fall under those five criteria, all five, then "focusing" is the term for what is happening to you. You're being focused, committed to, or you did something to prove to the Killer you're a threat to be removed ASAP. Tunneling is toxic. Focusing on a Survivor isn't, it's tactics.

    I'd argue that chasing someone directly off the hook because you can't find the unhooker, or the unhooker got out of the way or didn't take a hit, is usually accidental tunnelling or soft tunnelling at best, and a mistake you're capitalizing on at absolute worst. Both are understandable reasons to "tunnel" like this.

  • TheSubstitute
    TheSubstitute Member Posts: 2,515

    So, if you're the Killer is focusing on you to the exclusion of anyone else, but has to change targets because they can't find you or so many gens are popping because the Killer is taking so long to chase the wrong target, it's not actually tunneling. Cool, so all we need to do is redefine the definition. That'll definitely take care of all the issues and make the player base happy.

    I'm also glad to see that since tunneling has a much lower skill floor than what is needed to counter tunnelling people just need to play better and that's not an issue. In that spirit we should revert Brand New Parts to when they completed a generator 100%. I mean if you can't find a survivor before they use the BNP the problem isn't that the skill floor to complete the gen was just lowered substantially it's that you just need to play better and learn how to locate survivors. It's not that it gives an unfair advantage over one side; just get good. And who cares if you're having fun because only your fun is important and not the fun of both sides because that makes for such a healthy game and improves player retention.

    The arguments supporting tunneling are so flawed it's unreal. DbD has had a lot of really unbalanced stuff like instablinds, infinite loops, hit validation pre 6.1 DH, maps being changed so Boil Over can't make you unhookable, permanent sabo, etc that were nerfed because of the detriment it had and how little fun it was to one side. It's tunneling's turn now to get the same treatment.

  • adsads123123123123
    adsads123123123123 Member Posts: 1,132
    edited July 3

    If tunneling were not such a sure fire strategy to win, people wouldn’t do it.

    Well, if we look at the stats posted so far when tunnelling is tracked, the vast majority of people don't do it. It only occurs in 3%-10% of matches.

  • VantablackPharaoh91
    VantablackPharaoh91 Member Posts: 580
    edited July 4

    Mispost, ignore this, something didn't quote properly.

  • Pulsar
    Pulsar Member Posts: 20,795

    I am gonna be real with you, we are not gonna come to a resolution since I know the forums and reddit were even more unpopular and non-representative of the player-base back then.

    There's also people in those same threads disputing that definition.


  • TheSubstitute
    TheSubstitute Member Posts: 2,515

    I think I've seen more gaslights in this thread than I would have if I were taking an evening stroll in Victorian London

  • Neaxolotl
    Neaxolotl Member Posts: 1,477
    edited July 4

    I don't even understand if your post is pointed towards me, or someone who claims two hooks is a tunneling, funny

  • Unknown2765
    Unknown2765 Member Posts: 2,482

    With out having the numbers, i would guess that low MMR is more than 10% (based of some of the complaints i see on the forum)

    But that being said, i still think that having only the top 10% and a total score with the top 10% included as 2 separate stats as comparison, gives an odd comparison model.

  • Pulsar
    Pulsar Member Posts: 20,795

    No, but they did not mention anything about ignoring others or killing the Survivor. In fact, a couple specifically mentioned it being hooking a Survivor twice in a row with no one else being downed/hooked between.

    And then many more were the typical comments I'd expect from that time. "Those filthy Survivors use DS, insta, BNP etc etc and expect us to play nice grrrrrr"

    or something to that effect.

  • TheSubstitute
    TheSubstitute Member Posts: 2,515

    It's pointed at you but not just you. You don't get to say what another person's experience is. According to this thread, it's not attempting to tunnel if you focus on taking one survivor out but also down the unhooker for easy pressure and then hook the unhooker if you can't get the unhooked survivor.

    It's also not tunneling I guess if a different survivor bodyblocks chokepoints so the Killer can't get to the survivor they want to down and has to hook someone else.

    It doesn't seem like it's tunneling either if, in one game I recently had, I get two hooked while the Killer is chasing me but all gens get done in that time and the Killer switches to someone else to try to get a kill with NOED in the endgame instead of chasing the already wounded survivor who was looping away from the exit Hamed.

    I guess it's somehow not gaslighting either to be 'Hey @Pulsar, give me your definition of tunneling" "That's great, now show me your games." "Watches games". "Hmm, now that I've seen your games I'm going to say I disagree with the definition and your games don't count and not saying that at the beginning isn't deceitful nor disingenous in the slightest"

    To me, tunneling is attempting to remove one survivor before any others but, if you're smart about it, you'll realize when it's a losing proposition and switch or the survivors will counter the tactics. If the Killer stops because they're not mindless and realizes they were losing that doesn't mean tunneling didn't occur. If the survivors counter the attempt to tunnel that doesn't mean tunneling didn't occur. The definition of tunneling given by those who are saying it's not common is essentially the Killer has to be a single minded bot who can't hook more than one survivor at a time or it's not tunneling. Do you see how ridiculous that sounds?

