DBD definitions
Gen-Rushing - When 3 or more survivors have toolboxes maxed out AND all 4 perks, for those survivors, increase gen speeds.
Tunneling - The killer going for someone that just got unhooled. If another survivor is in view, the killer needs to ignore them and only go for the unhooked survivor.
Tunneling at 5 gens - This is the poor-game-health tunneling in which a killer starts going after a single survivor ignoring other survivors. (This should be fixed by the devs)
Comments
-
Have they even given updates on tunneling recently?
0 -
I'd broadly agree with those two definitions, though I think the definition for genrushing could stand to be a little more lenient. You don't need all four perks to be dedicated to gen speed to genrush, and it's also not "gen speed" so much as perks that enable their toolboxes. Streetwise and Built to Last with two unrelated perks is still a good genrush build, after all.
I'd also nitpick your calling out tunnelling at five gens, because it's not as though tunnelling is any less unbalanced when it happens later in the game, it's just more understandable for the killer to try if they're losing. It's still unbalanced either way, though.
4 -
Gen rushing is also ignoring other game points of interest and "tunneling" the gen. IE leaving someone on hook to stay on the gen, ignoring healing and staying injured or doing a gen in the killers face even if it means you go down. You're essentially ignoring everything but rushing your objective. The same as the killer ignoring everyone and everything but their primary target they want to remove.
People tend to be much more aggressive on calling out the killer tunneling but are totally lenient on the survivor rushing their objective as well.
I don't like tunneling of any kind. However to me you lose the right to complain about tunneling if you're doing your sides version of "tunneling" as well. Like if there's 2 of yall siting on a gen pumping it while injured instead of healing, that looks no different than a killer tunneling someone out to me. You're not looking out for anyone's fun, you're just wanting to win.
3 -
Defining Tunneling as something that any killer could easily do in any game, but defining Gen-Rushing as a super specific thing that can't even happen in most games… just shows a double standard where killers can easily achieve problematic behaviors, but survivors are free to do whatever in most games because the standard bar for problematic survivor behavior is so very very high that it often can't be achieved.
2 -
Gen-Rushing : completing generator above the normal time.
If one survivor complete a generator faster than 90 seconds, that's gen rushing. (unless that survivor gain bonus from 'default' great skill check)
0 -
I mean, it is a double standard, they are different concepts. It's not that one is the equivalent of the other, because they aren't, really. Survivors aren't leveraging some massively unbalanced gap in the base game mechanics when they genrush, they're bringing the best tools possible and getting an unbalanced result because of it.
The equivalent on the killer side would be stacking four slowdown perks and getting unbalanced results because of it. Bringing a specific build that heavily affects one specific area, that's the connective tissue.
There isn't really an equivalent to tunnelling in this regard for survivor, because, well, what basekit gaps are there for survivors to abuse?
2 -
The idea that tunneling at 5 gens is a problem is insane to me because it's literally just a massive skill issue for survivors
2 -
The double standard is that pretty much every "problematic" killer behavior, like camping, slugging, tunneling, 3-gen, etc… is super easy to achieve in any game, by any killer, at any time. It promotes the idea that killers can easily be problematic, and killers need nerfs because they are often being problematic…
…But when pretty much every survivor "problematic" behavior is hyper specific, and can't even possibly occur in most games, it promotes the idea that survivors don't need nerfs, because survivor problematic behaviors are so very rare.
3 -
I agree, tunneling is skill issue on the survivor side. Survivors love to be tunneled when they try looping the killer the whole match while others sit on gens. But when they fail they cry about being tunneled. Maybe don't twirl around in a circle, flashing a light around trying to get the killers attention? I see it so many times "come and get me" then try make a mockery of the killer by literally running circles around them. But when they are caught they expect the killer to repeat the same thing for a different survivor which enables them to win. Nope, sorry but I play my way not how survivors tell me I should play. If you try loop me, your being tunneled and taken out of the game asap
1 -
Idk when/why this broad definition of tunneling became so popular. The only requirement has become "I got unhooked and chased soon". There's so many factors that can effect that and can happen super easily. Even if the killer chases and goes after others in-between the unhook or doesn't chase the survivor again for death hook until much later in the match.
I've seen people complain about tunneling even though no one got targeted to death when they easily could have been.
Post edited by MrPenguin on0 -
Okay, but you've got to actually demonstrate that to be wrong for it to be an unfair double standard.
Broadly, though, it's true. Can you give any examples of problematic survivor behaviour in this vein, that doesn't require specific tools, that would require some kind of nerf?
Killers can tunnel and camp without any tools. Slugging too, but slugging isn't a problem in that vein. In order for that to be an unfair statement to make, you'd need to demonstrate that survivors have some kind of equivalent problem that doesn't require specific tools.
2 -
Tunneling and genrushing complaints are in the same category, it's bad players making an excuse for their loss, no matter how much mental gymnastics people want to do to try and justify their opinion at the end of the day it comes down to them losing and blaming something else other than their own skill.
1 -
Looping... Requires no tools or perks. Never knew how easy it was to circle a killer and eventually move to next pallet and repeat until I tried it myself
0 -
Why are people bringing up skill in the comments? I thought this was about defining something. Anyways, tunneling at 5 gens is just tunneling idk why there’s two definitions. It’s just the best time to do it because the sooner someone is removed the harder it is for Survivors to win. I’d also argue good gen rush squads don’t just bring gen perks tbh. All 4 people don’t need Streetwise or Prove.
