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Should Hook Stages be visible for the Killer as well?
Comments
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I don't know, it can make easier for killers to tunnel, but honestly without it they can still tunnel, so maybe?
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There has been times where I've accidentally tunneled just because of it not being visible. I do agree with you that if a Killer wants to tunnel, they will regardless of it being visible or not. I can't help but only see this QOL improvement as something positive. I think many can relate to accidentally tunneling due to the non visibility.
I think this change would be good if we want the direction for this game to go in the hook incentivise and a healthier state.
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Should be visible. If people are gonna tunnel, seeing it or not doesn't matter. All this does is help the killers that don't want to tunnel.
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Yeah honestly why not, killers are still gonna tunnel anyway with it or without it. Could be useful to know who wasn't hooked yet, especially when there is 4 man with the same survivor with skins so you can use pain res
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it not like it matter even slightly so go for it.
I think killers who accidentally tunnel is extremely rare but killers who wanna tunnel will do so regardless.
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I don't think so. For every killer that deliberately doesn't tunnel with it, there'll be 5 who never give up a chase on a Survivor because they're dead on hook or whatever.
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As much as I selfishly want this so 8 hooking is easier, I have to agree. I’m afraid it would increase tunneling. Which is something I personally do not mind, but I do acknowledge the reality of how much others dislike it.
Wouldn’t it be something if showing hook states resulted in less tunneling?
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people who focus on tunnelling already remember who they want to tunnel.
what lack of this info prevents is killers making an optimal choice of target in situations where they aren't actively tunnelling (having 5 hooks and always seeing what survivor is dead on hook).
devs apparently dont want killer to always have that knowledge which feels kinda petty.
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I really wish this would happen. There were so many times during the anniversary event where I was trying to 2 hook everyone then let everyone go and I accidentally killed someone because I lost track of hook stages. Plus, if someone wants to tunnel its super easy to remember a single persons hook states, so it wouldn't really make in impact on that.
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A killer who wants to tunnel will do it anyway, and everyone knows that. Being able to see hook stages would lead the killer to target survivors who are dead on hook in the mid to late game. For example, if the killer finds two survivors on a generator and one of them is dead on hook, the killer will go for that survivor instead of the other. However, a killer can already do this by paying more attention to the game, so this feature would just lower the skill floor (which isn't a bad thing). Ultimately, this feature would be a good addition, but it could hurt Solo Q players if killers start targeting dead on hook survivors more frequently.
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This. If someone is being tunneled the killer is more likely to remember who they are anyway in the short term. It just takes one glance at the character section.
I actively go out of my way to try to get multiple people hooked but by mid or end of match I do sometimes forget who's been hooked.
I also don't pay attention sometimes when someone is left on hook for too long and so it would be nice to know they were left until death hook. In my case it would be to not put them out too early but I know for some this would be the opposite.
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Yes.
Anyone who wants to tunnel, is going to have no problem remembering the last survivor they hooked. Hook counter would gove then no assistance whatsoever.
But if you want to maximise your hooks by spreading them out, or want to make sure you activate perks with a 'hook all survivors' prerequisite, or simply don't want to kill someone yet, you have to play these memory games.
The lack of a hook counter is literally making it harder to play fair/healthy, and encourages tunneling.
At the very least, there should be an indication when you go to pick up a dying survivor, that telegraphs if they're on death hook. At least then you could simply choose to slug instead of immediately kill them.
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they're more likely to tunnel if they see it visibly attractive. With no UI, they might forget to tunnel.
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Yeah and sometimes I have accidentally just killed survivors who have reached second stage when I was intending to go for hooks.
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The sad thing is, to tunnel you only need to be able to count to 3. But rotating hooks between 4 Survivors to 8 hook everyone before somebody dies is obviously a little more complicated.
With everything else to keep track of, I gave up trying to 8 hook a long time ago. I simply don't have the mental bandwidth to spare when I'm playing Killer. Taking a green/ebony mori along can help you track death hook Survivors, but pretty soon with the upcoming finisher mori rework (please don't BHVR, I'm begging you), I won't even be able to use that.