    As well, it's gaslighting to speak to another person's experience. You can't say what the majority of anyone else's games are since you're not that person. Also, the supposed data supporting the OP is ludicrous and would get you disciplined or fired in any profession that uses statistics. I just had ten solo games where tunneling was used in four of them. Do I get to then claim that tunneling is in fourty percent of games? No, because that's baseless to say that it represents more than my experience on that particular night. It would be beyond ridiculous to claim that extrapolates to all MMRs in all regions. I could ask if you think it's only 10% or less of the time feel free to tape and post 200 solo survivor games and we'll see how often you get tunnelled but that's also silly because the sample size is too small to extrapolate on anyone but you.

    The reality is that there are no stats on tunneling, only BHVR possesses the tools to get accurate stats they're not doing it and this entire thread is nothing but a gaslight. It's not even addressing the issues with tunneling which are:

    (a) The skill floor to counter tunnelling is much higher than the skill floor to tunnel; and

    (b) That represents an unfair advantage for one side up for the majority of skill levels

    The whole frequency thing is nothing but a gaslight as well because if, for example, BNPs 10% of the time repaired a gen from 0 to 100% would that be fair because it's infrequent?

    So, yes, this thread is full of gaslighting. It's not just you though.

  • TheSubstitute
    TheSubstitute Member Posts: 2,515

    I'm not moving any goalposts nor has my definition of what tunneling is ever changed. You can argue over the definition of tunneling with @Pulsar all you want and both of you are just as equally valid to have an opinion on it. The only goalposts moving I've seen was the OP telling Pulsar to post videos and then disagreeing at the end result what tunneling is instead of at the beginning.

    It is gaslighting to tell people who do experience a lot of tunneling they don't actually get tunnelled. You don't know what their experience has been as you're not them and you can't speak to their experience anymore than they can to yours. Nobody knows what the actual incidence of tunneling is since the only entity that could get data over all players is BHVR and they're not doing it.

    Unless you disagree with those last two sentences then this entire thread is just a giant gaslight and telling people who say they see tunneling a lot needs a lot more than a 'well, that doesn't happen to you because I say so' to not be gaslighting.

    Also, if you think tunneling is completely fine explain what part of '(a) the skill floor to counter tunnelling is much higher than the skill floor to counter; and (b) a much lower skill floor for one side but not another is an unfair advantage' do you disagree with?

  • C3Tooth
    C3Tooth Member Posts: 8,266

    Just my input why tunneling is easy & effective

    • Usually cut off chase time by half (keep chasing one injured survivor instead of other survivor, healthy one)
    • Doesnt need sense on finding a survivor to chase, they only need to go back to hook noise bubble.
    • Take a free hit that they do not earn (a teammate or two throw themselves between the chase)
    • Free pressure that they dont need to put (a teammate or two leave Gen to take a hit for tunneled survivor)

    Honestly, I dont think average killer able to make multiple chases against healthy survivors, while spreading pressure and self earning a hit. Most killers arent good, just like most survivors.

    Killers always mistake between survivors are so great they have to tunnel ; and they're so bad they cant do anything but tunnel. Most thinking they're on the first case.

  • Pulsar
    Pulsar Member Posts: 20,795

    18/60,000,000 is not enough to proclaim your absolute correctness lol.

  • TheSubstitute
    TheSubstitute Member Posts: 2,515
    edited July 4

    No, what was said by @Neaxolotl and I quote was "Come on, there's no denying the fact that tunnelling isn't common in practice" That's gaslighting and disingenous. You have no way to tell if tunnelling is common or not over the entire DbD community. You have no reliable statistics, no reliable data and no way to garner that data.

    You're just focusing on a definition of tunneling that's different than mine because you're gaslighting and don't want to admit to yourself. I can't speak for anyone else but I see tunnelling defined as a Killer trying to remove a survivor first over any other quite often. I'm saying that's my experience but I'm not gaslighting because I can't speak for anyone but myself and I can't say if it's common or not either. Unless you can get the data, which you can't, you can't say that 'tunnelling being uncommon is an objective fact' because it's not and saying that it is an objective fact with nothing but your opinion is gaslighting.

    So rather than deflect because you can't actually rebut my argument please feel free to answer my questions directly.

    (1) How can you speak for other people when you have no reliable data and say tunnelling isn't common when people say they specifically get tunneled a lot? How is doing that not gaslighting?