1 -
had this exact thing happen in a game last night, was playing billy downed this mikaela hooked her went after someone and as soon as she got unhooked my discordance popped so i chainsaw back to this gen that's a tile away and smack her down because why not at least heal or run if you can still hear the heartbeat.
2 -
What you are talking about is just playing the game. For “Gen-Rushing”, you’re talking about the entire team dedicating their build to rushing gens. Everything else is just survivors playing the game.
The comparable killer behavior is tunnel-at-gen-5.
Neither behavior is seen often, although tunneling-at-gen-5 is more common.
2 -
I think you are treating your definition of gen rushing as objective when it’s subjective and I would argue more people on average consider what I described as gen rushing than what you described.
If you want to say what I described is “just playing the game”, then that’s fine, but then by that tunneling at 5 gens is just playing the game as well if you want to go that route.
0 -
Gen-Rushing is very specific and rarely happens, just like tunneling-at-gen-5.
Normal survivor game play is not Gen-Rushing. Saying it is just devalues the term gen-rushing to mean the same thing as normal survivor game play.
2 -
The basekit stuff that survivors could do to abuse things have been pretty much removed (infinite loops, locker flashlight saves, etc). I think that's a good thing. Now the things that are left require specific perks and offerings and have been weakened (eg Boil Over and map offerings). The only thing that could be considered basekit that needs looking at would be off hook bodyblocking. I'd rather basekit BT come with no collision detection for both sides sake.
The basekit stuff that Killers can do to abuse things have been weakened a bit but not removed (tunnelling and camping) or are unchanged (4 person slug for the win).
I don't know if that helps with your question or not or provides any clarity to anyone but, in my opinion, there is one basekit item left on the survivor side to look at and three to look at on the Killer side (although if tunnelling were taken care of my opinion is that would also eliminate any camping issues).
0 -
To be fair, survivors doing what you describe usually means they shoot themselves in the foot. - A killer doing what you say is killing two birds with one stone. - That's where the major difference between the two is.
The other major difference is that if you don't happen to be a 4 people swf it happens more often than not that you don't get to reset and then don't magically know where teammates are to reset. Or when several people are on the map and it's unclear who is supposed to go unhook; if I'm on a gen on the other side of the map I'll assume it's not me, even if the other two are also on gens they are, by definition, closer. If both of them are injured, however, that changes. - If one of them is not on a gen I will assume they are already on their way. - If they are getting chased without actively being in chase is, however, something I have no way of knowing. The killer doesn't need that kind of clairvoyance to not "accidentally" tunnel.
0 -
It was a rhetorical question, for the record, I already knew that there isn't really anything left for survivors to abuse without bringing specific tools.
That's why it isn't a double standard to talk about it that way, it's just true. The problematic survivor stuff DOES require tools and DOESN'T come up in many matches, whereas the problematic killer stuff (at least the stuff being talked about) doesn't require tools and at least CAN come up much more frequently.
Saying that doesn't mean both shouldn't be addressed, they both should, it just means that the shape of the problem is different and the shape of the solution would also necessarily be different.
3 -
Cool, thanks for explaining. I agree.
1 -
My description of gen rushing is not “normal survivor game play”. That’s a misrepresentation.
2 -
It does not usually shoot them in the foot. They do it for a reason, it’s because it usually works.
1 -
I personally have very narrow definitions for both of these:
Gen-rushing - coming loaded for bear with perks/items that increase gen repair speed and working on them almost to the exclusion of all else. Even then I barely think it's a thing; a term born from some killer players not accepting the in most games a couple gens are going to go really early and that's normal.
Tunneling (everyone's favorite) - Hooking a survivor and then pursuing and re-hooking that survivor until they are dead, to the exclusion of all else. That last part is the key here - they have to actively ignore all the other survs and objectives (other than just smacking someone trying to draw them off) for me to consider it a legit tunnel (you know, like having tunnel vision). The minute the killer starts actively chasing another surv, it's not a tunnel.
And it absolutely has to be three consecutive hooks. If any other surv was hooked in between any of the times you were hooked, you weren't tunneled.
Also, it has to be early in the match, tunneling later in a match to try and salvage it doesn't count. Like the killer came into the match with the full intention of just removing the first surv they find as quickly as possible.
To many people interpret being hooked many times in a short period as being tunneled, but some killer will make you feel like they are constantly on you even while making your teammates feel the same way.
And people like to say that being tunneled is a skill issue (to the degree that actual skill has anything to do with anything in this game, which is not freaking much, but I digress), but the reason a tunnel as I define it feels so bad is that unless the killer is a literal baby potato, you never really have a chance as the surv in that situation. They might throw the game doing it, but they're going to kill you.
Regardless of how "good" you are, if you go into a 100 matches with a killer determined to kill you specifically and will pursue it at all cost, you're dying 95 times, at least. They might lose half those games, but tunneling is almost always effective in eliminating the tunneled.
1 -
Tunneling has also a factor of "even if going for another survivor benefits the killer" (tunnel vision)
0 -
Gen rusing and tunneling is just as boring. They are on the different side of the same coin. And none of them is against the game rules. But I know the frustration on both sides.
Survivors has so many anti tunneling perks, and we might get more, borrowed time basekit upon saving
Killers has many generator slowing perks.
But it all becomes hard if you face as a killer a team of friends who know how to play and apply the right pressure to keep the killer busy while doing gens.
That's why one gotta learn to use and change strategies in game. Most of survivors are alturistic. Slugging and just injure all is a good way.
0