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Visible hooks will help people NOT to tunnel, and tunnelers will not be affected because they only needs to memorize hook state of a single person
Those who forget to tunnel is never a hardcore tunneler and non issue anyway, incompetent tunneler is never a problem
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I would let killer see that UI.
If i want to tunnel survivor number 2, i will tunnel that one and forget about tue others. Easy to remember "Tunnel Meg" for example.
If i want to spread hooks is harder to remember everyone else. I hooked meg once, jake twice and forgot how many times i hooked Dwight. Harder to spread hooks if i forgot someone.
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I'm unsure of how this could increase tunneling at all, honestly. Tunneling is something that is 100% intentional, and almost impossible to do accidentally (Injured clone squads are really the only way I can think of to accidentally tunnel someone). You can't really accidentally chase someone who was just unhooked. The only way to tunnel is to ignore everyone else and try to down the same person again.
Running into the same person after they've left the area or after you've chased other people or kicked some gens is a bummer, but it's not a tunnel.
I've wanted visible hook states for killers forever. I've accidentally killed people far too many times due to thinking they were on 2 but they were really on 3. I always feel like a jerk when it happens.
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your misunderstand my point. no UI creates inefficient tunnelers. The only people that are efficient tunnelers are tunneler that remember to tunnel and play around tunneling. Putting UI will make casual tunneler into hard-core tunnelers.
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or how about we stop with the hand holding and actually require game sense? Both sides already have UI prompts, aura reading etc that help out a ton. Let people have to use their brain every now and then please.
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Probably should remove hook counters for Survivors too so that everyone can use their brain equally right?
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Personally, yes.
Though I don't think BHVR wants to do that, and wants the killer role to be more ruthless, therefore no hook states and having the killer go after whoever they see. Which is perfectly fine for what this game is, but unfortunate for us who want to avoid tunneling accidentally.0 -
I’d be okay with that. Only things I would definitely want to keep on the survivor side are the chase claws and gen icons for solo q purposes.
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Game sense =/= memories.
I can guess where 2 survivors healing each other without any tracking perk while the 3rd survivor unhooking the 4th. But I cant remember if a Dwight hooked twice.
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Memory/keeping track of what’s going on in the match is absolutely part of having game sense.
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Basically only outcome when it comes into play would be when killer used "chase and hook everyone I find" and then get low on gens, they can see who should be their next target. But at that point killer didn't really tunnel, no?
Otherwise I would definitely want it, I usually try to go for 8 hooks, but it can get difficult with multiple same survivors, or some killers where I switch chases a lot (Legion, Wraith).
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Funny is you try to require game sense from someone who tries to play "nice".
If I go tryhard, I don't need to remember anything but one skin/nickname…
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I think people need a reminder that tunneling isn't downing or hooking the same survivor, but specifically targeting that survivor.
But regardless. With the amount of info and assistance the game has, I don't think showing a hook tally would change much.
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On release of the Hook HUD I wanted it visible, then I wanted it not to show due to tunneling, but I've leaned back to just show the individual hooks states now. Tunneling Killers are going to know their 1/2 tunnel victims outside of a mentally AFK Bubba sawing down the basement stairs. I think implementing a real basekit anti-tunnel would necessitate showing who you aren't tunneling for newer/weaker players.
I mean in most cases people not intentionally taking aggro but using DS/OTR are tunneled, its kinda the definition if they are anti-tunnel perks being used.
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This. I'm normally pretty good at keeping a running tally in my brain, but it starts to fall apart in games where people have been flashlight saved, slugged, when there was a flurry of activity where I was pressuring and downing several survivors at once… or the worst, if I didn't notice when someone hit second stage. The feeling of ultimate betrayal…
I can see this making survivors on death hook more appealing targets to killers who otherwise weren't paying attention, but tunnelers are already quite aware of what they're doing. This might help them if there's clones (not just outfit but name, too), but there's a lot less to remember when you tunnel than when you're trying not to.
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