    (2) If you think tunneling is fine which part of 'Tunnelling has a lower skill floor than countering tunnelling; and if one side has a lower skill floor to accomplish their goals than the other side that represents an unfair advantage' do you disagree with?

    So rather than both of you gaslighting further by referring to a definition of tunneling that doesn't match mine why don't you answer my questions?

    On another note, regardless of your definition of tunnelling, it's also pretty disingenous and deceitful to ask someone specifically to give a definition, ask them to record videos of that experience, and then say after the fact that you didn't agree with the definition to begin with instead of stating that at the beginning. @Pulsar gave his definition and went through in good faith while the OP acted in bad faith and is now saying that doesn't count. That's pretty duplicitous. I'd say Pulsar was gaslit because the OP did not act in good faith and had no intention of letting Pulsar make a point.

    But, aside from that, rather than pointing to things I didn't say in an attempt to gaslight further feel free to answer the questions I asked above. Please don't try to gaslight more by pointing to things I didn't say as that's also pretty disingenous.

  • CrypticGirl
    CrypticGirl Member Posts: 685

    Perhaps people need a visual example of what actual tunneling is, so I've got one right here.

    Interestingly enough, in Scott Jund's survey, he asked which Killer tunnels you the most, I put Wraith. And here I am, getting tunneled by a Wraith…

  • MaTtRoSiTy
    MaTtRoSiTy Member Posts: 1,999

    It was shockingly bad before the DS buff but recently I have noticed a marked decrease in shameless hard tunnelling. I also think part of it is that people playing killer want to have normal matches for the most part, so having someone DC at 5 gens because you tunnelled them is not ideal.

    Anecdotal of course and regions may differ

  • adsads123123123123
    adsads123123123123 Member Posts: 1,132
    edited July 4

    Tunnelling isn't extremely difficult to counter. The solution is simply being better at the game. Good survivors actually want the killer to tunnel them, so they can waste all of the killer's time and allow their team to work on gens uninterrupted. This is how Hens carries his solo queue games and escapes far more than the average solo queue player. See

  • Unknown2765
    Unknown2765 Member Posts: 2,482
    edited July 4

    Obviously hes saying 18/20 in the example, not 18/60,000,000

  • Phantom_
    Phantom_ Member Posts: 1,361

    Oh, I see, no nw! I was discussing the merits of bringing DS over OTR with someone else, who claimed that just because people aren't bringing OTR it equals to them not being tunneled. I bring DS because killers do tunnel more often during this event, but the given stats are not representative of the entire community base at all. It's a correlation, not a causation at best.

    I'll give two examples on my servers that have occurred multiple times before and during this event, which had nothing to do with the killer "wanting pressure" but because of

    1: the characters the gamers were playing (Sable, David & Leon) and

    2: flag charms. On EU servers some people ALSO tunnel someone out because of those reasons. Those gamers have outright said they were doing so in EGC: tunneling someone out for flag charms/characters.

    The above happens less often, in my experience, but it still does happen along with your usual gamers who tunnel for pressure or x/y/z.

    Regardless of how prevalent it is, it would be nice if more could be done about tunneling, be it by giving survivors more side-objectives so that they don't gen-rush, incentivizing the killers to spread hooks, maybe switching up the scratchmarks from the unhooked to the unhooker? So the killer only sees theirs if they are healthy? IDK.

  • Paternalpark
    Paternalpark Member Posts: 663

    The killer isn't tunneling me, I'm just running ahead of them and falling on their weapon as they swing in the air. I'm so bad.

    But honestly Scott was saying this b4 he got his stats. Like the number 23, you notice it and then that's now everywhere. His mmr is high(my guess) as his team usually doesn't struggle.

    Tunneling isn't an issue if the surivors can unhook at the last second and pump gens. It's when it happens at the start of the game, say first hook.

    I bring Reassurance to stretch out that time.

  • Neaxolotl
    Neaxolotl Member Posts: 1,477

    Isn't doing the gens efficiently still just "being better at the game", though

  • CrypticGirl
    CrypticGirl Member Posts: 685

    That weighs on your teammates, though. If you're being chased and looping the Killer, and teammates aren't doing gens, you lose, no matter how good you are at the game.

  • Neaxolotl
    Neaxolotl Member Posts: 1,477
    edited July 4

    But there is literally nothing you can counter without help of teammates, simply because this game is a team game

    If "just being good" from everyone's perspective is the counter, there is nothing easier than tunneling to counter, no comms needed, no perks needed, just play good and that's it

    Not to mention that doing generators hardly require any skills from the beginning, especially when you don't get chased

  • Choaron
    Choaron Member Posts: 374

    No no, we get tunneled out and we get genrushed by sweaty teams on coms 9 matches out of 10, trust.